blw2

no, not right at all..... I'm not saying that cubs should be more like the troop...well not as troops are in reality anyway. A grossly exaggerated analogy of what I'm thinking might be like feeding a boy chocolate ice cream for an appetizer then making him eat broccoli salad for dinner and over cooked Brussels sprouts for desert. and I don't mean make cubs like brussels sprouts...of course I'm not thinking that fun should be taken away from cubs... What I'm thinking is really more about preparing both the adults and scouts to ultimately facilitate a better troop life...better th

funny, with this one paragraph you summed up a huge bulk of my son's troop experience! he never wanted to go to the troop meetings because they were usually "planning" for the next low adventure outing....which pretty much solely involved coming up with a menu and deciding who had grub master duties this time. It's teh fun stuff that was missing....you got that right! & I think this sums up what I saw too. There was a push for more adventure for the older guys, but at the expense of leaving the younger guys out. I never understood that. The adventures being planned were wel

The SM in our troop did not. He had a "The More The Merrier" policy. I tend to agree with him, only form the standpoint that I don't feel it appropriate to tell a parent that they can't come along to observe. I was never aware of any outright direction or rules to stay hands-off either, although I feel like the concept was subtly encouraged within reason... I saw plenty of parent/kid interaction on the trips I joined them on.... The committee did on several occasions make parents register as committee to go along....with summer camp, where it was likely a camp rule. I never cared

oh, I wanted to comment on the stepping on toes thing,... Clarke Green once advised me, then everyone in a podcast... not being in a key position (cub master, CC, or COR) then there's nothing you can really do. I thought his analogy was good.... he said it's their house. It's kinda like you showing up at your neighbor's door with a gallon of paint and saying ok, I'm here to paint your living room, it is the wrong color. I think it was in his podcast on "Cooperative Volunteering". I was the one that emailed the question to him.....basically his advice was to cooperate and earn trus

If it helps, these are all very common issues in my estimation My advice - 1)focus on your den (in the ADL role). Of the things you've listed, that is the most important. that is the thing that affects the scouts' experiences. I take it you are registered as a committee member. I'd suggest talking with the Den Leader, and depending on that conversation either send in an application to register as Den leader or as ADL....so that you are more "official" with some level of "authority" in the job. 2) drop the B&G cold. nobody will ever step in if you are doing it. And if it

While reading a current thread about Girls in the pack and how one particular mom prefers the Cub program over the GS program.... I had a thought about my son's experiences. Thought it might trigger an interesting discussion.... or maybe not. Is Pack life harming troop life? Are we not preparing these young scouts properly for what 'could be' in the troop? backing up with a bit of history of my perspective. My son was active in cubs, maybe typical in that he was excited at first to put on the uniform and the rest. Over time this grew to being disinterested in going to pack me

I was thinking about these places and to the topic of this thread.... these are too perfect really. If I could brainstorm up the "perfect place", I'd think it might be something more rustic A place where the scouts would have their own key, well at least the Patrol Leaders.... so they can have it as a proper club house, patrol meetings on their own, etc... Maybe like a barn or rustic cabin close to where the scouts live but not "too city" with an outdoor area with a flagpole and fire ring, etc...where camping could be done...like for instance with visiting WEBELOS

more to add.... It seems that most of us, or at least many, think the treasurer is wrong. But I'll submit that the treasurer might want to keep the books more linear for transparency and for CYA. I know that I was that way as Treasurer. I wanted everything to be clean and easily understood by anyone that cared to look. Money can be a very sticky wicket and I always tried to keep that in mind.... So, while it's true that this sort of "commingling of funds" can be easily shown in the books and really there's no hard done in what happened.... it's still ugly on the books and any

very good point, Justascoutmom.... Also another thought..... how different really, is this topic from those scouts that have a parent as a scouter and have never been on a trip without them.....not sleeping in the same tent, but they go on every trip. I've seen life scouts that I'm pretty sure have never been on a camping trip without a parent along....? Now i understand that within this can be a wide disparity between those with very close contact throughout the weekend and those that are very hands off and never interact together on the trip.... but generally speaking that's ju

I think the next point in your approach should be supporting the treasurer moving forward in the method they are wanting to push. as Parkman suggested. agreed. not your job....and wise to avoid... except I would support them as the figurehead (just a word of support then step out of it).

gotta say, I like qwazse's answer...

good point! Professional certifications are among the big offenders in this regard.... CPA's, Architect's, Engineers, Medical professions of all sorts.... require regular CEU's. Biggest laugh. Nothing but a money making scam. In my experience most of these folks end up taking a bunch of stuff that has no interest to them at all, and zero bearing on their actual job....except maybe to help them be more "rounded" as a person arguably.

