Uncle Bob

I would like to share a work in progress. Getting back to basics and reintroducing Scouting as many of us old timers remember.

Almost two years ago I followed my son and the Webelo den I was leader with to their current Troop. They have a Scoutmaster the boys adore and he is great with them. The only problem this Troop was lacking direction and has Scouts that are unable to do the basic Scout skills holding rank of First and above.

After several problems with modern youth attitude several of us met and decided enough was enough. The boys holding leadership position did not want to run for office again and the unit was turning into a social club. Almost all said it was a waste of time.

Open mouth insert my big foot. I have pushed to get back to basics and accountability. The Troop is headed back to progress. These boys will truley run this unit and they will have a road map to follow.We have first off mandated the use of the program guide from 'Woods Wisdom'. Made wearing of the uniform mandatory(no blue jeans- Scout pants or similar color style), attending of JLT by new officer required, established guidelines of behavior, and made each Scout accountable.

So far so good.The Scouts like it so far. I will post results of the new 'old' direction we are headed, both good and bad.

Have great day everyone

I was lucky enough to have been able to copy this off the TV. I enjoyed this back then as a Scout and enjoy it still. I think this would make a great addition to adult leader training. Lem seems to be the Scoutmaster we would like to be. Now if my cousin would return my copy...

I wonder if 'Snake' learned any of his skills at summer camp...

Have a great day gentlemen.

Good morning Paul.

Having been in a simalar position years ago my heart goes out to you. You are to be commended for bringing Scouting to your comunity. It would be great to see all Scouts uniformed but as you illustrate it is not always possible. My point was to those units that can afford to be uniformed but chose not. They seem to be the ones that protest the most.

Congratulations to your Webelos. I wish BSA as a whole could come up with a way to make Scouting more atainable for all and that Councils in your situation could get more help.

Keep up the good work.

YIS, Uncle Bob

Amen gentlemen !

Uncle Bob

eisely

You have spoken the words of a great many. In days gone by you would be called wise and your words wisdom.

Gangbangers! I like that. Hey National lets move to a short along the lines of BDU's. These are mainly a field wear item and they need to be made functional.

Uncle Bob

Good evening everyone. I would like to put my two cents in on the cost and quality of the current uniform.

First off I would like to say that the lack of proper uniforming of the Scout troops in this country is first and foremost the fault of the adult leaders. Cost and quality is not the reason, I will address this next, the real issue is as a population we have become a nation of slobs and our priorities nedd adjusted. It seems to be more important to look cool or comfortable, wearing our clothing in a sloppy manner. I see this everywhere, malls, church, civic meetings, the kids dress the same the adults do or the 'adult' has not stressed why in certain sitiuation appearnce does matter. It shows respect to others, self, and the importance of the place we attend.

In response to Tinypj, thank you for your service to our nation. Yes we need to keep the cost down and I'm sure you are aware the cost of gov't. issue uniforms is the price Uncle Sam pays its vendors. No mark up or profit needed because we supplement the cost to our service men and women via our tax dollars. The reason BSA went with military surplus had nothing to do with cost. In this time of our nations history the Army look was 'cool' to the nations youth. Scouting was founded by a military man who knew the benifit of a uniform. Military surplus was about the only durable goods in the market place and because of the color, lent them selves well to the out of doors. The added benifit was because it was surplus it was inexpensive. Or was it? I have read the cost of a 'Scout' uniform was about $5.00 and the average family income was $112.00 per month.(4%) If we were to say that todays average family income is $2,000.00 and the cost of a uniform is $100.00 that makes it (5%). Compare that to other goods. I would like to say I agree with John (jbrogan JR) That the design is not the best or functional in the field. And as far as Nationals cut, I don't know what it is but I do know I have exchanged items purchased at Scout shops in other states with out a problem. Yes They do make a profit. Bob Russell rightly pointed out that they cater to a limited market. Remember in BSA early history we did not have Scout shops and Scout supplies only started to appear in department stores in the early thirties. Scamp and others say they miss those beloved cargo pants and yes the new pocket location baffles me, but if sales on this item was strong they would still be around. Yak-Herder hit the nail on the head when he said uniforms are needed. Our organization is judged on many levels and being neat and uniform sends the bigest PICTURE. As far as the quality my uniform has served me well in the seven plus years I've owned it. The reason the new waist band! Most of us Scouters and Scouts don't do a very good job with the 'keep my physically strong' part of the Scout Oath. As for the quality of the awards, I dont think there is a whole lot of difference in quality. I collect Scouting memorabilia and have seen some older awards that could have been made better.

