Tampa Turtle

To preface, I mostly work with 1st and 2nd year scouts as a ASM.

Duty to God - If a boy is honest and has doubts and aint just feeling it--I give him the benefit of a doubt of course. I ask him to keep looking for the answer --be not so sure at his age if he know it --be respectful of his families and others beliefs. If he was shouting "there is no God!" yea I would have a problem too. Unfortunately many of the boys I work with have very weak parental religious role models. Also how are the Adult Leaders modeling Duty to God. I would crack down on the OMG's as well--they are disrespectful of others at the very least.

Uniform - I read in my old (1942?) scout manual (I think) that it mentioned that young boys like to wear the uniform because they identify with older boys and men and older boys resist wearing it to show independence. I think that is still true. There are other pressures here. During Vietnam I was a cub and called "baby killer" for wearing the uniform by much older kids. I stopped wearing it and was kicked out by my Cubmaster. So my personal policy is they better wear it and properly at scout events and meetings and after is there own decision.

Scout Spirit -- So many boys today are such smarts a__ses I must urge them to embrace scout spirit in everyday behavior...again the culture makes this difficult. If a kid has a big "incident" I discuss it with them and contrast with how he should have acted. Boys do some really bone-headed things sometimes, too; however I would hold such a boy's feet to the fire during scout spirit, BOR, and SM conf time.

On a tactical level I will not sign off, or let someone sign off without a protest, a requirement if I think a lad cheated or had a parent do it. There is still some "cub scout behavior" from boys and parents and some really half-assed attempts at meeting requirements and I have made boys redo it correctly or show me more evidence. On occasions some boys have missed a COH date and I got some parental flack. (That said if I think a boy made an honest attempt and did his own work I am a soft touch)

I working hard to re-orient my thinking about boys who seem to be "bad scouts" as boys who need more help. I am surprised that some boys just seem easier to like than others.

This is a toughie.

I would not sign but would expect a storm of you-know-what because the character issues were allowed to get this far. They can appeal and will probably get it. However, by not signing you send the correct signals to those who value the Eagle that it does matter.

I try hard to see the best in all the boys I work with but there are a few that seem to be turning out to be little rule weasels slinking their way to Eagle. If I can say objectively they have met the requirement than I have signed off. So I can see the conflict.

Either way you need to talk to the boy over these issues and concerns. Let us know what happens.

I agree with B. Dweller. It is not crossing over--just a continuation. At most a compass, maybe a water bottle. Never a mess kit, I know our Boy Scouts have no need of them.

Plan a good outing (as in outdoors).

I hope their Troop historian gets it all down! Will make some great stories and some good lessons learned!

Sorry for the slow reply...I had an injured boy scout at home. (I will say 1st aid is great to learn for home use! All is well)

I am sorry about the problem dad. I know you hate to lose the boy but I agree that moving him into the Boy Scouts ASAP would be the best solution.

Hovering parents is a problem but you initially mentioned that other than the problem dad that you had a great group. I had a great Webelos group of parents who pitched in but it also mean't they hovered a lot. It did create some significant separation problems when most of them crossed over to Boy Scouts.

In my group I had to balance the need to prep the boys who would cross over against those who might not for whatever reason. You want to deliver a quality program for them so that will return to scouting when they are parents in the future. Also some of the boys who said they wouldn't cross over did so anyway because they had a good time in the 2nd year of Webelos.

I would tack a middle ground assuming that some of the families come back. We met at a City park. I would put the parents at a separate table and the boys at another. Parents could come over with boys if I had assigned them a specific part of the meeting. I would have the parents (mostly moms) plan the support work for future activities and campouts and have any interested dad's help with more "Boy Scouty" work, tent setting up practice, hiking hydration lessons, whatever. Every parent is good at something so use them as a resource and keep them busy. Make one an ADL even if unofficial to ride herd on the parents.

Meanwhile try to physically work separately with the boys, I tried to find excuses to do things in a far field. Also we did more hikes--even if just for a evening meeting--and other physical activities...that weeded more parents out. Also I wore the Class A as often as I could get away with instead of the Class B...the parents respond to the authority as much as the kids.

I found dealing with the Webelos parents --and I had a GREAT co-leader and a great group of parents--pretty hard. It is a transitional age for the boys and parents are very protective. The most protective parents often drop out before Boy Scouts. Also if a family had started in Tigers they may be getting burned out at the same time the boys who would make good Boy Scouts are getting bored in Webelos.

