Tampa Turtle

As you probably know we do not make boys "repeat" scouts. Both my boys had to repeat but kept going in scouts. The older one benefited from advancing even though he missed some friends; he took more pride in his scout "career" than his scholastic one. My younger son did not repeat in scouts and eventually became disenchanted with his current den as he was not in class with them; so it does depend on the situation.

If it was Tiger I might repeat; they are pretty young. But repeating can get pretty boring.

My younger son did stay in it; mostly I think for the Daddy time. He is now in Boy Scouts and with his old friends. Since he knows boys in two age groups he is a popular scout and a bridge to the younger ones so it did work out.

In any case I found I agonized over this far more than my boys. Why not ask them? I gave both a choice, explained they did not have to stay back, and it was their choice.

Boy does this hit close to home.

In the case of parents who don't admit it I don't know. I have had this happen also--when my kid was in the same class, too. It is not fair to the boy...

I like to think achievement in cubs is process and boy scouts is product. There is no requirement police in cubs but I think they need to make their own individual best effort. For swimming they need to get in the water even if two adults swim side by side; it may take awhile. Parents may need to make additional work at home--I would let them do it if they are amenable and honorable. My son who has sensory issues will only swim with shirts and sneakers on...we let him and he did OK.

In all cases the lad has to try, to make the attempt. Sometimes victory will be in small steps. Did he get in the water--great. Next time a few strokes. Time after that a little swimming.

For my son the academic requirements were HUGE hurdles we tried to start on those early in the year to give him a headstart on his weakest areas. For another boy who had very, very poor hand coordination I probably worked 3 times as long on practicing setting up a tent and tying the square not.

All boys have strong areas and weak areas. I tried to make sure that a scout who was struggling in one area got to show off sometimes in his strong area. It is important to provide the right mix of activities so that all boys get to be successful so they do not to get too discouraged. That said in Webes we generally pushed the "Scouty" outdoor skills toward the end since the boys usually needed a little more physical maturity. I know others do differently.

I have been and still are constantly surprised at how boys will do things for another adult or another boy than their parent. It is also easier to be patient for someone than your own son. I know when my boy cannot read well or tie his shoe it pushes the parental button "will he ever be able to get a job and support himself, etc" or "he never does it for me at home, either".

In Webelos we started copying the local Boy Scout schedule (meetings every week when school is in, except for Pack meetings and some sort of special activity once a month. The more you meet the more repetition and normalcy you can build into a schedule that can help a asbergers/autistic kid.

We have doubled dipped on a few requirements like the endless CPR ones for aquatics if the MB (like Motorboating and Small Boat Sailing) were done concurrently AND if the boys could demonstrate upon request. If there was a time delay I would not.

I know at Summer Camp of a boy doing 3 aquatics and only doing the CPR once (but it was a bit of a MB factory).

In general I do not like double-dipping. I think repetition is good. We have a boy who joined early got Totin Chit instruction. Lost Chit was made to a 2nd time. Went to Summer Camp and was in 1st year program did it a 3rd time. It now seems to be sinking in...

I find the parents are the worst at lawyering and gaming the system to fast track requirements; in three cases I can think of ex-cub leaders who take this approach with their scouts.

Seattle,

"How is that working out"

One or two --naturally not my own sons.

Seriously over the years I have had 1 or 2 boys tell me they thought about what I said and acted differently. I take that as a small victory.

I would say your breakdown of the population seems about right.

Maplescouter

Congrats for taking your job seriously,

You may be over analyzing things a bit. I have managed teams for years and have always felt my span of control broke down after 5 or 6 people. A patrol of 6 just feels right. I managed 14 and broke them into sub-groups but it was a lot less fun. I think your sections will be less optimal even if you make them work.

I would heartily concur that you spin off 2 new brother patrols. The new PL's can "conspire" with you on additional outings--I think you will find you can get more accomplished that way. Basic leadership-mentor new leaders with their own commands. I did that at work and while I missed the guys I "spun off" I am still very proud of their success and take some small credit in getting them started. In your case it is not every guy that can boast of being the "father" of 3 patrols.

In out Troop we had a massive patrol like yours and they split into 2 patrols. Even kept the same patch just called themselves "Donkey A" and "Donkey Z" Patrol. Eventually (for other reasons)they both dwindled down and recombined. Nothing to say you cannot do that later if need be.