All said, I think each one has a good point but are these points or excuses why uniforms (complete) are not worn valid. I often read how Scout units from poor parts of this nation find ways to be properly uniformed. I also hear the most complaints from families that can afford the uniforms.

I know how hard it was for me to earn the money needed as a youth to buy the uniform. It can be done if we make it a priority.

Maybe someone out there can tell us all how we can lobby National to get the Scout uniform functional, of better quality, and affordable. I would sign on to this idea and do my best to support it.

Thanks for lending an ear.

Uncle Bob

Pass the tartar sauce please.

I'm sorry this is mean but I couldn't resist.

Hey I forgot that I read a story of a mean Scout who repopulated a local lake with fish that led to the repopulation of other wild life that led to ... How cruel!

Isn't life interesting?

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actions do speak louder than words.

Wake me when the nightmare is over.

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HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP

Can anyone help me find a copy of 'Follow me Boys'? E-bay had a copy but wow $75.00 was way too steep for me.

Thomas Heavey from Tacoma Wa. posted on 'Embers' 4/25/01 that his local cable network will be showing 'Follow me Boys' on the Disney Channel 2 am PST.

This movie prompted me and others to join the Scouts. I hope it is as good as

I remember. If not don't tell me.

Popcorn anyone.

Uncle Bob

The Troop I am associated with allows older Scouts First Class or higher to sign off on rank requirments. (works well) For Star and above the Scoutmaster takes the time to make sure that if a Scout needs something signed of it is done.

Now for your advancement chair person. You know those those pesky gnats that always seem to be in your face on long hikes ...

Well maybe she just needs a little help.

Good luck.

YIS

Uncle Bob

Good evening. I too find it hard to belive what some so called adults will do. The world is upside down, what was once right is now wrong, go figure.

I'm not sure that anyone is more pro uniform than me. Here comes my two cents. Scouts in my opinion should NOT wear uniforms when fund raising. This includes the selling of that great popcorn from Trails end. A Troop T-shirt is ok and so is displaying posters or other aides. I have developed this view from the writings in my earlier Scout Handbooks. I do belive that the uniform SHOULD be worn at all other Scouting activities. I want to make something clear in this statement. Blue jeans are not part of the Scout uniform, never have been. Class 'b' is what some ex-service person decided to tag non uniform Scout wear and according to military tradition it either is reg. or it isn't. (When was the last time you saw a Marine in 'uniform' but wearing jeans? or a baseball, football or soccer player in 'uniform' wearing jeans.) So I guess Scout shirt with jeans is class 'b'?

I have heard all the excuses as to why boys are not wearing the complete uniform as outlined in the Handbook and Insignia guide. As far as I'm concerned I have heard them all and none hold water. I have been saddened that Scouts doing good works are not being appreciated by others because of their appearance. The fact is most people, if we are honest with ourselves, judge most things by what they see. I have been told by non- Scouters, 'why should we take you serious if you don't take yourselves serious?' Somewhere in these forums I belive I read something along the lines 'would you follow a rag tag bunch'.

I have seen Scout units in complete uniforms on activities and observed that people respect them and reacted to them differently than they did to units that were 'rag tag'. I also observed the Scouts themselves acted differently. The Troop I am associated with has patrols that wear the uniform and those that do not. Guess which are better behaved?

Now for those people out there that have a problem with us and our values, they will stand before their maker and he will judge them. I sleep well at night I wonder if they do?

Stick to your guns, wear the uniform properly and show the pride you have in Scouting, its values and accomplishments.

