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Everything posted by theysawyoucomin'

  1. theysawyoucomin'

    What happens if I sign this form?

    I cannot read the boy's mind. I didn't mean that in a snotty way. I am appreciative of all the comments here. 2 options The boy leaves right away. Well he has been awarded something that some in the Troop feel was minimally gained. Boy may use my misgivings as "Mr. Gates doesn't like me so I'm quitting." If he wanted to leave anyway I give him a great excuse. Does that happen to the top 3%??????? Why would you leave some place you were just told you were "better" than 97% of the other applicants. Any knights feel like leaving the kingdom after being knighted? Boy stays. Possible. But then why not do the NYLT or some other POR then get Eagle. If he is staying what's the rush? All MB's done . Project done. Take a breath and have fun. Build a surfboard in the composite materials MB. Add to that resume before going to the BOR.Leave the place better than you found it. Heck you're Eagle material at least you got the boxes checked. Mentor the youngest boys in the Troop. Live it. Boy has never backpacked(it's not required), boy did COPE, how about rock climbing MB? Eat from all places on the Scouting buffet!!!! Some boys would never think of going on a 50 miler until physically mature why make Eagle if you are not emotionally mature? Why would we award something and then hope for the growth later on. When does success come before work? It was never my intent to pull the boy from his Den. We have another Scout an ASPL that meets one meeting a month with "his" den and he is still the ASPL. Nothing to be gained by being a DC again. Just love of the job. Has gone to camp twice with his kids. Will probably go to camp again with them. This boy realizes that DC is not the only thing for a POR just like two other Eagles before him. That is three boys that went on to peer leadership after being a DC. I found this post from Beavah. I think it is timely for this discussion. RE: Eagle and the Minimums Posted: Wednesday, 11/11/2009: 8:35:12 PM quality -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What if we respected each other enough to know that if a unit puts out an Eagle Candidate we all know that the boy has done everything he is supposed to and has fulfilled the requirements and lives the oath and law. I reckon we do. Leastways, I've never seen a scouter anywhere give an Eagle a hard time. Da reaction to kids is just what we find in this thread with kenk's son, eh? Congratulations. These issues come up on da forums when people are askin' or wonderin' about what standards they should set within their troop to do right by kids. What makes for the best program, or how does someone improve their program. It's not about individual boys. So we give these fellow scouters advice to do what makes sense in terms of developing character, or to follow da requirements, or whatever. We're tryin' to help 'em help boys. Now, I have seen boys not respect Eagles whom they felt didn't measure up or got an easy pass from da adults or whatnot. Again, that's an internal issue for a troop, eh? But it's vitally important for teachin' character and how we use the advancement method. If good kids like CrossRamWedge's son see boys gettin' Eagle on technicalities rather than real skills and character, it devalues and undermines the entire advancement program in their eyes. Really does awful things to the program, or it does awful things socially to the scout who got da "easy bye" that the other boys don't accept. I've also talked with employers who no longer hire Eagle Scouts because of bad experiences with 'em. Da sense is that Eagles feel entitled and seem to expect others to do the work to make 'em succeed. They're not go-getters. Perhaps that's a result of da just-do-the-minimums approach to advancement, perhaps its just this couple of employers happened to have a bad run of kids. Still doesn't help da program or the other boys in it. Beavah If the boys are watching(they are) , we live in a tiny town, what message are we sending?
  2. theysawyoucomin'

    What happens if I sign this form?

    Calico, I have not signed anything. The boy asked for a SC. I took the boy aside at a Troop Meeting and made my feelings known to him with several breaches of the Law. I also made my feelings known to the Scout concerning growth at NYLT and through being PL or the SPL. I told him I would have a hard time recommending he go forward at this time. All done in a helping manner. I maintain that a week at NYLT and 6 months in a peer leadership position would lead to a much better leader than we have today. Is not this what's best for the boy? I was hoping for a parent that would say what my mother would have said, "You heard what he told you now do it." Father feels I am moving the goal post after the kick. I don't know why I'm asking for all this as the Scout could very grudgingly go through the motions of being the SPL and that could backfire on the boys that really want to soar. I have no problem with how he did as a DC. At his life SC I asked how many boys he served He said 20 there was really 10. I asked what Cub Year they were in . He did not know. I told him to close his eyes and picture a boy. :What necker is that boy wearing?(the boy was a tiger through WEEB and AOL, he knows the colors) Boy still could not answer. I advanced the boy to Life, no harm done the DL said he did well. The Cubs like him alot.. Many of them will be Boy Scouts because of his work. None of this addresses the other issues I have brought up. Part of me tells me my "give a rat's rear end" is near busted. Helping the Scout grow and mature isn't making me any thinner, richer or more attractive to the opposite sex, or making my whites whiter right from the washer(like any of those products sold on TV) Caring sucks.
  3. theysawyoucomin'

    What happens if I sign this form?