As for the summer camp issue --split the Troop if need be.

In any case, good luck.

I am not sure what special needs you may be including. I know with ADHD (the real cases) they seem to be disproportionately represented in scouting...

I have a special needs son (Tourettes, Asbergers, OCD, you name he got it) and have had some asbergers, downs syndrome, and blind boys in cubs and scouts. They are, more or less, mainstreamed in with the units.

It has been great for son who is a 1st class Scout and a great camper. The outdoors has been great for him. His younger brother who is fairly normal followed him so you should expect a mix of boys as siblings are likely to join the same unit. For some of the other boys camping, especially monthly boy scout camping at different locations and with different activities has greatly helped them with those nagging "transitional issues".

For many such boys scouting is great. There is a great diversity of pursuits that leaves something for everyone to excel at. Cub Scouts is a little easier in "doing your best" is relative to the individual while meeting the Boy Scout requirements are not though you can keep trying to get it. Also little guys are, in my experience, much more accommodating of someone who is different then the older boys. In truth parents are more of a problem than boys. Parents of boys with different special needs (wheelchair vs. blind, asbergers vs. downs) seem to squabble over who should get more help/

That said I am AMAZED at what these boys can accomplish especially when working with an adult OTHER than their parent. They do things their parents never thought they could. Most special needs boys have developed coping skills that can be an asset otherwise. My son--who is hyper sensitive and easily distracted by crowded schoolrooms--uses that sensitivity in the woods and has turned out to be an excellent tracker with acute smell, hearing, and observation. Horrible with school work he is a knot tying genius --he doesn't memorize the moves he figures how it is put together and comes up with multiple ways to tie it after only seeing tied once.

Make sure you have extra adults so you can others work with your boy--I usually have some other parents who work with my boy while I work with theirs. If nothing else it is less frustrating for the adult --no one pushes your buttons than your own kid. That is true of ANY boy.

In general I have seen some of the special needs boys to be no more than a year behind the others on average; often that is that they needed a little more maturing than average or they needed to develop a physical workaround or their parents were not ready to let them try. They may struggle with a particular area but are really, really proud of what they finally conquer --provided you do not give it away. Make sure they earn it so it has meaning.

Good luck

Life is full of regrets...

Like the girl I should have asked to the prom but was too shy; years later found out she really liked me and I was too dense to notice.

Or not joining Boy Scouts when my dad actively discouraged it. (and he was a former scout - Life I think) I should have found a way...even then I knew it was an important decision.

I have a problem with procrastination and have paid the price in lost opportunities, missed jobs, relationships, extra work, and financial penalties.

I counsel my boys to not make the same mistakes I did; to take a chance and also to not wait to the last minute unless something unforeseen happens. At some point you have to move on.

The Harvard KSG faculty even has Republicans-they just never get tenure!

Also I am scared of rain and still a democrat. It makes campouts scary with the wet socks and all.

Come on guys its academia --that's how they talk. I used to be an academic.

I attended the Kennedy School and thought it was pretty good; however Harvard is it's own little universe all it's own.

And yes I am a Democrat and a liberal. I must add I also always display my flag, attend patriotic celebrations, and have family in the military. I mean you CAN be a Democrat, go to church,and love your country.

Besides SOMEBODY had to teach the American Labor MB!

To get back to the original topic thread...

I do not think 1st year parents should be offended with the idea they have stuff to learn. It would be the same if your kid started band, football, or robotics club. (To say nothing about church congregations) All groups have norms and cultures and strive to pass those along. You can go against those norms (I do frequently and we home school)but be willing to pay the price.

The last two years I maintain a Troop email group for New Scout Patrol parents to help them with the cubs to scouts transition. Really a supplemental bunch of info to the regular troop news. Experienced Scouters and parents expect everyone to know everything. I find about 1/3rd of the parents really appreciate it, a few asked to be dropped (usually folks with an older scout already) and most never say anything. I just know when I first joined over as an ex-Webelos leader there were many things I was clueless about --mostly because less and less Dads (especially those under 35) were Boy Scouts.

By the time the New Scout Patrol is absorbed in the regular patrols I dissolve the list and they are on their own. I feel is just being "helpful".

To get back to the original post, a busy parent could view the SM's comments as a bit snarky. I would have called the boy and parent over, showed him where it was in the book (once), reminded him that he should always check his book 1st, and explained how the "chain of command" worked to help him do things on his own and give the adults and parents a break. We forget there is a LOT of information for new families to absorb.

