Twocubdad

I think there's a difference between the medical form which states who MAY pick up the Scout (theoretically under emergency circumstances) and a early release form stating someone WILL pick up the Scout.  If, out of the blue, Uncle Phil shows up to pick up a Scout and I don't know anything about it, I'm going to question it.  An early release form, preferably given to me in advance by the parent, assuages those concerns.

Skip, can confirm, but most the continentals tie the tails of their necker in a "friendship knot" which I suspect is what Wills did with his.  The knot is impossible to describe, but here are instructions:  http://www.baggy.me.uk/knots/#friend

We have our neckers made.  They are triangular, but extra large which is somewhat more functional, but look a lot better.  In addition to being useless, the standard BSA neckers only come down to the second shirt button on anyone over age 14.

In addition to size, one of the nice things about the neckers in the rest of the world is the design.  They usually have a nice embroidered emblem, a couple layers of banding on short edges (which creates a cool pattern when rolled), plus they are a heavier absorbent fabric which makes them much more comfortable.  At WJ in 2007 (I sat maybe 100 feet from Prince William!) neckers were the hot trading commodity.  But no one wanted the BSA neckers -- they were crap, made from a very thin acrylic and totally screen printed.  They were an embarrassment.

Two things:

1) I'm not too torqued-up about advancement.  It's a tool; a means to an end of teaching ethical decision making and character development.  I really don't give a rat's rear about what the requirements say regarding leadership.  I expect everyone in the troop to be a leader in their own right, the patch on their left sleeve is immaterial.

2) I take Jodie at his/her word that there is something amiss here.  In a short post I couldn't completely describe or justify all the little things which go into what I understand about a situation.  So I give Jodie the benefit of the doubt that he/she has a reasonable basis for feeling the Scout was trying to pull one over.

Consequently, throw all the advancement requirements out the window and sit down with this fellow and let him know of your concerns.  Discuss the underlying problems which led to his "punishment."  (I don't punish Scouts.  If this Scout is teaching knots as a punishment, what does that say to the kid who does it because it's his job or he wants to?  But that's another thread.)  Talk to him about sins of commission vs. omission and how that relates to Trustworthyness.  Talk about what real service to other means and why motivation does make a difference.  Talk about servant leadership.

Scouting should be all about these types of conversations.

I agree it's too late to do anything about First Class.  But you do have a learning opportunity here.  Discuss the issue with the SM. Assuming the SM confirms your suspicions,  I would ask to informally meet with the Scout, perhaps along with another member of the BOR (I don't think I would formally reconvene the board) and share your concerns with him.  Maybe he really doesn't understand the issue.  Or maybe he thinks he's getting one over on you.  Either way, conversations like this are what Scouting is all about.

Okay, I don't necessarily disagree with that.  But I would say any collateral damage is on the head of the mom.  If she agrees to stay away from the troop for six months (or whatever the troop asks), there is no impact on the ASM father or son. 

That would be all fine and good IF THE WOMAN WAS A REGISTERED SCOUTER, which she is not.  What authority do the CC and COR have over a non-registered parent?

 

The best they can do is forbid her to attend activities concerning her son.  Right, that's not gonna wash.

 

As far as this situation is concerned no one can really do anything about what happened.  The best they can do is punish the dad and scout by not allowing them in the program forcing them to go elsewhere, but then they didn't do anything wrong.

 

When the smoke settles, NOTHING WILL BE DONE because nothing can be done.

Stosh -- over the years you've written here a hundred times the SM handles the Scouts, the CC handles the adults.  What's changed?

I like Old Stosh's approach.  This is an adult problem to be dealt with by the CC.  The CC needs backup and the COR is as good as any.  Between the two of them, the have as much authority as they need to deal with the situation.  A stranger wanders into a troop meeting off the street and we don't have authority to deal with it?  Of course we do. That this mom isn't registered makes no difference.

And don't buy the "open to all parents" argument, either.  I've been down that road.  We had a father causing problems for the troop.  We talked with him multiple times, asked him to back off, suggested he find another outlet for his volunteer time, then told him flat out he was no longer welcome.  He pulls out his BSA Lawyer license and trots out the "open to all parents" rule.  Fine.  We dismissed him and his son.  The COR can play that card.  Hated to do it, the kid was a good Scout.  But the parent wouldn't agree to the conditions the troop set, so.....