    The rest of the story. The boy does not obey Scouts elected over him. He is immature. (As many 14 year olds are---but only one 14 year old is going up for a BOR/SCC). I would really like to see this young man try to lead people that are just like him. There is no requirement for a boy to be a PL or SPL. What if no boy steps forward to do this? In that world have no camping trips so boys can earn the Camping MB. After all we are in the Minimalist World where nobody has to lead the Troop. Everybody gets to be the Bugler because that is a POR. The boy was a Den Chief the entire year last year. Achieved Life in mid March. The Sept election of new Troop billets(had he shown up) I would have explained to him that I would not select him to be the DC this year and he should get elected or be selected by his SPL for something new. Prior to the start of the boys Eagle project I told his Dad I wanted him to be in a new billet for Eagle POR. The boy was shocked that he would have to wait until elections. Thinking that I may be wrong in all this, I offered him OA rep. 6 months of OA chapter meetings a report of 5 minutes or less each month at a Troop meeting and boom a new POR. Boy refused, he wants it NOW. So while he breaches the Scout law as I see it every other box is checked because he slid the new POR past. As his SM I'm not signing the paper. Am I right or wrong? The Accountants of the Scout advancement world say yes. The Idealist may say he needs more time. I also say that. Who knows if he can get the right BOR to say "it's OK Johnny the SM is picking on you" Top 3% of the movement? Not quite yet. 6 months of a peer led position or something else, then I don't have a leg to stand on. Curious, His age has nothing to do with it. Just stating he is not 17 and 180 days. He is 14 and when it comes to making the whole thing work he acts somewhat less. Gern, it is not a cut and dry as you first thought. Does the guy close to the action, the guy that observes, does that guy still have a say. Or, is it all about getting the boxes checked? John(Redleg)---the CC,COR,DAC,Commish ,TAC,parent were all at a meeting Not harsh Eamon, If I am guilty of anything it is not knowing this boy was rushing to the EXIT. At his SC for Life he did not say that at 14 1/2 I'm pushing for Eagle. The boy has been steadily(sp?) spoke to concerning the Scout law. He is not a Feloniuos(sp?) offender. He is a boy that has no respect for that glue that holds a Scout troop together, when your SPL or PL asks you to do something YOU DO IT. I was his Weeb leader and CC,SC and a committee member for the Troop. The boy was not selected for DC as his POR this year. It was not my intention to trip him up at 5 months and 15 days if DC for Eagle, it is my desire for him to experience some other billet within the Troop. I will not sign the paper because he is not ready to follow,HOW GOOD OF A LEADER CAN HE BE?
  4. theysawyoucomin'

    The Centennial Stamp

    Maybe I was just born too late but the picture on the 4 cent stamp of a boy scout giving the Scout sign looked ok to me.
  5. theysawyoucomin'

    Scoutmasters hands are tied.

    John you are so wrong about this. Here is a quiz: Who determines if a boy can be a den chief for all of his POR's? Does a boy ever have to do Troop leadership? Where does it say he canot be a den chief for his POR for star life and eagle? If the boy goes AWOL for 6 month prior to getting Eagle whose responsibility is it to maintain regular contact with the SM? The boy? The SM? If you do not fire the boy from his POr does that mean he did it good enough to be advanced? Tell me whachyall think.
  6. theysawyoucomin'

    Scoutmasters hands are tied.