YIS

Uncle Bob ES73

Good evening everyone. Thanks for letting me vent. It was very interesting to read the replies, some very good points. Well I would like to take amoment and share something with everyone. Today I was leaving the local Wally Mart and on the way out I noticed a man that I guessed to be about 70 helping a woman probably 60 pick up some bags she had dropped while going out the doors. I guess the automatic door was out of order. While helping her pick up the bags I overheard him say to her that he would carry them to her car. She said this wasn't neccesary and his reply stopped me in my tracks. "I have to he said. I've been a Scout for 52 years and thats what a Scout is suppose to do'. Wow! It gets better yet. I then proceeded to walk to my car and noticed about 20 feet in front of me a womwan I would guess to be in her late thirties or early forties and a young man somewhere between 15 and 17. He had bags in both hands while the woman had bags in one hand while pushing a shopping cart with a baby in it with the other. They were talking to each other as a son would with his mother and a mother with her son. They stopped at a blue Monte Carlo and the young man put the bags in the trunk. At this point I was about 10-12 feet away and noticed the woman reaching into her purse and offer the young man some money. I was parked next to them and took my time opening my car door when I overheard the young man say "thank you butI can't, I'm a Scout and did this because I wanted too'. Double WOW! As he walked passed me to get into his car our eyes met and I guess I had a big grin because he smiled at me as he passed. Have you ever been in a situation where you are just speachless? I sure was. Two men seperated many years by age, on the same day, in a matter of a few minutes, where joined together in the Scout Spirit. If I wasn't there I would not have believed it. I guess this was the Lords way of letting me know the Scout Spirit is alive and well after all.

Sorry folks I need to vent. What has happened to Scout Spirit? In the five years I've been a Scouter I have not seen much of it. Let me start of by saying that I realize everyone has their definition of 'Scout Spirit'. I think if we compare it to the ideas the founders had regarding 'Scout Spirit' a lot of people will find they are way off base. From the adults on down something has gone wrong. I have heard people at all levels complain of policy from National and Council not suiting them. Oh, we dont wear uniforms because ... what is this nonsense, Comunity service... sure we do what is needed to get a Scout rank requirment. I'm sorry I was rude or interrupted or talked back but... where did respect go? The reason this Life Scount can't tie knots... I thought they had to know as part of a rank requirment some where down the line. Yes he is the JASM but only so he can have position for Eagle... so its ok for him to be late and not interact with his Troop. All Scouts need to follow directions or else... except the Scouts who parents are leaders or committe members. I dont want to go on this @!&*%# hike... its ok to talk this way and express your views. The OA members promoting the values of OA membership during an Ordeal... will sleep inside a building instead of under the stars and show our true commitment to campership. As an adult who has great self importance I... dont think rules and regs apply to me. I know how he acts at home and toward others, but he shows spirit at meetings(he shows up)... I thought Scout Spirit was a reflection of the Scout Oath and Law and took place 24/7. Yes we know he is only in Scouts because mom and dad said so and that he will not help other scouts... but he just passed his Eagle Board of Review. Boys today are not the same as they were 90 years ago... really? And on and on....excuse, excuse,excuse. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me the founders had the right idea from the start. What a Scout should be and can be, why they wear the uniform and how it is to be worn, how to treat others, respect for others, country, and self, community service for the sake of service, 'Do A Good Turn Daily', yes sir or yes mam, you are expected to do your best, and be prepared. Tenderfoot a boy learns about scouting, Second Class he learns scouting skills, First Class he puts together both and is finally a 'real Scout'. Star he explores and learns more,what it means to be a good citizen, to be thrifty and why service is important. Life is just that, a Scout for life, learning disipline, responsibility, additional skills and more about himself, almost a man. Eagle, he now puts all that he has learned and is ready to serve, to help others, to 'BE Prpared' and recognizes the blessings of God, ready to be a man. Baden-Powell said in his day scouting didn't make sense and that it isn't for everyone. Perhaps Baden-Powell was right and Scouting doesn't make sense and is not for everyone. Do we as Scouts and Scouters really belive the meaning of the Scout Oath and Law or are they words to use as we see fit. Maybe its time to break camp and go home? I hope not.

Thanks for letting me vent.

