Twocubdad

You can set most accounts to notify you for any transactions over a certain amount. Simply select that amount and you get your notification....to up to five email accounts. Bank of America.

Sorry, Wolfie, I should have included the little sarcasm emoticon on my post. That is exactly what we have, but there is not dollar amount limit. The treasure sees everything I charge to the troop credit card in real time. If there is a question, he calls me. Which is what happened in this instance and how my error was caught.

I don't believe "no harm, no foul" is a legal principle, but I believe "criminal intent" is. Perhaps JoiseyScouter can enlighten us.

It's too bad we can't have someone in the troop receive instantaneous email notifications of all transactions. That would probably catch errors too.

You can tell I'm overwrought with ambivalence, eh Pack?

I don't question in the least the situation has been handled very poorly.

Dang, Pack, you cut me off.

And sometimes stuff happens. About two weeks ago I was trying to buy something on eBay (which I do maybe once every two or three years). I knew the credit card attached to my PayPal account had expired, so I was in my PP account trying to add a new card. Huge PIA. Spent a half-hour digging around trying to figure it out. All of the sudden, a "Thank You For Your Payment" window pops up. Somehow I must have clicked something which authorized payment on one of the expired cards. So I send an email to the seller warning them that my charge will probably bounce, that I'm an e-commerce idiot and for them to tell me how to fix it.

Next morning there is an email from the troop treasurer asking who charged something on eBay to the troop credit card. Of course I fessed up immediately. At some point I bought something for the troop (I have no idea what or when) and charged it to the troop CC. Either I clicked something, or PayPal figured there was a valid card on my account. Regardless, we fixed it and moved on.

The main thing we don't know, Imachristian, is the troop leaders side of they story. I know you feel you have presented their point of view fairly, but I rather think they would disagree. No matter how thin a pancake, it always has two sides. All due respect, I don't believe you are in a position to objectively say what THEIR expectations may have been or whether or not THEY felt fully trained to deal with you son.

I tend to agree with GSdad on this. God bless those leaders who can and will deal with special needs Scouts. But we are still volunteers and should have the latitude to decide what challenges we are willing to accept and those we don't feel capable of accepting. And while a unit may make a commitment to take on a Scout with challenges, unless they are professionals, I don't think one can fully understand what that commitment will be. There is nothing wrong with saying "this is more than I can handle" and asking out of that commitment. It is a wise man who understands his limitations and a wiser man who will take him at word on it.

That doesn't make sense. Districts are only administrative subdivisions of councils. Our council doesn't conduct any Cub activities -- everything is run through the districts.

Ask the mom to cite the document which outlines the changes.

For cubs and even younger Boy Scouts, I've found that a hand-drawn map of their immediate surroundings is very helpful. Being able to say, "here's the picnic table we're sitting at, there's the fire ring, here's your tent and here's my tent," makes it real -- the kids see the relationship between the map and the physical geography. Next step is to show them what it is to orient a map. You say, "we're at the picnic tables and the fire ring is off to the left" but the fire ring is to the right. You then show them how to orient the map so now the fire right to the right both in reality and on the map.

Little light bulbs go off all over the place.

Twocubdad, Do you suppose that might have happened once or twice, lol?

To me the question here is not so much your pragmatic 'what happens', but rather 'what should happen' which, evidently, no one here can answer to everyone's satisfaction. What's your guess, lol? Twenty lashes with a wet noodle? Require them to interpret into English something that G.W. Bush said? Or....once WE finally figure out what the answer is (unlikely given what I'm reading here) we gently remind them of what the protocol is supposed to be (as if we've known it all along)?

Well, yeah, Pack, something like that last part.

I was hoping someone would figure out the issue here is not who he asks or what he asks, or even the answer he receives, but who is doing the asking.

So if his patrol leader says, "Heck if I know, I don't even own a uniform" is there something particularly bad that happens?

Andy's mom hit on this awhile back and everyone sorta blew past her. But I think it goes to the heart of the issue:

Why the hell are you doing a day hike in avalanche country?

When did that become the expectation of the program? When did the "Promise of Scout" become that our outings would look like a Mountain Dew commercial? Back in the day, we were perfectly happy to hike a mile or so into the woods, set up camp and spend the weekend hanging around the fire with our mates tending a big stew or chili over a day or two. No more. And we have raised those expectations ourselves.

We've got a big troop with a good number of volunteers. We are also fortunate to be in a demographic where folks have a good bit of disposable income and vacation days. I've got two ASMs with shooting sports certification. Another has all the aquatics training. We've got a certified climbing instructor. Several of us are simply old school outdoorsmen.

