theysawyoucomin'

Thank you all for your opinions and references.

This boy will be an Eagle someday and I will proudly stand with him.

But folks the cake isn't quite done yet.

A week at NYLT and a year of PL or SPL would lead to a life change for this boy

Actually Ev,

Oak has it correct.

According to the National site you do have to relieve/fire/take his position away or you have to have the position count.

On to the different POR topic.

If my Scoutmaster had ever said to me "I want you to do a different POR for Eagle than you did for Life".

There would not have ever been a question. This boy did not show for the elections in Sept.

If I cried to my mommy, she would have said, "Do what you are told."

Right now I've got a kid whose parent does not believe the Scoutmaster appoints the DC. Boy is currently 14 and 4 months.

I helped the boy find the position last year. In August I told the fahter I expect some other POR. I feel this is within my area as far as being the SM. WHAT SAY YOU?

The positions allow for command and staff type duty, the DC may lead but it sure isn't the same as a PL. We are a Troop with 15 boys split into 2 patrols plus "HQ"

We have a history of our DC's going on to do good things like

SPL

ASPL

a third boy boy PL and ASPL and still two years from Eagle (by his choice)

I think DC is a great position my son was one, I had one for two years when I DL'ed. One of my five wood Badge goals included writing/compiling a 200 page book about being a DC and a bunch of just for fun activities. Every den in America needs one.

This Microwave Eagle stuff has to stop.

Make the kid lead kids his age. It is easier to lead kids 6 years your junior than your peers.

EGHIG,

Would this rule hold up in an appeal to your council? I feel it would for the same reason the SM approves the PORs

John you are so wrong about this.

Here is a quiz:

Who determines if a boy can be a den chief for all of his POR's?

Does a boy ever have to do Troop leadership? Where does it say he canot be a den chief for his POR for star life and eagle?

If the boy goes AWOL for 6 month prior to getting Eagle

whose responsibility is it to maintain regular contact with the SM?

The boy?

The SM?

If you do not fire the boy from his POr does that mean he did it good enough to be advanced?

Tell me whachyall think.

Seems like justice to have a "redistributionist" win. After all Woodrow Wilson the seggregationist and man who lent street cred to "Birth of a Nation" won it.

Yasser Arafat , man who bilked his people out of millions, there is somebody else to look up to.

Good to know the folks in Norway are under the hypnotic spell.

Great form Calico Penn. Squashing opinion is the way to roll, telling folks to STFU always wins the discussion.

OK you're right, he deserves the award.

Seems like justice to have a "redistributionist" win. After all Woodrow Wilson the seggregationist and man who lent street cred to "Birth of a Nation" won it.

Yasser Arafat , man who bilked his people out of millions, there is somebody else to look up to.

Good to know the folks in Norway are under the hypnotic spell.

Great form Calico Penn. Squashing opinion is the way to roll, telling folks to STFU always wins the discussion.

OK you're right, he deserves the award.

We all scuffle and argue on this part of the site but I would like to reach some common ground here and tell you all how to collectively save millions of taxpayers money.

Do not go see the movie the Informant. Oh my goodness Matt Damon and george Clooney owe me $7.95.

Worse than Leatherheads.

In NY state this was rountine I think our record is something like 144 days late

Posted: April 01, 2009 - 7:25 AM

ALBANY (AP) -- Democrats who control state government said they crafted the $131.8 billion budget in historic secrecy so they could pass it on time, but they missed the April 1 deadline for the third straight year anyway.

Adoption of the budget Wednesday will be New York's 23rd late budget in the past 25 years. The spending plan includes a near-record 8.7 percent increase in spending and $7 billion in new or higher taxes and fees.

The morons keep electing the idiots to run the gov't.

I am kind of wondering what national will call camping.

We don't have too many cubs with a sleeping bag equal to Upstate NY winters. Remember we held 2 Winter Olympic games here.

This trip we did was just right with what amounted to the kids spending all day outdoors and sleeping in a heated building at night. Kind of like home except the kids went outside and I keep my home about like meat locker all winter. Fuel oil costs money y'know.

