theysawyoucomin'

My wife said to me "Yeah that was him and TV wrestling is real!"

On Mike Rowe's entrance:

Scouts a lot---I was sitting next to a guy that owns an excavation company and said to him"Good thing OSHA ain't here"

He said "NO (doo doo)"

Was that him? I've gotten a couple different answers.

I thought he did.

Hey folks here's a story about mini the moocha

she was a low down hooochy koocha

HIDY HIDY HIDY HIIIII !!!!!!!!!!

while you are at it get Oh, Brother where art thou"

Do Not SEEK the Treasure!!!!!!

I RUNNED O-F-T

Never trust a Hogwollop!

Short,

I understand your point and that is why I did not go near my son's sub camp all day long

My son was in line at the Trading post at 7am. He was even fully dressed.

I spoke to some Venture folks the night before they arrived at 9 am Friday and did not get in until 11.

I drove from Albany NY to get there, if an MP sergeant suggests 5 am I'll take his word. I was a SGT once and would never tell two civilians bum scoop.

Based on SGT SCHMUCK's(not his real name) advice, I did expect to wait 4 hours INSIDE the facility. I would have slept in my car just nicely at a parking lot or staging facility as I had been told.

Heck,

I waited in the Arena for 4 hours from 4 to 8 when it started.

When the gate did open at about 0615, there were 100's of Military and Civillian folks standing and waiting for people to be parked ect. Every Marine can play "hurry up and wait" (in fact ask any Marine it is an art form) but these forks would have had to stand waiting for another 2 1/2 hours for us to be let in.

Sorry for the 6 posts the other night the wifi I was on was not registering.

Mrs. Murphy: May I help you boys?

Elwood: You got any white bread?

Mrs. Murphy: Yes.

Elwood: I'll have some toasted white bread please.

Mrs. Murphy: You want butter or jam on that toast, honey?

Elwood: No ma'am, dry.

[Mrs. Murphy gives him a look, then turns to Jake]

Jake: Got any fried chicken?

Mrs. Murphy: Best damn chicken in the state.

Jake: Bring me four fried chickens and a Coke.

Mrs. Murphy: You want chicken wings or chicken legs?

Jake: Four fried chickens and a Coke.

Elwood: And some dry white toast please.

Mrs. Murphy: Y'all want anything to drink with that?

Elwood: No ma'am.

Jake: A Coke.

Mrs. Murphy: Be up in a minute

(FULL OF SARCASM) Two white guys just came in. The short fat one whats six fried chickens and a coke.

JAKE!!!!

The tall skinny one wants some dry white toast!

ELWOOD!!!!

OH NO YOU BETTER THINK ABOUT IT!!!!-----THEY STILL OWE YOU MONEY FOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not exact but you get the idea.

I have to go list to some John Lee Hoooker. Boom boom boom

She knocks me out---- right offa my feet.

Saw it 7 times at the movie theatre. They came to Saratoga Performing Arts Center and the first thing they said was "Behave there ain't no chicken wire between us"

I walked through the Sea Scout booth at Jambo.

I would think the Boating Manufacturers organizations would be fostering this movement.

The child that boats may someday buy a boat, DUUUUUUH.

The booth was well manned and had fans blowing through it. Welcome feeling.

I read wooden boat alot and dream, there is boats for free in there every month---granted they are basket cases but I own a row boat and a canoe. I'm not a boat guy. We need some good men for this movement.

This is my first chance to see a Jambo. I thought by and large the Arena show went well.

I also know I am a very old 48 year old man and the Arena show is for boys.

I thought Mike Rowe was OUTSTANDING. I watch Dirty Jobs every now and again, not a regular. His words resonated with me and I hope with my son. I heralded the jobs done by real men and women. It spoke of struggles and uncertainty that we all must deal with everyday. A good mix of humor rounded it out. I hope it is on youtube or something because it was good and though he spoke of the past he could have been talking about last night's Troop meeting anywhere in America. Bully for you Mike Rowe!!!!!!!!

Thank you to the Bechtel family for you generous donation to America----please spend some time up there while the boys are there, every smiling kid that is upifted by Scouting is a small pay back for your gift.

I really disliked the AT&T promotion. I did not like watching two idiots try to play guitar hero while maybe 100,000 people watched.

I won't comment here on Mr. Obama as I have said my opinion on another thread.