We have a room full of people who don't mind saying no.  Then there's a different group who will agree to most anything, but then never do it.

I think Barry has a good idea.  This needs to be handled by the Committee Chairman and Chartered Organization Representation.  The full committee doesn't need to be involved.  And I think Barry is right, too. A friendly chat is better than a subpoena. But unless the woman's explanation brings significant new information to light, she needs to take a break from the troop. 

'Round these parts, at least, the training folks aren't about training.  They're the high priesthood of Scouting, there to protect the Good Ol' Boy network from outsiders, interlopers and other assorted heathen and to ensure that only the Chosen receive the coveted third bead or (lowering voice, casting eyes toward ground) a Fourth Bead.

I've never notice instructional quality to be one of their hallmarks.

We've solved the problem by only recruiting folks who are independently wealthy to volunteer.

Explain why you feel compelled to go to these lengths to get these kids to take care of themselves?  "Does anyone need to use the sunscreen?" is as far as I take it with 11-year-old Boy Scouts. 

Reminding them is nice of you.  Providing sunscreen is above and beyond the call of duty.  All this rigamarole about consent forms and waivers is silly.

Yes, we use them but they are oral.  Our Scouts pledge, on their honor to be Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, and Reverent AND to do their best to God and their country and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; and to keep themselves physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

We've found that's good enough.

The program your son's troop is running is not Boy Scouts.  But neither is the program you have cobbled together for him.  There is more to Scouting than pounding out requirements with your mom.  But you clearly don't want to hear that.

Find a real troop, register your son and then leave them both alone.

We average around 60 Scouts, so we've never felt active recruiting is necessary or especially effective.  We usually get 10-12 Webelos a year and 3-5 by word of mouth.  That's enough.

Yes, we invite the Web2s to our November campout every year and put on a really good program for the boys and their parents.  We work out a visit to a troop meeting at everyone's convenience.  Both are part of the job.

No, there are no other district events where troops are encouraged to bring Webelos.  We don't attend either of the two annual district camporees anyway.  We have a robust outdoor program without putting up with district nonsense.  That's part of the job, too.

My job is to run a good troop program.  I'm neither a Cub Scout volunteer nor district membership chairman.  I do my job and expect those folks to do theirs.

NJ -- I got the same impression from reading he few snips. Sounds to me like this company is throwing a bone to BSA in order to get some free PR. But then again, national seems to have this obsession with looking trendy at any cost.

Twocubdad, you only have yourself to blame for this thread.

You're welcome. The popcorn will be ready in a minute or two.

Okay, I suppose I can go back to catching up on my sleep.

Speaking of which, who the heck lets Scouts chop wood at 5:30 on a Saturday morning? I don't think my guys know there is another 5:30 on the clock.

Maybe everyone is at summer camp.  I just got back Saturday.  But the most interesting topics are a couple re-hashed threads from a few years back.  Can't anyone gin-up a news article about a gay Scout getting married to spice things up?

My grandfather was a SM during the early part of WW2.  He was draft deferred due to his age and family.  After he died we found a file with his Scout records, including his own advancement.  I think he made it as far as Star but he had to give it up.  His brother was killed at Anzio and he was so angry about it he volunteered for the Army Air Corps.

Stosh,

You're a Civil War reinactor, right?  You know how the best surgeons were the ones who could cleanly amputate a leg in three minutes?  There's your model.

If you try to get off in the weeds with policy, someone is going to throw the once and done stuff at you.  That was my caveat about involving the district advancement chairman.

Sit down with the Scout AND his parents.  This falls under both Trustworthy and Obedient.  The rules were not followed by the other troop.  Both you and the Scout are on your honor to do what is right and what is right is to back up and complete the requirements properly with the troop.  As a show of good faith, perhaps you have his PL standing by to go through and sign off all the requirements the Scout has completed to the troop's satisfaction.   

Good job, Skip.  I've found you need to do that every couple years least they forget.

Merit badges are pretty cut and dried, especially now that the SM's initial signature on the blue card only indicates he chatted with the Scout about something -- the weather, sports, perhaps the merit badge....