At that age most of my kids had a theme type sleeping bag , I don't know if Barney or SpongeBob is equal to old man winter.

Despite all that I know they had a safe, fun time "camping" in the winter on a "Freezeout".

For Boy Scouts I do not think you are camping unless it is under nylon, canvas, or a leanto that you humped a pack to.

I never was a Tiger leader. Led wof thru Crossover and now I am an SM. I did attend every Tiger meeting though.

The best suggestion I heard was to stagger the meetings.

As far as asking a parent to step up, that reminds me of the British Navy's press gangs of old looking for sailors in every seedy joint by the docks.

Ask each parent to do shared leadership. I did two meetings then---because I wanted to. Others did one. Some who as luck would have it had the worst behaved kids did none. funny how that works. Sometimes folks will step forward when they see others. You still remain the leader you just get alot of help and guide the parents along.

As a good leader you are going to have some fun ready because you know one of those parents is going to let you down.

Thank you for helping all those boys grow.

Twin Rivers council has the "Snow and Do".

Teaching ice fishing was one of my WB tickets.

I've brought kids overnight W/ a tour permit to a heated council cabin, every boy having a parent there. We went sleigh riding but don't let National know I'm sure the lawyers would think sledding too dangerous and abolish it. Was admonished here for calling it family camping.

It really was a great time DO cooking, sledding, ice fishing, "Cremation of Sam McGee" around the fire with popcorn from DO.

Cabin was so warm kids had a hard time sleeping.

2cub,

5 of them later were killed. That is one of the reasons I always spread the word about the Gold Stars on the Troop Flag. 2 Marines and 3 soldiers.

We still meet in the same place.

From the notes of the Troop committee Meeting for my Troop.

"Any Scout climbing out a window and on to the roof of the Village Hall shall be suspended from this Troop."

16 May 1941

what the heck is the world comming to?!?!?!!?!

I always love reading on the internet about sewing.

In a world where the international space station barely gets news---sewing of all things-- is an insurmountable chore.

Play Marbles.

Build a crystal radio. There are hundreds of examples of "radio for the masses" and radio ownership growing in the teens, twentys and 1930's.

Walk through an old cemetery. ask the boys to note how old people were. Relate it to todays swine flu and vaccinations.

Talk about occupations that are not there anymore.

Find and visit a woodworker that only works by hand.

Go to an archive and show them a city directory prior to phones. Many wonderful adds and occupations there.

Discuss the roles of men and women.

Talk about job safety and how that has changed.

Borrow a dutch oven froma Troop and make an apple pie. Discuss cooking methods over a fire.

Visit a nursing school and talk about medicine/health issues.

Research every day products like Lifesavers candy and others. Pepsi went belly up sveral times before success. Cracker jacks came on the market with hundreds of carmel corns . The prize mattered.

Look for an old farm machinery group in your area. Those old grumps love to show off thier machinery.

If you need some pages copied from the 1930 cub book pm me and I can show you old requirements.

I too am late to the discussion.

I would certainly hope life experience would count and allow you to "CLEP" some of this course. As a former infantry platoon sgt I'm not going to want to listen to an "experienced " trainer tell me how to sleep under canvas. In some cases the folks who teach IOLS don't have the most experience.

As the same time what I really needed was age appropriate skills to work with the boys.

Much of the skills needed in the outdoors come from good judgement. Good judgement often comes from bad experiences, they come from bad judgement.

The only problem I have with Powderhorn(heresay only) is I already shoot trap,skeet and clays(badly). That is not going to gertify me to give the boys that experience. Any rock climbing is not going to certify me. The training appears to be a mile wide and one inch deep.

I think in Upstate NY an SM should know how to:

Safely backpack for 5 days

use a compass and a map(the gps can come later) the compass has been around alot longer. including a small night movement with a compass and a map.

know group size regs for your neck of the woods.

obvously E-prep for this locale

water and field sanitation

fishing

hiking and load reduction techniques

cook a variety of foods

Safely canoe trip 5 days

Winter camp for 3 days

That is a fairly tall order but if you can do all that you can surely sit around at a council camporee field for a weekend end and make it to the cooler in the Troop trailer to get a pepsi.