I very much liked the film of BP and thought there should have been much more old footage. I like seeing the celebrities pictures that were scouts in their youth. I never Napolean Dynamite, Richard Gere and Jim Morrison were Scouts.

Anybody else have an opinion? I would like to know what the boys thought.

At 1700 on Friday we did our recon. Some Army Sgt MP told us we should be there at 0500.

At that time we got our vehicle inspected. The inspection went fast and was really kind of useless, if anybody wants to know why just ask.

Next morning up and at 'em at 0345 do the three S's and on the road. Get to main gate at 0520, we are told nobody will enter until 0900. The PFC Mp was the soul of tact and bearing. I explained what I had been told but no dice. Again the soul of tact and bearing. We used to say a Marine on duty has no friends, I'm sure the 'corps still does and I'd imagine the Army says something similar.

Turn the car around to leave and park 50 away from the gate area. Tell wife what our status is and ,"Wait here". I walk back to the PFC's and tell them I want to see their Sgt or NCOIC. They ask what for. I tell them," You are doing your job,I have no problem with you, now please go get your SGT.

A SSGT finally comes from someplace(SSGT's are busy people, I used to be one). I calmly discuss the fact the an MP Sgt suggested I get here at 0500. He asked, "Sir are you sure he did not say 0900 and you made a mistake?" I told him that I was a SSGT and clearly know the operational difference between 05 and 09.

I told i'm was so angry that i could start yelling and screaming like an idiot and cause a big scene. I told him that would probably not help my case. He said, "You're right". Remember these folks have guns and mace.

After telling him I would write a letter to the CG about the SGT from yesterday I left.

Wife is livid at this time and it is 0545. MP's suggest we wait in Bowling Green which is 4 miles away.

Not knowing what to do but ruling out Bowling Green we finally park at a restaurant with some other dejected souls. The restaurant had NEW YORK in the name. A small crowd of vehicles gathers and we see a green Subaru of Venture aged young men making the loop down 301 to the gate and coming back. We begin to recognize other vehicles as the crowd of 20 swells and we see the "kayak car"(car simply has a kayak mounted) take a few laps. I told my wife," I will take a lawn chair and sit down there while you all stage here and call you and let you know when the traffic starts to flow." Wife does not wish to be left with strangers.

Wife and go down and have another look after cell ph # were exchanged to alert the folks staged at the restaurant.

A line of cars is beginning to form on the far side. We go get in said line knowing we could be told to move by Va. State police at anytime.

After 30 tense minutes they start letting cars go thru and the folks back at the staging area(restaurant) are alerted and start piling into their vehicles like young British fighter pilots during the Battle of Britain.

This is not the most epic story of the day, but it was frustrating and stressful to be told to get there at a certain time by a person with some knowledge only to be told you will not even be allowed to get in line for 3 1/2 hours.

I'll tell you about what happened getting it but right now I can't keep my eyes open.

I did hear some boos.

At best the applause was lukewarm. Kids hear what their parents are saying. The opinions kids have for the most part come from their parents. Granted some kids truly form their own opinion.

Pollsters often poll kids before elections. They are very accurate when it comes to election day. That is not a coincidence.

I seem to remember food and garbage thrown at the presidential limo on Inauguration day a few years back I don't remember a public outcry then. My Scouts thought Mr. Bush was a moron because mommy and daddy said so.

I personally kept quiet during Mr. Obama's speech and after.

As for the Scouts booing look at the environment they have been raised in. My boy is 15 1/2, recent memory has not had either side behaving nicely.

I put a lot of time in making sure they can boo and not be arrested. Let's keep it that way.

Arrived today at 4:50pm did not try to get in, just reconned gates and got a parking pass . Parking was a bit of a mess but what can you expect. Me and Mrs Uz are going to arrive at 5 am to insure we get in. I'll let you know what happens.

There sure are a lot of red traffic lights in Va. and every one is red!!!

Two kinds of drivers here the slow and gentle type and then the kind that have seen how us native New Yawkers drive and they are trying to copy it.

Arrived today at 4:50pm did not try to get in, just reconned gates and got a parking pass . Parking was a bit of a mess but what can you expect. Me and Mrs Uz are going to arrive at 5 am to insure we get in. I'll let you know what happens.

There sure are a lot of red traffic lights in Va. and every one is red!!!