Remind any offended parents that you welcome their help but you want their boys to gain some more independence in a safe --emphasis safe - environment.

If your Council offers a "Back to Brownsea" or similar "Boy Scout simulation program" I strongly suggest pushing it. That cured a lot of problems. The boys that went camped separate from their parents and came back very enthused about scouting and camping on their own. The parents felt better and I had allies in the kids.

That said, K1986 I thought the others gave you good advice. I thank you for your service...it can be a tough job but think of the boys you are helping.

How far along are the Webelos? Are you close to the Boy Scout crossover?

Forgot about the time my friend in college talked me into coming home with him one break to his family farm in Georgia. Got to castrate the young bulls all the time he was saying "doesn't hurt them one bit!".

Age 14 worked in the back of a florist shop. Once was locked in the back of a refrigerated truck for an hour (it was pitch black) delivering flowers to a wedding. Had to dye tons of flowers everyday in the alley with a spray bottle. Everyday came home with my face and hands blue or green or red except for where my glasses were.

Made a grand total of $1.25 an hour (1976). When the florists found out I was a scout they sent the 19 year old owners daughter to try to seduce me. I have fond memories of the kiss in the walk in refrigerator and the see through net top she wore that day. I told her I didn't believe in sex before marriage and she proclaimed "he really is a boy scout!"

The timing is bad for us. We are doing our Spaghetti carryout dinner at $5 a head. Usually costs us $2-3 to make. Actually get 40% of sales are straight donations. Troop splits proceeds with boys.

Saw this on our council website. At first glance thought "cool, Florida is hurricane country -everyone buys up batteries at the start of hurricane season. However it seemed pretty expensive. I usually can buy batteries at a big box store in bulk at 50 cents each. These were $1 plus.

Here is a link: http://www.boyscouting.com/springproduct.asp

We would do more within 90 minutes, push travelling lighter, and a little more fundraising from the boys. Our big problem is now hauling gear and trying to get away from a heavy base-camp mentality to more backpacking style. Would probably cut back on trips requiring us to haul canoes, etc.

I have had the ARC CPR course and the AHA CPR course (through work) and found the AHA version more comprehensive and realistic.

Thanks Seattle,

Have done BALOO and am pretty trained up but not for ITOLS. Gonna catch up at Summer Camp I hope. I have pretty much have had to learn everything from scratch since Tigers. Scouts is harder than Cubs as in Cubs it was easier to keep ahead of the boys. In Boy Scouts some of the boys are really good at the skills --firemaking and knots-- that it is hard for me to practice because of work and church commitments. My scout widow wife balks at me taking extra weekends for training.

I read and research a lot on the subjects but that is no substitute for doing. I may always feel a bit insecure the hunter/former scout adults. That said the newbie dads all think I know everything. And so it goes.

Too much emphasis on the Eagle: I want my boys to learn good skills, be good citizens, and have fun.

I feel insecure too. I was "asked to leave" the Webelos during the Vietnam war when a den leader did not believe in dissent. We never camped and it was boring but now have to learn all of these skills for the first time with the boys.

I keep thinking neckers are girls you parked with.

Singlemom,

I am sorry for your son's experience. My son has asbergers, OCD, and a cluster of other issues. Scouts has been a great confidence builder for him. He often will do things I do not think he is capable of for other adults. We had some bully issues as well and dealt with them. Some of that is the nature of boys. I I agree with the others that you should:

(1) Find another Troop -- they are all a little different and some are better fits than others. I moved from one pack to another because I didn't like the leadership and my boys and I had a much greater experience. You would try to move your boy from a bad teacher or classroom if you could wouldn't you?

(2) Work the system as recommended. Believe me the District and Council folks WILL look into it...

I disagree with you in sports. I had some terrible coaches and fellow boys in sports and it was much less regulated. I suffered an permanent injury at 14 because a coach wanted me to "man up" and stop complaining. I shattered an ankle. I also had an older boy molest me because of inadequate supervision.

In our Troop of 60 boys at least 1/3 have some sort of developmental disability. The pharmacological distribution on campouts is complicated all by itself. Some adults deal with it better than others. Dealing with parents can be a frustrating part of the job and even when you are doing everything right someone complains.

I am sorry for some of the harsh words posted here; a Scout is supposed to be Friendly, Courteous,and Kind.