.....AND, personally I don't see a hole lot of difference between this Eagle and the one that earned his Eagle at 14 and then dropped scouts. Both are Eagles....just as is the scout that earned his at 14 and continued to be active

off topic, but to a new SM...when I read this book a couple years back, I thought it should be required reading for all new SM's it's a work of fiction, and a quick read..... but thought provoking I think https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/24872995-so-far-so-good Another really good one, in a different way was https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2711721-rocks-in-my-backpack?from_search=true

breaking from tradition.... in a big way that depends on what your position in the troop is. committee member, parent, or some other non-key position..... not really a lot you can do beyond suggest and discuss... If SM yeah, i think I'd come up with a to the point way to just tell them. Meet with those particular parents, and tell them straight out. scouts is about growing up troop camping is not family camping like in cubs. explain the patrol method in basic terms...how it offers a place for the scouts to lead and fail in a safe way, and to grow up like no other

Our troop never really did that actual distance thing when I was along....mostly just a function of the place. In most cases it would be more like a figure 8...the adults set up in one circle and the scouts in another. (not actually touching usually, but close by...) But I personally think that the space idea is very good. Occasionally when i camped with the troop no effort was made at all....adults and scout tents just placed any old random spot in the site.... I didn't like that at all, even though a hands-off approach was used for the most part.

If I'm understanding the concept correctly We all do it I suppose...signaling. Not so unlike throwing up the hand, or saying things like "agree to disagree". It's a "I'm smart, I'm experienced, I have value"..... that is taken by others as you are dumb, you haven't thought this through as much as I have, etc... yeah, you know in all the time I read and listened to his work, I remember hearing that sort of thing a few times... but I can't think of one of those times when he was really wrong. maybe off in a nuance, but not really overall concept..... I can only remember one point of

gasp.... I'm pretty sure that's more than 4ft up & those scouts don't have safety belts and proper belay equipment Seriously though, that picture reminds me of some of the great stories in a book I read called "Rocks in My Backpack". Love to see that! your "real life" example...was real life, and I'm sure it makes for a gripping and memorable tale when expertly told the way you do....but in the end circling back to the point I've been beating to death about discovery....it's still just a tale to those boys. It's somebody telling that boy yet again something else. Sure they rem

OK, maybe so....just maybe.... so let's say it is so, how did you gain that better judgement? To quote Yoda in the most recent Star Wars...."The greatest teacher, failure is." This is the beauty of Scouts and the Patrol Method if done right...it gives these boys an opportunity to gain that judgment in a relatively safe and controlled way where not many other opportunities exist at that age.... Going back to your hike example, I might suggest a quick reminder about buddy system and leave it at that with your leader. Then after that and without his even knowing, fall back your

truly horrible, that. yes of course....local and specific situations to consider immediately there on the spot, and the ability of hind site and reflection here.... but there are I'd guess almost always ways to accomplish safety and discovery at the same time. I'll admit myself to not being the best at doing that subtle steering myself, usually having the reflex to be more matter of fact about things in the heat of the moment... This is the area where I think BSA would be best served by stepping up their training to help all of us scouters improve in this area.... Where was Ga

Gblotter, you bring up an interesting side to that whole idea.... there's something in there some place about our being in the opportunity business....giving the scouts opportunities.... I think both points are valid.... I still think it should be internally motivated and driven, but how can we adults make those opportunities available while keeping that internal focus? hmmm.... a head scratcher

My personal take is no harm in what was done. As treasurer I would mention it to the committee so that it's open and on record what happened and I would request that all future business be handled in the more linear fashion, just so the books are in line and clean. Personally I agree that this simple approach is cleaner and better, although I really don't think anything inappropriate was done the other way either.... the real grey area in my thinking, is the situation of the $75 expense....is it the sort of thing that needs prior approval by the committee in your unit bef

I would agree with qwazse, in theory anyway because of course I don't know the individuals or specifics of the situation.... but in gblotter's situation.... it is so very natural and easy for an adult to make such an "order"....when it might have been "better" to find a way to either a) in a subtle way lead the SPL to come to the idea himself that he needs to rejoin without him really even knowing that you steered him directly... or b) maybe an adult could have held back without saying a word to ensure safety of the younger slower group and let the sprinters carry on.... co

yeah, I to would guess your son's troop is typical. I feel like I know in theory what it could be...how great of an experience for the scouts it could be I mean.... and so I used to get very frustrated, knowing I was in no position to affect real change. With the help of folks here,. as well as some advice I got form Clarke Green at scoutmastercg.com, and some reading I had done by BP that said something to the affect that EVERY boy will get some good out of scouting, as long as the SM does no harm...(don't remember the exact quote)....I started coming around to the idea that while

wow, that's really hitting the jackpot. That really should be fun for the scouts...ESPECIALLY if the adults get out of the way and let them set it up and furnish the place.... That's the only problem I can imagine with a place that nice.... very unlikely that the adults are going to let the scouts own it, and do what they do.... unlikely that the SPL and PL's will be given a key to the door....