Two kinds of drivers here the slow and gentle type and then the kind that have seen how us native New Yawkers drive and they are trying to copy it.

Have the DC go to DC training(a must if he is to make his cord red,white,blue)

Meet with the Scoutmaster, DC,DC parents, and DL.Talk about the expectations for this position. This is a position that I have seen a boy use for Life and Eagle rank.

Get the DC the Cub book for the year of the boys he serves. I don't see how you can possibly be effective without knowing the material.

Guide the DC towards making his cord red,white and blue. Easy to do if the DC is doing his job(As BP says about advancememnt"like getting a tan in the outdoors while having fun) or something like it.

The DC parents play a huge role in this. Added transportation, added runs to the store for materials, helping the boy prepare. YET THEY DO NOT DO THE JOB FOR THE DC. DC's parent should go have a cuppa decafe and read the paper while DC does his thing. Parent is not to facilitate the DC's actions at the meeting. The boy "earns his stripes " by doing this. "Dad please let me do this"

This and leading a patrol can be the best two positions for a boy if it is handled properly

Trading Post is getting sparse already.

You mean all this Chinese made crap with the Jambo logo is going to be scarfed up by a bunch of adults before my kid even gets there?

Why would you even bring that stuff out before the kids got there?

Because the staff is made up of volunteers that "deserve" to buy the crap first?

My Boy left this morning.

One kid in his Troop left his required picture ID in Maine of all places. I started to hear how indignant the boy was to the Jambo SM and had to walk away. Sure hope they let him in, sure hope the OVERNIGHT FEDEX man finds him somewhere on the planet, they have been harping on the photo ID requirement for months.

I live about 15 minutes from the Bethlehem man who was arrested for tackling a kid that was wilding his house. What in the world are kids thinking?

I've been away from this board for a good year it seems, probably to the great joy of many, and this is still being beaten around?

We could double at amount of people that would complain about advancements, that would be great!!

There is already venturing.

I think it would be horrible.

Cue the HELICOPTERs PARENTs!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell them there is a lovely Troop in (fill in neighboring town) that would help you reach your goal.

For only having 5.1 % of the world's population how did we get stuck with so many &$$^@!@$

Let's suck the fun and adventure out of everything!!!!!

Seriously,

I would have said why don't you wait to see what happens after your son has spent one month in the Troop before we knight him.

Ev,

The Scout must be removed. I will qoute it chapter and verse tonight off the Scouting website.

It's too darn bad it has to be that way but the box checkers have taken over and Idealists don't stand a chance against the helicopter parent generation. Trouble is these little sheltered waifs will be running the country whilst I'm sitting on the porch waiting for the dirt nap.

I cannot read the boy's mind. I didn't mean that in a snotty way. I am appreciative of all the comments here.

2 options

The boy leaves right away.

Well he has been awarded something that some in the Troop feel was minimally gained. Boy may use my misgivings as "Mr. Gates doesn't like me so I'm quitting."

If he wanted to leave anyway I give him a great excuse.

Does that happen to the top 3%??????? Why would you leave some place you were just told you were "better" than 97% of the other applicants. Any knights feel like leaving the kingdom after being knighted?

Boy stays. Possible. But then why not do the NYLT or some other POR then get Eagle. If he is staying what's the rush? All MB's done . Project done. Take a breath and have fun. Build a surfboard in the composite materials MB. Add to that resume before going to the BOR.Leave the place better than you found it. Heck you're Eagle material at least you got the boxes checked. Mentor the youngest boys in the Troop. Live it.

Boy has never backpacked(it's not required), boy did COPE, how about rock climbing MB? Eat from all places on the Scouting buffet!!!!

Some boys would never think of going on a 50 miler until physically mature why make Eagle if you are not emotionally mature?

Why would we award something and then hope for the growth later on.

When does success come before work?

It was never my intent to pull the boy from his Den.

We have another Scout an ASPL that meets one meeting a month with "his" den and he is still the ASPL. Nothing to be gained by being a DC again. Just love of the job. Has gone to camp twice with his kids. Will probably go to camp again with them. This boy realizes that DC is not the only thing for a POR just like two other Eagles before him. That is three boys that went on to peer leadership after being a DC.

I found this post from Beavah. I think it is timely for this discussion.

