VigilNavyCPO

FOS - Fund our Salary

One of the reasons I am stepping back from active membership is the constant need to fund our professions. My Council does not like to accecpt any donation unless it is in CASH. In the last 7 years I have personally donated over $8,000 worth of dishmachine parts and chemicals to my Councils two camps, why, because my sons were heavily involved in the OA and it was a way to help. This was all off-book donations that I did not ask fo recogniation or claim on my taxes. I have tried to donate the following over the last 7 years, a new float for waterfront, cook's cabin for a campsite, commerical dishmachine for the dining hall at one camp. In each instance I have gone thru the proper channels and been told no, please just donate the money so we can fix what we want too. I say BS, they want money so that they can shave 20% off the top to fund thier salaires. Last year I arranged for a used dishmachine (worth $3,000) to be donated to Council, the only rule was I could not remove it from the nursing home loading dock. This d/m would cost $10,000 new. This involved permission from the nursing home, nursing home kitchen mangement company, camp ranger, camp director, Council Scout Executive, and Camping Committee. For the Nursing Home and mangement company, lawyers were involved to determine who would get tax bennies. After two weeks of waiting for the camp ranger to pick up the machine, and several calls and three visits to the Council Office begging Council to pick up the machine, the health inspector required the machine to be moved. The maintence man called a scrap metal guy and removed it that day. Fall out - I was given a written warning by my manager to no longer help BSA, this hurt him as he is a Eagle Scout. My company compensated the kitchen management company with $5000 worth of product to offset the loss of tax credits due to the non-donate. I told off the SE that if I had a $10,000 (or even $3,000) check with BSA's name on it, Council would send a DE and take photos.

Look, It's not that I do not think it's a good idea, but again, why not effective now? Answer, because we need to sell out the old books first, then we will required all to have a copy of the new book for the next level of advancement. Way more money to be made this way. There are currently too many profit centers in what is a "non-profit" and too many changes being made by Irving without input from us on the ground.

Well,

This is the straw that has broken the camel's back for me. It is time to be done. This is not the program I have been with for 43years, and now it is time for me to go as I am too bitter over this, and banned use of wheelbarrows and Radio Flyers, and $75 tins of popcorn.

I thank all of the great Scouters I have known thuout the years, and wish sanity will return to the program I love.

R/

ETC(SW) retired

Will not have to have local event coordinator require the new forms, my council (Green Mountain) is already requiring for next year. All current unused forms are to be destroyed.

from council website:

Medical Form Update

An updated Annual Health and Medical Record (AHMR) will be available to Scouts everywhere Sept. 3. The 2012 AHMR revision will have several noticeable changes. In an effort to support the BSAs All Markets Strategy, we have developed a bilingual format. As you know, accurate medical information is vital to keeping Scouts safe and healthy at all Scouting events.

This new format will make it easier for councils and volunteers to have a completed AHMRas required for all participants. In addition, we have included information regarding the Summit Bechtel Reserve in preparation for the 2013 National Jamboree and its 2014 program. The early release of the revised AHMR (initially, it was planned for a December 2012 launch) will support the jamboree medical team by enabling all jamboree participants the chance to submit their medical information on the revised record as early as possible.

One other feature is a scanable Part C, a pre-participation physical that will facilitate electronically capturing key data for faster intake at large events and camps. As always, careful planning went into the development of the updated version, with input coming from councils, volunteers, and the Health and Safety Team. These revisions do not include any changes to BSA policy and will benefit everyone in Scouting, no matter what adventure is being planned. The revisions will also be reflected in all supporting documents such as the AHMR FAQ page. Once the bilingual AHMR and its supporting materials are launched Sept. 3, any older printed versions should be destroyed.

Please download the form from the following link, www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/ahmr.aspx Youll always find the most current information on that Web page.

Long Trail

ROUNDTABLE meets Second Tuesday of each month (September - June)

Queen of Peace Church , RR 2, Danville, VT 05828

Time: 7 p.m. - 8:30 P.m.

