Twocubdad

 

If two scouts were involved, and not parents, would you have the same position?

I seem to recall completing a membership application for the BOY Scouts of America.  We're here to deal with the boys and hopefully help them learn to deal with these situations by applying the Oath and Law.  I would talk with both boys to help them do that.  But I'm not here to teach their parents how to play well with others.

But I didn't volunteer to teach a bunch of adults how to play well with others.  I've been sucked into these situations before.  I may not be smart, but I am trainable.  I won't go there again.

Haven't we been through this before? 

So, Christine, how would you propose to solve this?

First, Pack is correct.  HIPAA doesn't apply.  There is not violation of the law, so take the high horses back to the barn.

Secondly, let's say, hypothetically, that instead of being the Neanderthals we have concluded them to be, the troop leaders here are reasonable Scout volunteers with the best interest of all their Scouts at heart.  Let's further hypothesize that they could be dealing with more issues here than we know.  No matter how thin you make a pancake, it always has two sides.

Can no one envision a scenario where it would be a good thing for Scouters of good conscious, dealing with a problem, to share their concerns and experiences with the leaders of the second troop?  Why do we automatically assume the leaders of the first troop are "poisoning the well" for this Scout.  Why do we assume the leaders of the second troop are too obtuse to take information from all sides and form a reasonable understanding of the issues they will be facing?

Personally, if I'm the leader of the first troop, I'm going to make the call too.  If I'm the leader of the second troop, if I don't get that call I'm going to call myself.  I've done both.  Let's not forget we are all part of the BSA, not independent, competing entities.  Sharing information between units should be a good thing. 

Ding!  We have a winner!  CalicoPenn receives two free passes to the Rotary Club Square Dance this Friday night.  No more calls please.

Honestly, I think some people join Scouts only because it gives them another group of people to whom they can pass off responsibility for their lives.

This should be a den function. Scouts need to be assigned to dens before hand. This gives den leaders the ability to prepare for their Scouts with a roster, be familiar with any special needs, etc. The den leaders should be at their den's location, ready to go, as soon as the first Cubs arrive. They should spend the time getting to know the boys, helping them get settled in, coming up with a den flag, maybe letting everyone make their own nametag, etc.

If the Cubs are twittling their thumbs waiting for the adults to do paperwork, you're doing you need a better plan. There are a number of ideas for handling this covered at National Camping School.

Welcome to the forums, Chief. You sound like my kind of Scoutmaster.

I will say, however, we seem to have had different experiences with MBUs and even summer camp. There are a great number of counselors not as diligent as you or I would like. My experiences are similar to those Bad Wolf describes. Most disturbingly, our council condones such programs -- especially at summer camp -- bemoaning the lack of staff or budget which they seem to believe is an acceptable excuse for short-changing the requirements and the Scout.

Until recently, we Scoutmasters have been powerless to correct such situations. The changes in the Guide To Advancement which allow us to challenge and take corrective action on MBs we feel are clearly unearned is a step in the right direction. (Truth is, I've used this same approach for years, counseling a Scout to be Trustworthy and really complete the badge with or without the counselor.) Unfortunately, National's policy making the SM's authorizing signature on a blue card meaningless is multiple steps backwards. Taking away our ability quietly direct Scouts away from problematic counselors is beyond comprehension. In the past, I simply quit sending Scouts to those counselors. Now, when we have problem counselor, policy is for us to go to council to have that counselor removed. Are most leaders going to burn an otherwise good volunteer and/or supportive parent over this?

BSA policy is written through rose-colored glasses. Everyone is competent and does their job to the letter. That view was embodied in the old committee training video where every committee position is not only filled has a fully staffed sub-committee meeting at their separate tables complete with table tents identifying them as "Finance", "Membership" or "Program". That scene always got a roar of laughter from the crowd who knew the annual fight to sucker someone into handling recharter or that the Program Committee looks a lot like the Scoutmaster.

In reality, no one wants to be the heavy and say no. No one wants to tell a kid their work doesn't meet the requirements. And some are just lazy. Turning a Scout down means they have to meet with them again. And why teach one or two boys the merit badge when in the same time they can teach 15 (quality of instruction or individual sign-off be damned). And for most teenage boys, getting away with something is just what they do. That an adult sign's off on Cooking MB without ever having lit a fire is like winning the lottery. Hey, they adult is in charge and signed off, who is a kid to complain? (And truth be told, I rather like those situations. Makes for a great conversation about character and what's right.)

Forget God, Gays and Girls. The death of the program will come from within. Our brand managers are managing us into irrelevancy.

Oh, our Good Ol' Boys are more than happy to have you "help." But that generally means dealing with Cub Scout stuff, like running day camp and membership campaigns which are beneath them. If by "help" you mean have any substantive input into how district camporees are run, when or where training is held or other decisions important to the Good Ol' Boys, for get it.