RE: Eagle and the Minimums

Posted: Wednesday, 11/11/2009: 8:35:12 PM quality

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What if we respected each other enough to know that if a unit puts out an Eagle Candidate we all know that the boy has done everything he is supposed to and has fulfilled the requirements and lives the oath and law.

I reckon we do. Leastways, I've never seen a scouter anywhere give an Eagle a hard time. Da reaction to kids is just what we find in this thread with kenk's son, eh? Congratulations.

These issues come up on da forums when people are askin' or wonderin' about what standards they should set within their troop to do right by kids. What makes for the best program, or how does someone improve their program. It's not about individual boys. So we give these fellow scouters advice to do what makes sense in terms of developing character, or to follow da requirements, or whatever. We're tryin' to help 'em help boys.

Now, I have seen boys not respect Eagles whom they felt didn't measure up or got an easy pass from da adults or whatnot. Again, that's an internal issue for a troop, eh? But it's vitally important for teachin' character and how we use the advancement method. If good kids like CrossRamWedge's son see boys gettin' Eagle on technicalities rather than real skills and character, it devalues and undermines the entire advancement program in their eyes. Really does awful things to the program, or it does awful things socially to the scout who got da "easy bye" that the other boys don't accept.

I've also talked with employers who no longer hire Eagle Scouts because of bad experiences with 'em. Da sense is that Eagles feel entitled and seem to expect others to do the work to make 'em succeed. They're not go-getters. Perhaps that's a result of da just-do-the-minimums approach to advancement, perhaps its just this couple of employers happened to have a bad run of kids. Still doesn't help da program or the other boys in it.

Beavah

If the boys are watching(they are) , we live in a tiny town, what message are we sending?

Calico,

I have not signed anything.

The boy asked for a SC.

I took the boy aside at a Troop Meeting and made my feelings known to him with several breaches of the Law.

I also made my feelings known to the Scout concerning growth at NYLT and through being PL or the SPL.

I told him I would have a hard time recommending he go forward at this time. All done in a helping manner.

I maintain that a week at NYLT and 6 months in a peer leadership position would lead to a much better leader than we have today. Is not this what's best for the boy?

I was hoping for a parent that would say what my mother would have said, "You heard what he told you now do it."

Father feels I am moving the goal post after the kick.

I don't know why I'm asking for all this as the Scout could very grudgingly go through the motions of being the SPL and that could backfire on the boys that really want to soar.

I have no problem with how he did as a DC. At his life SC I asked how many boys he served He said 20 there was really 10.

I asked what Cub Year they were in . He did not know. I told him to close his eyes and picture a boy. :What necker is that boy wearing?(the boy was a tiger through WEEB and AOL, he knows the colors)

Boy still could not answer. I advanced the boy to Life, no harm done the DL said he did well. The Cubs like him alot.. Many of them will be Boy Scouts because of his work.

None of this addresses the other issues I have brought up.

Part of me tells me my "give a rat's rear end" is near busted. Helping the Scout grow and mature isn't making me any thinner, richer or more attractive to the opposite sex, or making my whites whiter right from the washer(like any of those products sold on TV)

Caring sucks.

The rest of the story.

The boy does not obey Scouts elected over him.

He is immature. (As many 14 year olds are---but only one 14 year old is going up for a BOR/SCC).

I would really like to see this young man try to lead people that are just like him.

There is no requirement for a boy to be a PL or SPL. What if no boy steps forward to do this? In that world have no camping trips so boys can earn the Camping MB. After all we are in the Minimalist World where nobody has to lead the Troop. Everybody gets to be the Bugler because that is a POR.

The boy was a Den Chief the entire year last year. Achieved Life in mid March.

The Sept election of new Troop billets(had he shown up) I would have explained to him that I would not select him to be the DC this year and he should get elected or be selected by his SPL for something new.

Prior to the start of the boys Eagle project I told his Dad I wanted him to be in a new billet for Eagle POR.

The boy was shocked that he would have to wait until elections.

Thinking that I may be wrong in all this, I offered him OA rep. 6 months of OA chapter meetings a report of 5 minutes or less each month at a Troop meeting and boom a new POR.

Boy refused, he wants it NOW.

So while he breaches the Scout law as I see it every other box is checked because he slid the new POR past.

As his SM I'm not signing the paper. Am I right or wrong?

The Accountants of the Scout advancement world say yes.

The Idealist may say he needs more time. I also say that.