    Stosh, This is not an older boy. Last June he was still 13. He became a Boy Scout at 10 years seven months. Today he is 14 and 4 months Your quote: So what if this DC deals with people younger than him. Why should he have to deal with his peers? Teachers don't normally teach their peers, pastors don't either. Bosses don't teach their peers. So why would be want our DC's to split their duties and undermine their obligations to the den by having the boy do double duty elsewhere? First I would say DC is not a lifelong commitment from Wolf to WEEB2. I know boys that do it but they also go on to other things, and hold other positions. So the Double duty thing is moot. Some Cubs are sorry to lose the DC. As a DL I reminded the Cubs, "Chucky is in the Troop, we will see him again". If you promote from within you will probably lead your peers. Serve as president of the debate team in college you lead your peers. Mentor a younger teacher after being there for two years---peer. I could go on. I thought you said you were in the military. Your are an E3 one day the next you are an NCO. Monday you're buddies, Friday your buddies need to sweep the floor because you said so. If you never go in the military you may still meet up with this situation. The Cub Scout motto has a place here. Is the best the boy can do leading kids 6 years his junior? Could he profit from NYLT and being an SPL, aspl or pl? Why be an Eagle at 14? I've got a Dad who tells his son, "don't go on the 50 miler now(at 14), you will like it that much better when you are ready at 16 years old." Both Liberals and Conservatives can agree on something; our young adults could possibly face a world that is tougher in many ways than their parents world. Global warming, drinking water supply, hunger, mounting national debt,world population,yadda yadda yadda. If so, why are we making the safe hurdles ankle high only to later smash into a brick wall? Again I maintain 30 years ago the non helicopter parent would have said "stop your whining do what he says" Is it possible the extra year could later be to the boy's benefit? I believe that is under the umbrella of the Scoutmaster. If I didn't care I would have blown him through the process like teachers used to advance the kid who never learned to read. The teach that says wait a minute this kid needs more is hated by the parents for picking on the son. Times like this tell me I've got no business being the SM.
  7. theysawyoucomin'

    Scoutmasters hands are tied.

    Thank you all for your opinions and references. This boy will be an Eagle someday and I will proudly stand with him. But folks the cake isn't quite done yet. A week at NYLT and a year of PL or SPL would lead to a life change for this boy
  8. theysawyoucomin'

    Scoutmasters hands are tied.

    Actually Ev, Oak has it correct. According to the National site you do have to relieve/fire/take his position away or you have to have the position count. On to the different POR topic. If my Scoutmaster had ever said to me "I want you to do a different POR for Eagle than you did for Life". There would not have ever been a question. This boy did not show for the elections in Sept. If I cried to my mommy, she would have said, "Do what you are told." Right now I've got a kid whose parent does not believe the Scoutmaster appoints the DC. Boy is currently 14 and 4 months. I helped the boy find the position last year. In August I told the fahter I expect some other POR. I feel this is within my area as far as being the SM. WHAT SAY YOU? The positions allow for command and staff type duty, the DC may lead but it sure isn't the same as a PL. We are a Troop with 15 boys split into 2 patrols plus "HQ" We have a history of our DC's going on to do good things like SPL ASPL a third boy boy PL and ASPL and still two years from Eagle (by his choice) I think DC is a great position my son was one, I had one for two years when I DL'ed. One of my five wood Badge goals included writing/compiling a 200 page book about being a DC and a bunch of just for fun activities. Every den in America needs one. This Microwave Eagle stuff has to stop. Make the kid lead kids his age. It is easier to lead kids 6 years your junior than your peers. EGHIG, Would this rule hold up in an appeal to your council? I feel it would for the same reason the SM approves the PORs
  9. theysawyoucomin'

    save yourself

    We all scuffle and argue on this part of the site but I would like to reach some common ground here and tell you all how to collectively save millions of taxpayers money. Do not go see the movie the Informant. Oh my goodness Matt Damon and george Clooney owe me $7.95. Worse than Leatherheads.
  10. theysawyoucomin'

    Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize

    Seems like justice to have a "redistributionist" win. After all Woodrow Wilson the seggregationist and man who lent street cred to "Birth of a Nation" won it. Yasser Arafat , man who bilked his people out of millions, there is somebody else to look up to. Good to know the folks in Norway are under the hypnotic spell. Great form Calico Penn. Squashing opinion is the way to roll, telling folks to STFU always wins the discussion. OK you're right, he deserves the award.
  11. theysawyoucomin'

    Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize

    Seems like justice to have a "redistributionist" win. After all Woodrow Wilson the seggregationist and man who lent street cred to "Birth of a Nation" won it. Yasser Arafat , man who bilked his people out of millions, there is somebody else to look up to. Good to know the folks in Norway are under the hypnotic spell. Great form Calico Penn. Squashing opinion is the way to roll, telling folks to STFU always wins the discussion. OK you're right, he deserves the award.
  12. theysawyoucomin'

    101 Days Late

    In NY state this was rountine I think our record is something like 144 days late Posted: April 01, 2009 - 7:25 AM ALBANY (AP) -- Democrats who control state government said they crafted the $131.8 billion budget in historic secrecy so they could pass it on time, but they missed the April 1 deadline for the third straight year anyway. Adoption of the budget Wednesday will be New York's 23rd late budget in the past 25 years. The spending plan includes a near-record 8.7 percent increase in spending and $7 billion in new or higher taxes and fees. The morons keep electing the idiots to run the gov't.
  13. theysawyoucomin'

    kids these days....