What: Do we do? First we have FUN. Get Questions Answered... Ideas to take back and use in your UNIT. Training in some area of importance to help units leaders.

Who: Experienced Scouters welcome any New people to pass on their knowledge and offer help

http://www.scoutingvermont.org/LongTrail/Roundtable/

Jut gotback from spring camporee,showed new tools rule list to several Troopleaders and District personnel. They all think I waspulling a late April Fool's joke on them. Several said, "Just another rule fom National to ignore"

What are we teaching Scouts? Maybe it's time to start a BP Scouts troop in my area.

ps, the lashing outlook platform at the camporee was 6.5 feet tall, but the saftey officer insisted it was "4 feet"

"The key is that it's the end of his journey as a scout.

Off yeh go. "Advancement and the Eagle Rank are a Method not a Goal". 100 times. Longhand, no usin' the computer!

The end of a lad's journey as a scout should never be about Eagle. It should be about friendships and good times had, and lookin' back at how much he's learned and lookin' forward to where he's goin' to take those lessons."

Problem is that only in America have we distorted the values by adding scolarships and the NEA that a Scout can only get by being a Eagle. Then we further distort (at least in my neck of the woods) by having LDS Troops that have 14 year old Eagles that do not meet the camping requirements for the OA. Throw in all the Adult run manscout Troops who also "arrange" Eagle path in 4 years so that it is out of the way for High school, and you see why this is a sad joke. Maybe this is why National is pushing for each Troop to have each Scout advance one rank per year.

As a retired Navy CPO who spent the last three years as a recruiter, I can tell you getting into a military academy is not easy. I can see why the Scout whould not want to do both at the same time. This is a perfect example of why so many feel that Scouting has poor record on what Eagle mmeans from Troop to Troop. I bet if this young man was part of a manscout eaglemill troop he would of made Eagle by his 14th birthday, but because he is part of a troop with leaders who "put it on the boy" he will have to live with his choice of going for Eagle or serving his country. If all this young man needs is a POR, then this is just sad.

My take on Woodbadge and Leadership skills. Great program overmarketed. I am not a Woodbadger, so I am considered a outsider at roundtable, as if my thoughts do not count, because of a lack of knots on my neck. I have been told many times that I "need" woodbadge, because it's for the boys. I am a retired CPO who spent 18 years at sea, having gone thru CPO training and taught CPO Leadership training (3 months intense hazing). I have been in Scouts for 40 years and have been successful at all levels of Scouts (Cub, Boy Scout, OA, ASM, SM, ACM, and again ASM), and yet at roundtable I am "not from VT" and not Woodbadge. My youngest son ages out this coming year, and I will fade away.

100% Eagle.

One reason I have trouble with the LDS program is that a LDS Troop locally does have 100% Eagle by age 15. Do they earn it, no. This also has the effect of lowering the perception of the value of Eagle for non-LDS Scouts in local non-LDS Troops. (Why work hard when little Johnny gets it for showing up at a meeting every Wed?) I know Council knows of these issues, but number of Scouts (& money) LDS brings them causes them to look the other way.

Recently at the OA Fall Fellowship I heard that our Council Camp is moving towards no tents at summer camp. Troops will have to bring their own tents for the week. As the Camp Director was at the weekend, I asked him about this policy. He claimed that the Scouts this past summer were surveyed and asked if camp money was spent on tents or program, that the Scouts all wanted "program". Also he stated that canvas tents are too expensive and that all summer camps are "trending" towards BYOT (Bring your owm tent). I wonder if this is a local trend and how other scouters feel about BYOT to summer camp. Thanks for your input.

Thanks all,

All good points. Yes, the grass is not always greener on the other side, we just wish for a more boy oriented District. The Council seems disorganized and only concerned about raising more money.

There are already a couple of Troops locally who do not "play" with any District events, we are going to reach out to them to organize some multi Troop events.