Who knows if he can get the right BOR to say "it's OK Johnny the SM is picking on you"

Top 3% of the movement? Not quite yet. 6 months of a peer led position or something else, then I don't have a leg to stand on.

Curious, His age has nothing to do with it. Just stating he is not 17 and 180 days. He is 14 and when it comes to making the whole thing work he acts somewhat less.

Gern, it is not a cut and dry as you first thought. Does the guy close to the action, the guy that observes, does that guy still have a say. Or, is it all about getting the boxes checked?

John(Redleg)---the CC,COR,DAC,Commish ,TAC,parent were all at a meeting

Not harsh Eamon,

If I am guilty of anything it is not knowing this boy was rushing to the EXIT. At his SC for Life he did not say that at 14 1/2 I'm pushing for Eagle.

The boy has been steadily(sp?) spoke to concerning the Scout law. He is not a Feloniuos(sp?) offender. He is a boy that has no respect for that glue that holds a Scout troop together, when your SPL or PL asks you to do something YOU DO IT.

I was his Weeb leader and CC,SC and a committee member for the Troop.

The boy was not selected for DC as his POR this year. It was not my intention to trip him up at 5 months and 15 days if DC for Eagle, it is my desire for him to experience some other billet within the Troop. I will not sign the paper because he is not ready to follow,HOW GOOD OF A LEADER CAN HE BE?

I am a Scoutmaster.

If I am asking this question you know that I think the boy isn't ready to be an Eagle.

Is it contrary to sign a Scout's Eagle form and then tell the Board or Review that you have misgivings about the boy making Eagle at this time?

WHAT IN FACT ARE YOU SAYING WHEN YOU SIGN THE FORM?

Not yelling just don't know how to underline. If they don't need my signature as the SM why not just go to the Board?

DAC stormed out of a meeting we had on the subject this evening. He said, "You are making a mountain out of a molehill". I guess as a Scoutmaster your concerns don't amount to much.

Ready to resign immediately.

UC was at the same meeting concerning this advancement and said 5 months and 10 days were close enough to six months. This is not the only issue.

The Scout will make Eagle someday but if he is looking for it right now he does not have my edorsement. Boy is 14 1/2 yrs old.

Maybe I was just born too late but the picture on the 4 cent stamp of a boy scout giving the Scout sign looked ok to me.

Stosh,

This is not an older boy. Last June he was still 13.

He became a Boy Scout at 10 years seven months. Today he is 14 and 4 months

Your quote:

So what if this DC deals with people younger than him. Why should he have to deal with his peers? Teachers don't normally teach their peers, pastors don't either. Bosses don't teach their peers. So why would be want our DC's to split their duties and undermine their obligations to the den by having the boy do double duty elsewhere?

First I would say DC is not a lifelong commitment from Wolf to WEEB2. I know boys that do it but they also go on to other things, and hold other positions. So the Double duty thing is moot. Some Cubs are sorry to lose the DC. As a DL I reminded the Cubs, "Chucky is in the Troop, we will see him again".

If you promote from within you will probably lead your peers. Serve as president of the debate team in college you lead your peers. Mentor a younger teacher after being there for two years---peer.

I could go on.

I thought you said you were in the military. Your are an E3 one day the next you are an NCO. Monday you're buddies,

Friday your buddies need to sweep the floor because you said so.

If you never go in the military you may still meet up with this situation.

The Cub Scout motto has a place here. Is the best the boy can do leading kids 6 years his junior? Could he profit from NYLT and being an SPL, aspl or pl?

Why be an Eagle at 14? I've got a Dad who tells his son, "don't go on the 50 miler now(at 14), you will like it that much better when you are ready at 16 years old."

Both Liberals and Conservatives can agree on something; our young adults could possibly face a world that is tougher in many ways than their parents world. Global warming, drinking water supply, hunger, mounting national debt,world population,yadda yadda yadda.

If so, why are we making the safe hurdles ankle high only to later smash into a brick wall?

Again I maintain 30 years ago the non helicopter parent would have said "stop your whining do what he says"

Is it possible the extra year could later be to the boy's benefit?

I believe that is under the umbrella of the Scoutmaster.

If I didn't care I would have blown him through the process like teachers used to advance the kid who never learned to read. The teach that says wait a minute this kid needs more is hated by the parents for picking on the son.

Times like this tell me I've got no business being the SM.