    From the notes of the Troop committee Meeting for my Troop. "Any Scout climbing out a window and on to the roof of the Village Hall shall be suspended from this Troop." 16 May 1941 what the heck is the world comming to?!?!?!!?!
  14. theysawyoucomin'

    Scouting article - Cub Cold Weather Camping

    I am kind of wondering what national will call camping. We don't have too many cubs with a sleeping bag equal to Upstate NY winters. Remember we held 2 Winter Olympic games here. This trip we did was just right with what amounted to the kids spending all day outdoors and sleeping in a heated building at night. Kind of like home except the kids went outside and I keep my home about like meat locker all winter. Fuel oil costs money y'know. At that age most of my kids had a theme type sleeping bag , I don't know if Barney or SpongeBob is equal to old man winter. Despite all that I know they had a safe, fun time "camping" in the winter on a "Freezeout". For Boy Scouts I do not think you are camping unless it is under nylon, canvas, or a leanto that you humped a pack to.
  15. theysawyoucomin'

    Any ideas for combining two ranks into one den meeting per week?

    I never was a Tiger leader. Led wof thru Crossover and now I am an SM. I did attend every Tiger meeting though. The best suggestion I heard was to stagger the meetings. As far as asking a parent to step up, that reminds me of the British Navy's press gangs of old looking for sailors in every seedy joint by the docks. Ask each parent to do shared leadership. I did two meetings then---because I wanted to. Others did one. Some who as luck would have it had the worst behaved kids did none. funny how that works. Sometimes folks will step forward when they see others. You still remain the leader you just get alot of help and guide the parents along. As a good leader you are going to have some fun ready because you know one of those parents is going to let you down. Thank you for helping all those boys grow.
  16. theysawyoucomin'

    Scouting article - Cub Cold Weather Camping

    Twin Rivers council has the "Snow and Do". Teaching ice fishing was one of my WB tickets. I've brought kids overnight W/ a tour permit to a heated council cabin, every boy having a parent there. We went sleigh riding but don't let National know I'm sure the lawyers would think sledding too dangerous and abolish it. Was admonished here for calling it family camping. It really was a great time DO cooking, sledding, ice fishing, "Cremation of Sam McGee" around the fire with popcorn from DO. Cabin was so warm kids had a hard time sleeping.
  17. theysawyoucomin'

    kids these days....

    2cub, 5 of them later were killed. That is one of the reasons I always spread the word about the Gold Stars on the Troop Flag. 2 Marines and 3 soldiers. We still meet in the same place.
  18. theysawyoucomin'

    Moving Away From Sewing CS Patches?

    I always love reading on the internet about sewing. In a world where the international space station barely gets news---sewing of all things-- is an insurmountable chore.
  19. theysawyoucomin'