(This message has been edited by vigilnavycpo)(This message has been edited by vigilnavycpo)

Hi,

Just a thought, recharter is coming up, and another ASM joked that he wished we could recharter with a different Council because of all the friction between us and all the aspects of District and Council. FYI, the SM and CC also would like to change if we could. We are a located near the state line "border" between Councils and the other Council appears to be alot more functional. I have taken the position that we cannot pick and choose Councils, but wish to hear other members takes on the subject.

Funny story about my youth. When I was a 17 year old waterfront instrutor at Camp, me & another instructor wanted to do the mile swim. We asked the Waterfront Director if we could and how do we do it, and he told us that a bouy out in the lake was the mile swim bouy, and if we had a row boat with two lifeguards follw us, we could do it sat after the Troops had left camp for the week on our own. (It was the 1st year for this waterfront director) We decided to team up and do it together for moral support. That sat we got in the water and swam & swam, we both wanted to quit half way, but decided not to be chicken and we both finally finished it. The Camp director was laughing the next day when we told him the story about how we had finished the Miler, turns out the bouy was not 1/2 mile out in the lake, but a full mile out, we had really done two miles.

Thankfully they gave us both two mile swim patches.

captainron14,

It depends on your Lodge rules, but in the lodges I have been a member of, the Trader patches are not sold to be worn but anyone. The NOAC members wear the "restricted" NOAC patch that they "cannot treade" and the Lodge sells the traders to collectors to make money. In my Lodge your son would be expected to wear the ugly Lodge patch he was given at his Ordeal.

You could have him check with his Chapter Chief and see what his Lodge expects him to wear.

Hi

Does anyone know if National has a policy for min Tent size for camping. Our Troop is looking at buying new tents, and a fellow ASM mentioned at the Committee meeting that National had a 70 square feet of floor space per scout requirement. I do not believe this is true, and have been unable to find any guidance at all. And of course now our committee will not allow us to buy new tents because of this unresolved issue.

Thanks

YIS

Vigilnavycpo

9. Bicycle Accessories

Every bike needs a horn or bell and reflectors (front, back, and sides). Items should be carried only in baskets, in saddlebags, or on a rear carrier rack. If you must ride in traffic, a bike- or helmet-mounted mirror is recommended. For long trips, a bike-mounted container for drinking water is recommended.

My Troop is getting into Mountain biking. I realize it is a guideline, but horn or bell on all bikes? Am I crazy, or are you going to honk to get the moose to move?

Any comments?

http://scoutingvermont.org/News/NorrisEPAPatch

I guess this is "When life gives you lemons, make lemonade"

Current plans are to reopen Camp Norris in the fall, but there is growing concern that the Council should just bite the bullet and purchase a new camp more centrally located to the whole state.

from first post by Beavah - "Da biggest error is that they all tend to want to do what they did as unit scouters - set up systems and be in charge."

fgoodwin wrote -"As BSRT Commissioner, a former district training chair and former UC, I've never considered district jobs of a "higher order" or somehow superior to unit level positions."

This is the rubbing point of the post. If you have good decent Scouters at District, the system can work. I wish I worked with you locally fgoodwin, THANK YOU for all you do for Scouting.

If you are stuck with Scouters on "power trips" or believe they have been elected for life, then you stay active at the unit level until your family and friends children are out of the unit. Then you leave the program and move on to the Masons or some other activity more fulfilling outside of Scouting.

In my current District they (the POWERS that be) are actually debating on when to switch the District to the new uniform. I pointed out to them that National's policy is "Once Official always Official" and that as a youth in the early 80's it took 5 years for the uniform switch to settle down. "Their" response is the District can make a rule as to which Uniform a Scout HAS to wear at District events. If they do this, you can bet that's the last time alot of troops will show at any District event. Power Trip indeed.

And yes, my youngest is 15, so I'll probably be active in Scouting for maybe 3 to 6 years (unless we move )

Dratted double post, second one is edited better.(This message has been edited by vigilnavycpo)

The Pack I belonged to in Hampton Roads had a mandatory policy. One parent in the family was expected to sigh up for a Pack duty. At the Fall Family Campout held in Sept, a large poster with all "duties" was placed out for sign up. Several notebooks had one page descriptions of what the duties were, ie set up tables for Blue & Gold, Popcorn Chair, etc... It worked well. It helped that the duty sheets were very well written on exactly what was expected of you.