I would be in favor of having a knot for the DC award.

I don't think anybody wanted to drive him away but I sure can get passionate when I think folks are missing an opportunity. I must also remember that I did not listen to too many people when I was that age.

It was too late for a lot of things before I realized a lot could be learned from somebody who had walked the trail before I did. They knew where the pot holes and piles of dog poop were, they also knew where they had missed the sunsets and found the easiest walking.

So why don't we give individual waivers for driving, drinking, heck Barack should have been the POTUS at 25 instead of after 35.

As long as we are giving waivers my daughter has always said I act like a 75 year old, can we start my sociaL security now BEFORE ALL THE MONEY IS GONE. I'm a nice guy start it now.

The original post says "Does this sound fair?" if this kid was that mature he would know not to use that statement. FAIR is where you ride the ferris wheel and avoid stepping in elephant manure.

Sorry lad you have to wait. There is nothing fair or unfair about it.

Talking about what it was for a requirement long ago is like talking about yesterdays stock price you can't by it for that so why consider it. This Scout has to think about today.

Guns are graded by a "blue book" go to a gun shop and ask to see what they might be worth in the blue book. Any gun shop worthy of the name should show you.

Who made these? Winchester?

Kids like this blast right through the program getting all the boxes checked never really leading peers, never backpacking, never seeing the fog burn off a lake he had to portage to 20 miles to nowhere listening to loons and owls, hearing a raven gurgle.

Go right ahead, get em' all checked off and be the youngest Eagle ever.

I wonder if somebody is grabbing him by the wrist hustling him along? Stop and smell the roses kid you're only a boy once.

Take a look at Michael Jackson (freak that he was) rushed to adulthood he spent millions with the Neverland ranch, trying to be a kid again. He found out you can never go back.

Have you earned the map and compass PIN? Can you orient a map? Did you set up the pulleys in the Engineer Activity badge and show how the load is reduced?

There is a whole banquet, a virtual buffet of activities, you are short changing yourself if you go through the drive through.

No I am not positive, you are blowing through town passing every red light and the devil may care what happens to others that may have to depend on you or jump out of your way.

I would not want to be your Patrol leader in a boy led Troop, not that I think you'll pick that over the numerous Eagle mills that will satisfy your time clock.

Sorry if you see my truthful response as unkind. Frankly I'm telling you the kindest advice of all, never grow up too fast.

Christmas,your first kiss, and a ton of other things are to be savored not rushed because the next thing after adulthood isn't very much fun. Heaven can wait, I wish I still had my first BB gun and was still collecting bottles for BB's and those balsa planes that you could buy for 69 cents or even the $1.29 one with the plastic propeller. Being able to ride my bike to the store was a lot more fun than driving to work.

I'm an SM and probably in some eyes not a very good one.The fist thing I would tell you is to go open your bear book and build a crystal radio with your Dad and enjoy the magic in that. I'd give everything I own to buid mine with my Dad again.

thank you

Does anybody have a bio for him. Life, death, early life, occupation etc?

Thae typical google search did not come up with much

Perhaps Love?????????

C'mon!!!!!!!

No actually I really like that song. I heard in an interview they were both worried that folks would get the wrong idea about the song.

I secretly have a double CD with Denver and the song is on there. It is a beautiful song. The mix of folk and opera is something. Leaving on a jet plane is better with Denver than PPM.

Provide them the correct program until they are 11 years old or get the AOL.

IF a DE "ordered" me to do that I would be in his boss' office the next morning.

I applaud your actions but I would have made my feelings known among his adults, your adults and the Ranger, maybe the Council and the district too.

You had a paper that said he was dead wrong, he should have not been so high and mightly adding 30 more people to the wrong site it doesn't make him right. If I was him the first activity the next morning would have been to move to my correct site with an explanation that MR uz2bnowl got it wrong and exihibut the proper action by moving.

Both Troops of boys would have learned the proper thing to do....isn't that what we are here for?????