Suggested addition:

(Found this on UK site on caving grades)

---------------------

Breakfast grading system:

GRADE 1 Easy breakfast with no real dangers or difficuties, eg Corn Flakes

GRADE 2 Easy breakfast with minor difficulties, eg Corn Flakes and toast

GRADE 3 Moderate breakfast with some difficulties but no real hazards;

eg porridge with black treacle, toast and peanut butter

GRADE 4 Difficult breakfast with considerable difficulties and/or

hazards requiring a certain amount of skill and/or stamina; eg

sausages, beans, fried bread, fried eggs.

GRADE 5 Severe breakfast with serious difficulties and/or hazards

requiring a considerable amount of skill and/or stamina; eg Scrambled

eggs, sardines on toast, tinned spaghetti, and fried instant mash.

------------------

Clearly Scouts should avoid Grade 4 or 5 until they are part of a Venture or High Adventure Crew. Grade 3 is restricted to age 14 or higher.

If the boys are wild sometimes you are "playing school" too long and they are bored. I agree that some physical activity is essential. Play a lot of games. Sometimes the boys will spin out of control.

If you have other helpers have them try to redirect some of the problem boys.

I had some Tiger/Wolf meetings I thought were total disasters --total chaos-- and later got feedback that they were the best ever.

Congratulations!

I did 2 terms of Tiger Leaders. They are so cute and easily impressed. ( I did get boos and "your boring".) For Tigers you need a lot of short different material 5-8 minutes each. Play 2-3 games a night. Balloon stomp was popular plus Indian wrestling. Anything that is something that is a little too boyish to be played in school these days. Let them yell every once in a while. They like some crafts but really need help. Bring in a real live boy scout to teach demonstrate some scout skills....we had an eagle show how to use and paddle a canoe. That was a big hit. We also had a "hike" around the block that most of them enjoyed. I would recommend getting the Cub Scout "How To Book". Many good ideas of all kinds.

I would would sweat out some of those Tiger meetings more than my job presentations. Tougher crowd.

I think Wolf is a bit more challenging as they are more and a little more complex activities.

I think adults are more willing to be an Assistant Den Leader than Den Leader. If you can get anyone to enlist it might be more realistic to have 1 large den with 2 ADL than 2 dens.

I also found out that it helps to wear the uniform. Some folks seem reluctant in cubs but I think the boys respect the adult leaders more in uniform.

Anyway my 2 cents.

I agree with one night. I was with 2 different packs with my son and on the 2 night camp-outs 90% of the families stayed one night. We moved from 4 to 3 to 2 Pack campouts a season over the years for the same issues.

Group cooking is a must as some families are intimidated by that and the on-cookers can bring the chips, etc.

Also you need a lot of programmed activities or today's parents will see it as a waste of time. If the boys are busy and the parents get to relax they seem much more favorable.

Sadly many parents today are very wimpy and many have never been camping. Most of the boys love it.

I am an ASM with 2 Boy Scouts. I spent of the first campouts kicking them out of adult's "officer country"' the irony is that some campouts I only see him on the trip home. I think he still appreciates knowing "I'm in the area".

I would consider getting trained as ASM but do not go on every campout. If you have enough ASM's you can spread the load around to reduce "Scout-widowhood".

I second the Eureka Timberline. They are a bit heavy but can be split up among several boys. They are reasonably priced and are pretty "scout proof". They are a bit hot...an issue in Florida.

I have a lighter weight Eureka Apex for myself (it is easy for 1 person to set up at night and it is lighter.

I used both tents with my Webelos to practice setting up tents and I found that the Apex was more likely to get damaged by boys.

The Timberline has aluminum poles which still work if bent.

The problem with tents is that after folks get some camping under your belt your tastes change or you lust after some new tent you saw at a campout. You may wish to have Troop tents for the first years (who tend to basecamp more) and let them get their own tent after they get some experience.

As a retiring Cub leader I got some nice cards, some gift cards to go out dining with my Scout widow wife BUT the BEST gift was some photos of "my boys" and one of me teaching them the Boy Scout Oath. Not all of them are going on to Boy Scouts so I will miss that group.

Sorry that belonged on another thread.

Mn Scout

That seems an equitable division of cost. We do have a few extra packs just in case. That said packs seem a matter of personal preference.

The shared tent system has not been that successful in our Troop. Boys seem to take better care of their own tents --though that was a failure of our Quartermaster to stay on top. Seems like the Troop tents are always missing stakes, rainfly's, poles. We one time had 3 troop tents with no poles on a campout(we told 'em --tough--figure it out)