This large pack (80 Cubs), also had a mandatory fundraiser per Cub scout goal. You either sold $200 worth of popcorn for the Pack, or you stroked a check for $50. About half the families wrote the check. This allowed Pack dues to be low, and also allowed poorer families to "fundraise" their dues. If you sold >$300 popcorn, your dues for the year were paid.

Remember, this was almost 20 years ago, in a small (popualtion) district in a very rural council,but it colors my reactions to this day. It's one reason I only like to work at the unit level.

We did not even have a paid DE, but "shared" one with another much larger (ie richer) District. The Roundtable Commissioner was a "One man Band". Besides, who has'nt seen a leader who thinks they have been elected for life? A OA Lodge Advisor that's working on his 20 year pin, etc . ...

Being in New England there are several Council's Scout summer camps within a three hour drive. My current Troop has a policy of attending our local Council's Camp every other year, to provide the Scouts a sense of "homebase" and let the Scouts choose "within reasonable distance" where to go alternate years for a sense of adventure and change. The downside of this policy, is the local camp has recently had a string of bad camping seasons (ie program) and our Scouts currently do not want to return. Some local Troops near ours refuse to attend locally due to poor program, which I realize will not help the local camp recover. Some long time Scouters locally blame Council for how poor the local camp is in program and resources, saying for many years council has used camp as a cash cow, and they are willing to promote other Council's camps because they are run better.

Oh, one more thought, my old SM believed in spreading the work load of the Troop around onto all the adults. Once, when I asked him why he had assigned a job to a ASM, becasuse this ASM did not do a good job. I wanted the job assigned to a ASM I KNEW had made done it well.

My SM told me he needed more then one ASM who could do the job correctly.

He then told me this story.

There was a town in which lived a "One man Band". Every Sat people would come from far and wide to see and hear this man play. The town was delighted & benefited greatly. One week the man died. No more did people come to town to hear him play.

The lesson, one man bands can be very good, until he dies. Then you do not have a band.

Eagle92 wrote "One problem I've seen recently is that you have experienced district folks discounting the ideas of newer members. I've seen folks on the district level for 10+ years state "we can't do that" and We've doen it before and it didn't work" etc, etc. One meeting that I missed almost had a fight break out between two of the members over how to run a camporee!"

I have a thought, maybe some Districts have problems because of current adult volunteers running them think they have been elected POPE for life.

For example, when I was a young adult ASM, the SM asked me to attend RT for him due to his increasing work schedule. I attended all winter and I believe the RTC never really believed my SM had to work, and never took me seriously (I was only 21.)

The Roundtable Commissioner was a been there, done that type of guy. Spring Camporee was ALWAYS on Mother's Day weekend, period. It was suggested at RT that the date be changed to before or after that date (due to feedback from Troops that no longer attended the Camporee). Over half the District Troops did not attend Spring Camporee. The planning group liked the idea, but the Roundtable Commissioner stated no, it will always be on that date so Mom can relax with Dad & son out of the house for the weekend, end of discussion. That year my Troop joined the "Outlaw" section of the district and we started attending the alternate Outlaw Spring Campout held the weekend BEFORE Mother's Day. (We even had patches.)

This Scouter in question had been Roundtable Commissioner for 20 years back when I was a youth, and I know he had the job for at least 10 more years before he was finally talked into "retirement". Except for his myopia on the Spring Camporee, he was a very good Roundtable Commissioner.

Yes, once he got done, the next year the District held a Spring Camporee not on Mother's Day weekend for All the troops.

I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but I think 3 to 5 years should be the max any volunteer should be allowed to stay in his job, maybe with a one year turnover to mentor replacement. This would help prevent the stagnation (or prevention) of new ideas.