But that's still not enough. The backpackers in the troop complain we don't hike far or fast enough. The climbers insist we climb Table Rock -- hell, I don't want to DRIVE up table rock! I know what Stosh is going to say, but these guys typically don't have the support in their patrols for this level of "adventure". Anytime someone brings up a big HA trip, the other three-quarters of the guys moan. It's not that we're not doing these activities -- we typically do one or two of each every year -- rather that for the climbing, shooting, backpacking or whitewater junkies it's never enough.

So my solution? GO DO IT YOURSELF! We've taught you the basics. We showed you how to pack a pack, put on a climbing harness and handle a canoe. You want to ride your mountain bike down the side of El Capitan? Go for it! It's called vacation. But for $100 a year, we're not obligated to scratch your every itch.

How does this relate to the OP? Because it's not a training issue, it's a program issue. We don't need to require -- or even offer -- training for ice climbing. The troop down the street doesn't need to be routinely involved in these exotic high adventure trips. We need a program reality check. Right now, we're dying the death of 1,000 cuts at the hand of Richard B. BSA is hemorrhaging money paying the lawyers and judgements. BSA is at fault in much of this. But it's not the health and safety guys, it's the marketing people. Look at high adventure articles in Boys' Life. They're selling the sizzle but not providing the steak. Where is the training and the BSA supervision for the "out there" program expectation they create?

I think current training is perfect adequate to take Scouts on a routine weekend in the woods, it they take and follow what's offered. But you guys are right, BSA needs to step up it's game when it comes to certification and leadership of HA activities. They could start by looking at the tour plan process and differentiating between a knot-tying weekend on council property vs. more adventurous programs. But those of you who have said it's not just training but experience and maturity are also correct. My climbing guy has spent two years working with the council climbing director getting to the point HE IS COMFORTABLE taking the Scouts out on natural rock. (As a certified instructor, he could basically open the camp's climbing wall for us. Yoohoo! You don't see troops climbing plywood featured in Boys' Life too often.)

King for a Day: I've written before that I believe council camping and program operations should look more like guide services; providing competent expertise to units who don't have it in house. Maybe each council or district could organize a "super troop" which specializes in these high adventure programs and can afford to put the time and commitment into trained, competent leadership. They could even come up with a snazzy name for them. How about .... Venture Crews! (But that's another thread.)

YOUR SON should be asking his patrol leader.

We've used Advantage Emblem (www.advantageemblem.com) for our neckers for years and have been very please with both the quality and service. Their art department is great. We send sketches on paper towels and get great-looking designs back.

And their BSA registered suppliers so you don't have to worry about all the copyright mumbo-jumbo.

#1. In theory, the sponsor of a race is receiving something of value for its sponsorship fee -- visibility, good will and an opportunity for promotion.

#2. I think you're confusing the rules for an Eagle Project. Say your gas station owner is an elderly person who has done much for the community over the years. There is nothing which says a unit can't do their good turn for the day for anyone they wish.(That would not be the case for an Eagle project, however.) Similarly, if funds are raised for such a project, I know of no rule stating any extra funds have to go to the gas station. In that case, however, I do think trustworthiness dictates you do son.

I can't seem to find the person, who has the district list. Which person would that be? I tried contacting the guy, who was in charge of the powow, where electricity was begun, but he hasn't responded to either of my two inquiries

 

And,

 

I've asked the unit commissioner twice.  Maybe sm will have better luck.

What other merit badges are you working on, Christine?

DON'T MAKE ME WATCH GLUE DRY.

Seriously, for years, CSRT was craft night. The little granny lady who ran it always had a craft for us to make. And we, in fact, made the craft. I usually played the jackass and took the same pieces and made something different -- like taking the Styrofoam balls destined to become a snowman and making them into a family of Jack In The Box characters. She got PO'd at that.

Seriously, keep in mind you're dealing with adults. As for crafts, show me the finished product, give me the printed instructions and materials list. If you really must, make one yourself, but do it the way the cook things on TV, with the various stages pre-made so you can compress the construction time.

I would think this year, especially, it would be important to help the folks with the new pre-planned Cub program. I imagine a year or two from now that will get repetitive, but for now...

And don't discount discussion. What is the idea of a Roundtable after all? But it's your job to steer the discussion. Ask everyone to share their favorite Go See It, pack camping spots, campfire programs, B&G ideas etc. That can be the most beneficial part of the meeting.

Over the past few years our brother pack has started assigning planning and execution of pack activities (PWD, Scouting for Food, Blue & Gold, etc.) to the dens. While the den leaders are free to delegate the responsibility to a parent in the den or for the den to run it as a group effort, it is ultimately the responsibility of the DL.