When it comes to rank requirements, I would tend to be a little more concerned.  Many troops have their way of doing things, who signs the book, the standards of performance, etc.  I think it is instructive that most camps, both Cub and Boy Scout, are reticent to sign requirements in a Scout's handbook, rather provide the unit leaders with information on what the Scout has learned.  The testing is left to the unit.

We've been through similar experiences as SSS.  Had a Life Scout whose family moved out of state.  The young man was adamant he wanted to earn Eagle with our troop, but had a few MBs and his project to complete.  He dual registered with another troop and completed the merit badges through them.  When it came to his EP, he developed the project where he lived and submitted the proposal to us and our council EP committee.  I signed his Eagle app and it was submitted through our troop.  When it came time for his EBOR, the other troop asked if he would sit for an unofficial board with them, which he did, but his official Board of Review was done with our troop -- via Skype, no less.  Actually, it all worked out well and was a much easier than this explanation makes it sound.

Stosh, I think we're misunderstanding "provisional".  Numerous times I've been checking in at camp and the CD says, "hey, here's this kid here for the week by himself.  Can he camp with you?"  To me that's a provisional camper.  He's camping with us for the week, but he isn't a registered member of our troop.  I wouldn't begin to sign requirements in his handbook, but I have written letters to his Scoutmaster listing those things the Scout did at camp.

 I suppose the real question is whether or not the Scout has dual registration with the two units. (For those who don't know, Scouts can be registered in multiple units as long as they are in different councils.  Often, this is to accommodate a Scout with divorced parents who spends parts of the year living with both.) If he is dual registered you're stuck with the results of the BORs.  And if that's the case, the unit leaders need to get on the phone and work it out for the future. 

Otherwise, advancement is 100% the responsibility of the unit where he is registered.  He should have provided signed blue cards from his registered troop for the merit badges (although recent advancement policy has made this a meaningless exercise -- but we've chewed on that before).  Only those appointed by his SM are authorized to sign rank advancement requirements.   That someone from the second troop signed for requirements carries no more weight than if his Aunt Minnie signed.

Verification should be easy -- just follow the proscribed steps to advancement -- learning, testing, reviewing, recognizing.  That the Scout learned the skills at camp is terrific.  Now he comes home and is tested by whoever his registered SM has designated.

MrBob -- you've cited the correct sections of the GTA but have reached the wrong conclusions.  No where in any BSA publications is it suggested that "his unit leader" is any ol' Scoutmaster who happens to be nearby.  For a Boy Scout, that is the Scoutmaster of the unit where he is registered. At our district winter camporee, the patrols are assigned to different troops to camp with for the weekend.  Can a kid get the other SM to sign his Eagle application over the weekend?  Here's another question:  who turns in the advancement report to council?  And if the other troop is in a different council, which council?  And what happens when you show up at the council office with an advancement report listing a Scout not in your unit?

Unfortunately, this is a messy knot to untie.  I can't fathom that another troop would conduct TWO BoRs under these circumstances.  Personally, I'd sit down with the Scout and his parents and explain this is a gross violation of policy and you can't award the two ranks.  But I would immediately, at that meeting, start going through the requirements with the Scout and signing off on the requirements he can complete.  But don't misunderstand this -- if the Scout says he completed a five mile hike at camp give him credit for it.  I'd ask the same questions -- where did you go, what did you see, show me what you learned about using a compass -- as I would for any other troop activity I didn't personally witness.

Again, in my case, I would involve my district advancement chairman in this.  But I know he understands the policy and will support the troop to get a good outcome.  But if I had an inkling the DAC is one of those, "oooo, this is an adult mistake.  We can't 'punish' Scouts because of an adult mistake" then I'd just keep my mouth shut.

Whew! I was working up a good head of indignation assuming they were busing kids to sit through citizenship or Communications in the air conditioning.

This seems like an appropriate use of resources. Our camp hauls kid all over half the state to go rock climbing, white watering, backpacking, fly fishing, etc. They even tour a local prison for one of the citizenship badges. No difference here. We're fortunately in that we've had a really nice blacksmith's shop on camp for years. Since it was first offered, the blacksmith has taught welding, too. His classes are packed every session.