It seems to me there is a balance between what the district giveth and what the district taketh. And that balance may vary by unit. As a Cubmaster, my view was the district did a good job of providing a good day camp program (I was the camp director, so duh), holding a fall Cub-a-ree, a marginally helpful Roundtable and arranging for School Night Roundup with the local school district. In return we're asked to do an annual FOS presentation, sell camp cards and popcorn and to provide volunteers to help run the above events. But as a Scoutmaster, I still get FOS, popcorn and camp cards, but in return I get a district camporee which doesn't come close to meeting the needs of our troop (and don't even TRY to tell me I should volunteer to improve the camporee. I've died on that hill a couple times already.), a monthly navel-gazing session and, um, and .... (cue the crickets).

@

 

I had it explained to me that in bear country one is to wear small bells on the shoe laces of the boots and carry pepper spray.  That way when you find bear scat, the scat that has bells in it and smells like pepper is grizzly scat.

Reminds me of a story about a group backpacking in Europe when they come across a male and female bear.  It's a long story and not really worth the effort, but the punch line is, "the Czech's in the male."

zzzzzzzzzz SNORK!  Sorry, I may have dozed off on the deer discussion.

You guys are looking for an regulatory solution to an operational problem.  Clearly, the SM is responsible for approving the completion of the requirements.  You need a SM with half a brain and a pair of stones. 

"Mr. TwoCub, can I count the crawdad I found in the creek?"

"Are you going to cook it?"

"Already did."

"It counts."

"Mr. TwoCub, I got my 10 animals, 6 crows and 4 squirrels."

"Nope, that's only 2 animals."

"But my PL already signed my handbook.  Mommy printed a page out of the Guide to Advancement that says..."

"No, doesn't count.  I hear the G2A makes great tender.  And ask your PL to swing by here when he gets a chance."

"Mr. TwoCub, can I count the kid with the purple Mohawk and nose ring."

"Sorry, credit for trying, but no ceeegar."

I'm not surprised, although I did think they would give it more of a rest than two years.

Glad I'm retiring.

Hey, does this mean we can ignore the squirt gun ban too?

I had a dad -- an ASM as a matter of fact -- tell me he wanted his son to hurry up and earn Eagle by the 8th grade so he would be done with Scouting and go on "better" stuff in high school.  I told him to go ahead and fill out his son's Eagle application and I would sign it.  "Really?" the dad asked.  "Will that work?"

"Does it matter?" I replied and walked away.

Hey, let's start a campaign for everyone to send CSE Michael Surbaugh a squirt gun and maybe a "pair" of Ping-Pong sized water balloons.

The guys on the local talk station were laughing so hard about this they could hardly speak.

Huh? Why can't national be clear about any of this???

Because this isn't a safety rule based on a rational assessment of risk. It's a political decision made on emotion. You either nod you head in sympathetic agreement or scratch it in amazement.

First rule of command school: never give an order you don't believe will be carried out. It becomes a habit.

It seems to me you broke your supper dish when you rather strongly declined the invitation to meet with the SE.  Maybe that meeting would have just been opportunity for them to beat up on you, but it may have been a attempt at resolution.

Either way, your right about screaming at a wall.  The SE has a great deal of discretion is such matters.

You should look for another opportunity for your volunteer work.

We run a training program for all new parents.  First, during our Webelos campout, while the Webelos are off on a hike with the Boy Scouts, we do about a 90 minute parent's presentation on how the program works.  Then again, the first month of troop meetings after crossover, all new parents are invited to attend a series of presentations from the troop leaders.  The first meeting is membership and paperwork.  The youth quartermasters do a session on the equipment the troop provides and what the Scouts need to have, The committee does a session on their roles, and last I and the ASMs do a session on program and advancement (and why Boy Scout advancement is not like Cub Scout advancement). 

I also encourage all parents to take Scoutmaster training, at least the classroom session.  If you're putting your son into a seven-year program, you should be willing to invest on day to learn the program.  (Few do.) 

Don't complain to me if you don't know how the program works.

What troop are your friends in?

By far, the greatest indicator of a Scout's success and longevity is being able to enjoying the fellowship, fellowship, encouragement and positive peer pressure of being with his buddies.

That solves almost all Scout ills.  The rest is adult drama the adults need to deal with.

"... this is nature's way of making the old not fear death so much."

 

 

I'm having t-shirts printed.  Who's in?

Real world goal:  Increase sales 15% or your ass is fired.

BSA goal:  Develop a "tool box" so someone else can increase sales if they feel like it.

SUCCESS!

The actual schedule is set by the PLC.

The whole mass email thing is a bit of an anachronism.  The main people who are interested in receiving them are the parents, so it's a committee function to keep an online troop calendar which automatically generates email reminders.  I doubt there are 10 Scouts who have emails registered. 

What has changed over the past few years is the boys have built their own text-based system.  They seem to have (I say seem to, because I'm not in their loop) a number of different text groups (one for their patrol, one for the PLC members, one for the Philmont crew, another for their friends, etc.  