So after 5+ years of this, the DLs cross over into the troop and retirement. Used to be the DLs were my best troop volunteers -- they generally understood the program and what it involved. Now, the better volunteers are those who sat out Cub Scouts and are look at the troop as a new opportunity to get involved.

I totally agree that five years as a DL is too much. So the pack dump pack activities onto them as well?

We don't manage PORs to accommodate advancement.  My official position is you should elect or select the best person for the job.  But where the rubber meets the road I know the Scouts do a little horse trading to make sure they get a shot at the PORs they need.  And that's as it should be.  It's part of taking care of the Scouts below you so that everyone gets a shot -- even if you know a particular Scout is not the best qualified and may create more work for your.

Frankly, BW, if Tommy is almost 17, likely a rising senior, probably driving and still doesn't have the initiative, drive and plain ol' gumption to ask make his case for a POR, I'm not stepping in and solving his problem for him.

You think?

. It would be great if the BSA national would take back the ownership of the troops instead of the COR type of structures today.

 

In all the years I followed these forums, I can hardly think of an statement with which I disagree more.

The strength of the BSA program lies in its roots with local communities through the system of chartering partners.  The relationship with the COs not only give the program stability, but molds every unit to the standards and values of the communities they serve.  Local leaders, who understand both the core BSA program AND the strengths, abilities and needs of the Scouts and Scouters in the unit are able to deliver a much better program than one strictly dictated from above.  Quite the opposite, I believe many of the problems we are now seeing in the program stem from an explosion of rules and national policies flowing from Irving.

The training issue of non direct contact adult leaders is a huge pet peeve of mine.  The only specific training for committee members is the very generic Troop Committee Challenge.  It is not specific to individual positions on the committee, so there is no CC training or treasurer training or advancement training.  Like most training it only needs to be completed once and the person is trained for "life" with no regard for policy or other changes.  That can present huge issues.

Be careful what you ask for.   On the one hand, it would be difficult to create job-specific training for, say, a unit treasurer given the differences in unit operations -- everything from a CPA using professional standards to cash in one envelope and receipts in another.  On the other hand, look what a mess we have trying to get people to sit down for YP training every two years.  Do you really want to add that many more hoops to jump through at recharter time?

I would have gone with Isle of Skye, too.  The whisky there is wonderful.

Ultimately, this is a chain-of-command issue to be worked out between the pastor, the CC and the SM.  I assume the pastor is the head of the Chartered Organization.  If that's the case, I would suggest the troop accommodate his request that scheduling requests go through the SM.  Without the CO, the troop program doesn't exist.  I think it's a pretty good lesson for the Scouts to learn that their program doesn't exist in a vacuum.  Everyone is answerable to someone and you need to remember who signs your check. 

That said, our PLC schedules troop activities, including ECOHs and work days so as to avoid conflicts.  First come, first served.  The second person to request a date that's already taken is out.  Sorry that's the only weekend Aunt Sue can come.  You should have asked earlier. 

Our troop tradition is that ECOHs are troop  functions.  The presentation belongs to the troop and is conducted by the troop.   All the parties, receptions, dinners and related swirl are up to the Scout and his family.  It's like a wedding.  The minister administers the rite of marriage according to the tradition of the church, but all the rest is up to the couple.

Consequently, ECOHs have several moving parts, including the schedule and availability of all the key participants.  As Andysmom's quoted her CC in one of her posts, "we have lives outside Scouting."  There have been occasions when we have devoted four, five or six consecutive weekends to Scouting,  so I've had to say enough, we're taking a weekend off.. 

On occasion, if a Scout still chose to schedule something over top a previously-approved activity, that will result in a conversation regarding the meaning of Courteous.  I don't consider it to be Scoutlike to schedule an activity over someone else's ECOH or workday, intentionally causing a conflict and forcing others to choose between the two.  There's always another weekend.

1.  Wash in soapy water

2. Dunk in boiling water

3. Hold over fire to dry

vs.

1. Wash in soapy water

2. Dunking rinse water

3. Dunk in water with a sanitizing tablet

Not sure I see a huge difference.

With the sanitizer, you don't need boiling water.  The sanitizer works in cold water.  We teach the Scouts to heat one kettle of hot water and divide it among the three tubs, then adding sufficient cold water for the job.  Using warm water help cut the grease and makes it a little more comfortable in cold weather.

Not their job either.  If these two need life coaches, therapists, ministers or exorcists, they need to look in the yellow pages.