I might suggest you contact your local NAPA store. I operate a store in my town and find that no matter how hard I try to use all the promotional items sent to me I always have things left over. Each year I donate toy cars, posters, stickers and banners to a few of the local Packs. Most of the NAPA managers I have spoken with have shown a willingness to do the same. Who knows maybe some free stuff is just a call away. Also one year we were able to get a local racer to donate a couple pair of used slicks. Kept the children not racing busy. Good luck.

The Scouts in my sons Patrol have been together since Tigers and have just finished their first year as Boy Scouts. Two years ago as Webelos they purchased 4 3man dome tents green in color from the local Sports Authority. Sale price $29.99, regular price $39.99. This past summer they were able to purchase the same tent for $39.99. These boys have done quite a bit of camping, over 20 days and nights in the past year. Most of them in these tents. These tents provide plenty of room for two boys and their gear and weigh about 8lbs. I am over six foot and found it ok for me and my gear. After more than two years of use the tents still look good. It also makes a sight for the Patrol to have 5 tents of the same color and style. I have owned and priced tents that were of greater cost and supposed quality and I feel these 5 tents have been a great value.

Our Troop also has a very nice dinig fly. It takes some work to set it up but the one the boys in my sons Patrol uses is smaller and cheaper, takes 10 min. to set up. Guess where the majority of the Troop hangs out on camp outs? The cheap dining fly. (1)8x12 green plastic tarp, (4)adjustable poles, rope and pegs, total cost 2 years ago $69.00. A special note: we have found that if we reinforce the tie down areas with plastic from coffe cans or soap buckets and use them with bungee cords, the tarps will withstand almost any type of weather or wind.

I think that Mike Long hit the nail on the head when he stated,'Unless raised in a family that practices faith, Scouts have no idea what it means to be reverent.' As a youth I had more exposure to religon in Scouting that I did with my family. With the boys I work with I see the same thing. I guess some things never change. I try my best to let the Scouts know of my beliefs. I ask them what they believe and the answers are often priceless. When I first joined Scouting the Scoutmaster told me that I couldn't be a Scout unless I went to church. It wasn't until my family moved from one coast to the other and I matured what it was he was trying to impress upon me. So like other Scouters I feel there is an obligation on our part to introduce Scouts to God, and like Mike said, 'God will take care of the rest'.

Thanks for the reply folks. I'ts great to get different view points. First off I don't think any one person has the 'right' answer but I do have my views and many are shared by my friends who are of different religions. Second my point was if the people who are unhappy with the attack BSA is under want change or preservation they need to stand up and be counted. Third, the issues of politics should be seperate from the program. I too am sadden to see youth groups losing meeting places because of politics. As adults we often allow our agendas to fog our commitment to the boys and program. What ever our position or feelings may be the welfare of these Scouts should be paramount. Happy holidays to everyone.

Old grey Eagle, I recently with help of my wife built a Court of Honor Center piece. We made a copy of the First Class Scout Badge placed it on a zip file, took it to Kinkos had them put it on a black background. Next I had them print to 11x17 on a good paper. Cost $7.50. I then took the copy traced the outline onto 3/4 plywood and cut it out. My wife, watch this poor spelling >>> decoposhed (SIC) the color copy to the wood. The combination of the black background and the finish gives it a 3-D appearance. I imagine you can do the same with the Eagle Medal or Rank Badge. I took the art work from a CD I purchaced from the folks here at Scouter Magazine.

Good Luck

Old grey Eagle>>>>>>>>>> I have feeling you've been around a while. What's the best story to tell at a campfire? One thats been passed down over many years. What's the best patrol flag? One thats worn and experinced. What's the best memories? Ones you can share with younger patrol members before you move on. I remember a time in Scouting when younger boys were mixed in with older ones. I don't ever remember anyone taking advantage of anyone else unless you refer to knowledge. I wish this was still the way but i do have mixed feelings. I joined a Troop with my son and seven boys from his Den. After being with these boys for five years and they with each other, I feel and treat them as nephews and they treat each other as brothers. So you can see my mixed feelings on this. They are happy together but I thnk they would benifit with the old style patrol program. But how do you decide what is best. We asked them if they want to go into other patrols the answer is a BIG NO. Matter of fact newer Scouts to the Troop want to join them. So I guess what I'm saying is how you organize the troop depends on the boys. If the troop is new it's easy and if you have older Scouts have THEM promote having new Scouts join differnt Patrols. Good luck.