So the time has come for me to step aside.  I've given notice to the troop committee I will be stepping down as Scoutmaster as of the end of summer camp.  New SM is onboard and going to camp with us.

Actually, this has been in the works for 18 months or so.  I have always said it would be time to go when I felt my lack of enthusiasm for the program became a detriment and I've felt that way for some time.  OneCubSon has graduated college and TwoCubSon is a senior.  While I have always taken tried to leave my sons alone at Scouts, not having a son in the troop has affected me more than I expected.  I miss the half-price buffalo wing  dinners Tuesday night before the meeting and the rides home from campouts.  I generally dread campout, although I still enjoy them once we get in the woods.  Truth is, I still really enjoy Scouting, but I'm tired of leading a volunteer group of 100+ adults and kids.  I've been with the troop 10 years, nine as SM.  Before that, five years with the pack, two years as committee chairman, two years as CM.  Ran day camp for five years and wasted too much time on the district committee.  

And it's time for new blood.  For years I've had a great group of ASMs to work with who all have become good friends.  But their sons have mostly aged out too, and they are moving as well.  The parents of the Scouts in the troop need to step up and provide the program for their sons.

So how to pass along twenty years of experience in two months?  I've come to the conclusion I can't.  It's like raising children.  Teach them what you can, set the example, but then you have to let them make their own mistakes.  I see way too much Cub Scout in the new leaders, but in six weeks it's no longer my concern.  I'm going cold turkey.  No troop meetings and no campouts for at least a year.  Everyone is going to have to learn work with the new guy.  Not sure how TroopMaster works? Call tech support.  What's recharter?  Call the Unit Commissioner.  (Okay, long-time readers will know that was a joke, right up there with the left-handed smoke shifter and camp cannon report.)

I do intend to stay involved as an Eagle project coach and doing the few merit badges no one else does.  But I can do those things off-line, staying out of the new SM's hair.  I can't decide if I want to remain registered as a AMS or committee member.  Of course my DE is salivating at the thought of me having time to spare, but that's not happening either.

No retirement gifts, please, but cash is always appropriate.

Hey, E92-94 -- aren't professionals prohibited or strongly discouraged from wearing knots other than Eagle or the Darth Vader (professional development) knot?   Maybe that explains Green Bar Bill's uniform rather than it being his personal preference or a political statement.

I agree with both E-94 and Stosh's earlier posts on the subject.  Wear them if you want. 

I've got a great team of ASMs in my troop, many have been in the program with me since we ran the pack.  But the way they knot program is set up, ASM are generally eligible for only the Scouter Training Knot.  And because it requires suffering through four Roundtable meetings, no one in our troop earns it.  Consequently almost the only knot worn by my ASMs is Eagle, and maybe another one or two Cub knots.  (Personally, I think this is an omission in the program.  There needs to be an Assistant Scoutmaster Medal of Merit, or something similar, for these folks who toil away at the unit program for years.  With the enthusiastic encouragement of our CO, we've taken to presenting the Adult religious emblem for this.)

On the other hand we have a fellow in the district who wears something north of 22 knots.  (Rumor was he would stop at 21 because that is his troop number, but I know he's past that.)  Like any two people with strongly held beliefs and opinions, he and I have butted heads a time or two.  But he's a helluva Scouter and puts a ridiculous amount of time into the program.

As a result, my experience is there is little correlation between number of knots and the value/quality/experience of an individual Scouter.  Knots are kinda like Eagle -- the piece of cloth means they can complete a check list.  To learn more you have to look what's under the piece of cloth.

For the record, most of my older uniform shirts -- some going back to my days in the pack --  have all 12 of the knots I've earned.  For my two newer shirts I dropped the four Cub leader knots (which have been retired from the program anyway) and wear those which mean the most to me: Eagle, God and Country, Arrow of Light, James E. West (because it was given to me by the pack when I moved on to the troop), District Award of Merit (representing 5 years running day camp -- I damn-well earned that one), SM Award of Merit, and Silver Beaver.   Two rows plus one.

I do find there are a couple practical reasons for wearing the knots.  I've been out of the pack for 10 years now.  The kids who were Tiger Cubs when I was last Cub Master are now graduating high school.  So I no longer have a close relationship with the non-leader parents in the pack.  I've found many of them, especially parents I really don't know, take some amount of comfort from the visible acknowledgement of my experience.  I get as many questions about the knots from those parents as anyone else.  We here can argue that's a remarkably weak way of judging a troop's program, but if it makes the parents comfortable....  The second purpose is as a conversation starter with the boys. "What's that for?" is a great entre' into discussing the religious emblem program. Or that like the Scout, I also earned Arrow of Light. Or the benefits of hard work and goal setting.  Etc., etc., etc.

Nope. Districts and councils serve the units, not the other way around.

What he said.