    Bear Achievement 8 the past is exciting

    Play Marbles. Build a crystal radio. There are hundreds of examples of "radio for the masses" and radio ownership growing in the teens, twentys and 1930's. Walk through an old cemetery. ask the boys to note how old people were. Relate it to todays swine flu and vaccinations. Talk about occupations that are not there anymore. Find and visit a woodworker that only works by hand. Go to an archive and show them a city directory prior to phones. Many wonderful adds and occupations there. Discuss the roles of men and women. Talk about job safety and how that has changed. Borrow a dutch oven froma Troop and make an apple pie. Discuss cooking methods over a fire. Visit a nursing school and talk about medicine/health issues. Research every day products like Lifesavers candy and others. Pepsi went belly up sveral times before success. Cracker jacks came on the market with hundreds of carmel corns . The prize mattered. Look for an old farm machinery group in your area. Those old grumps love to show off thier machinery. If you need some pages copied from the 1930 cub book pm me and I can show you old requirements.
  20. I too am late to the discussion. I would certainly hope life experience would count and allow you to "CLEP" some of this course. As a former infantry platoon sgt I'm not going to want to listen to an "experienced " trainer tell me how to sleep under canvas. In some cases the folks who teach IOLS don't have the most experience. As the same time what I really needed was age appropriate skills to work with the boys. Much of the skills needed in the outdoors come from good judgement. Good judgement often comes from bad experiences, they come from bad judgement. The only problem I have with Powderhorn(heresay only) is I already shoot trap,skeet and clays(badly). That is not going to gertify me to give the boys that experience. Any rock climbing is not going to certify me. The training appears to be a mile wide and one inch deep. I think in Upstate NY an SM should know how to: Safely backpack for 5 days use a compass and a map(the gps can come later) the compass has been around alot longer. including a small night movement with a compass and a map. know group size regs for your neck of the woods. obvously E-prep for this locale water and field sanitation fishing hiking and load reduction techniques cook a variety of foods Safely canoe trip 5 days Winter camp for 3 days That is a fairly tall order but if you can do all that you can surely sit around at a council camporee field for a weekend end and make it to the cooler in the Troop trailer to get a pepsi.
  21. theysawyoucomin'

    Den Chief Service Award

    I would be in favor of having a knot for the DC award.
  22. theysawyoucomin'

    Arrow of Light at 9 years old

    I don't think anybody wanted to drive him away but I sure can get passionate when I think folks are missing an opportunity. I must also remember that I did not listen to too many people when I was that age. It was too late for a lot of things before I realized a lot could be learned from somebody who had walked the trail before I did. They knew where the pot holes and piles of dog poop were, they also knew where they had missed the sunsets and found the easiest walking.
  23. theysawyoucomin'

    Arrow of Light at 9 years old

    So why don't we give individual waivers for driving, drinking, heck Barack should have been the POTUS at 25 instead of after 35. As long as we are giving waivers my daughter has always said I act like a 75 year old, can we start my sociaL security now BEFORE ALL THE MONEY IS GONE. I'm a nice guy start it now. The original post says "Does this sound fair?" if this kid was that mature he would know not to use that statement. FAIR is where you ride the ferris wheel and avoid stepping in elephant manure. Sorry lad you have to wait. There is nothing fair or unfair about it. Talking about what it was for a requirement long ago is like talking about yesterdays stock price you can't by it for that so why consider it. This Scout has to think about today.
  24. theysawyoucomin'

    Eagle Scout Rifle Set

    Guns are graded by a "blue book" go to a gun shop and ask to see what they might be worth in the blue book. Any gun shop worthy of the name should show you. Who made these? Winchester?
  25. theysawyoucomin'

    Arrow of Light at 9 years old

    Kids like this blast right through the program getting all the boxes checked never really leading peers, never backpacking, never seeing the fog burn off a lake he had to portage to 20 miles to nowhere listening to loons and owls, hearing a raven gurgle. Go right ahead, get em' all checked off and be the youngest Eagle ever. I wonder if somebody is grabbing him by the wrist hustling him along? Stop and smell the roses kid you're only a boy once. Take a look at Michael Jackson (freak that he was) rushed to adulthood he spent millions with the Neverland ranch, trying to be a kid again. He found out you can never go back. Have you earned the map and compass PIN? Can you orient a map? Did you set up the pulleys in the Engineer Activity badge and show how the load is reduced? There is a whole banquet, a virtual buffet of activities, you are short changing yourself if you go through the drive through. No I am not positive, you are blowing through town passing every red light and the devil may care what happens to others that may have to depend on you or jump out of your way. I would not want to be your Patrol leader in a boy led Troop, not that I think you'll pick that over the numerous Eagle mills that will satisfy your time clock. Sorry if you see my truthful response as unkind. Frankly I'm telling you the kindest advice of all, never grow up too fast. Christmas,your first kiss, and a ton of other things are to be savored not rushed because the next thing after adulthood isn't very much fun. Heaven can wait, I wish I still had my first BB gun and was still collecting bottles for BB's and those balsa planes that you could buy for 69 cents or even the $1.29 one with the plastic propeller. Being able to ride my bike to the store was a lot more fun than driving to work. I'm an SM and probably in some eyes not a very good one.The fist thing I would tell you is to go open your bear book and build a crystal radio with your Dad and enjoy the magic in that. I'd give everything I own to buid mine with my Dad again.