Merry Christmas to all and God Bless.

Did I see 'TO wear'? Great we need more of this. If not a member of a Troop join one if a member set an example and, how does that commercial go? Oh yeah, JUST DO IT.

The issue BSA is facing Broward County is one we will all be facing at some point in the not too distant future I'm sure. The solution to this and other moral problems is simple. Stand up for what is right. If everyone one opposed to the immoral behavior the country is being subjected to would get up off their bottoms and pay a visit to our local governments and let them know we are not going to stand for this any longer we might get thier attention. Let everyone opposed to the degrading of our society vote with those who stand the moral high ground and with hold money from those organizations we find offensive we just might get their attention. If people who claim to be in the majority would do what those in a corrupt minority do, push-push-push our values, we may see a positive change. A positive change that would do our children, government, and America people good. Please don't take this a being intolerant or right wing. I'm far from perfect and like everyone has faults but I only know that right is right and the Bible has proven to be the best road map out there. If anyone can give evidence that the country is better off(look at todays children, divorce, drug abuse, crime, TV, movies, news) because we now accecpt what was abnormal as normal, make your case.

I would like to start of by stating I belive in uniforms and that they should be worn correctly and that anything less is just wrong. Next I would like to know why they cost what they do and who designed these new pants? What a waste. First of all I think BSA should have developed (2)styles of uniform long pants. One a dress pair and the second a field pant based on the BDU. (I don't endorse camo.) Kids love them adults love them, they are comfortable and unlike the pockets on the 'new' pant these can hold a lot of neat stuff. Adult; first aide kit, compass, rope, book, bug spray, etc... Kids; frogs, rocks, rope, food, candy, sticks, anything found on the ground, etc... Shorts should be of the field 'BDU' style. The shirts, well I guess they are ok but give us square pockets. How can we contact National and let them know they need to make a change in both style and cost fast. I bet if they eliminate the number of styles they will reduce their inventory, if they change the style more people would wear them, and if you get a handle on the price they will sell more.

Moral Values: Hot topic for sure. BSA set a standard and the high court of the land ruled in the favor of BSA. Let's move on from here and respect the standard and ruling if we really care about the Scouts, or did we forget about them in all this. The Bible teaches this and other behavior is a sin in the eyes of God. The question we should be asking now is how will we account for ourselves when called before our maker.

Merry Christmas and happy holidays. God's blessings on all.

Like many I feel that 13-14 is too young for Eagle. Some of the boys that age with Eagle don't really understand. But I know more set my mind to this I come across two exceptions. Just goes to prove everyone is different. In the 'good old days' we were expected to act look and dress as scouts. We were expected to show what we learned, not just go through the motions. We had to SERVE in the ranks for a period of time. We could not or did not sign off on multiple rank requirments. Today we have more adults involved, as leaders in troops and for merit badges. But I have seen some boys signed off on merit badges 'because they were there'. I think we need to ask is this the right thing and are we cheating these boys. I don't have the answer but if get back to the basics and make this game of scouting more challenging everyone would benifit.

Uniforms. This tool shows the public who we are and what we think of ourselves. First BSA notes in the front of the uniform and insignia guide the policy regarding uniforms. I have seen units develope their own uniform policy; class 'a', class 'b', blue jeans, etc. I believe that there is only one uniform and if we promote anything else it is the same as saying let us make our own rules for behavior and advancement or we can change what we want. I was saddened a few years back when I became reinvolved with scouting to see and hear the public response to Scouts because of the poor image they gave. I've heard several comments about those slobs. Do everyone a service do your best not to stray from BSA guide lines and get everyone into correct uniform. Parents that have children in organized sports know that uniform cost can be high and that most organized sports will not allow a boy to play out of uniform. I have seen first hand that most boys will act different when in uniform if they understand the importance. Good luck