I think I started all this awhile ago. I still think Small Boat Sailing is pretty good for $5. It's a good start. Wilderness Survival is pretty suspect.

At Summer Camp the counselors insisted on using the BSA Shooting MB Book for all answers verbatim. So if you used other language to say the same thing they rejected it. Stupid.

Yes you can skip the MB Books but at least they are a common base and relatively cheap. Color seems to help.

I would be happy if our boys would look at them. Most don't; they just get the meritbadge.org sheet and start filling in the blanks. I told a boy the other day that "the worksheet IS NOT the Merit Badge" -- he looked at me like I was crazy. I suspect some of this stems from Merit Badge Academies, Summer Camp classes, and the growing trend of MB "classes" at Troop Meetings. So much like school, so boring.

I am helping the Troop Librarian and we may do a book drive. I was wondering what supplemental books would be good to add beside MB booklets. For Hiking I think The Complete Walker IV by Colin Fletcher is good --even if dated it has a lot of pro's and con's to making choices. Jardine's Tarp book is expensive but probably worth getting. What others?

I too enjoy reading the older literature, if nothing else they capture "the spirit" of we are trying to achieve even if some things are different. I like Eamonn comparison to old cookbooks. I have been reading some old of my late Mother-in-laws cookbooks collection (1920-1960's) and while nutritional needs (anemia, malnutrition) and preparation (lard, long preparation times) have changes there are often some great lost ideas to be gleaned. It is great to have the old scout literature to get ideas from --some of our boys really like to learn something "old-school" now and then.

As for following the current literature remember it isn't a suicide pact. If something doesn't work maybe you need to modify it to capture the intent.

Sorry SMT,

Dihydrogen monoxide sounds dangerous. Probably something in one of those home-made stoves.

I used to look the other way when there was a late night sip of "Boy Scout Juice"; however more recent experiences make me think the prohibition is probably best enforced. The loss of inhibitions seems to at best result in an increase of loud cussing and inappropriate gossip/sex talk that appear a bad example. Other times I have observed, I shall say, rather "vigorous political and religious discourse" that disrupted the usually harmonious adult area. Finally I must agree on the need to respond in the middle of the night to unforeseen circumstances.

I agree the negative parental feedback as well as bad PR could be pretty substantial if things go south.

I am not saying that working with the boys I did not REALLY want a stiff drink on occasion but if you cannot go without for one weekend you have a bigger problem.

I fail to see how a water gun is a "simulated firearm".

I love this stuff. I did the plastic lemonade container with foam scrap cozy for ultra-light mess kit. It works great and cost pennies. We did a caving camp out and instead of buying knee-pads I just took an old folding chair back fabric, foam, and duct-tape and made my own. It was ugly and worked.

The trend seems for Americans to "professionalize" and get the optimal gear for every recreational activity. Boys need to show thriftiness. I get discouraged by Boys Life in general -- the old issues used to show a lot of gear you could whack together.

I must admit that my wife has observed that I spend about $100 for incidentals and odd items for every campout for me and my two boys. Even if it is just going to Walmart for "one more tarp" I am not always setting a good example. So I need to do more of this to preserve domestic tranquility.

1.Does your Troop actively recruit 2nd year Webelos Cub Scouts?

Yes, but it is pretty casual. We do two camp-outs where we accommodate them. A nearby troop is very aggressive and we have had to step up our game.

2. If it does what methods are used and what is the approximate success percentage per method?

The most effective is when the Scout Master talks to them personally. I would say that was 70% effective.

The Webes got to start fires and work with saws at their campout. That was 50%.

3. On average how many Cub Packs does your Troop recruit?

2-3. We have one feeder. A nearby Troop folded and 1/2 their Webes come to us the other 1.2 to our competitor. I think the "fussier" parents go to the other Troop. We also get some from a third group. All 3 Packs are Elementry school based

4. If the Troop does not recruit where do find your new Boy Scouts?

Any additional information will be very helpful.

We have 80 scouts listed with 55 actives. We get 12+ newbies a year...typically a patrol from each school. Get 3-5 walk-ins a year as well. We produce 4-6 Eagles a year.

We do a lot more camping than neighboring Troops and have a lot of parents helping out.

Get the Cub Scout How-To Book. Has many games, inside, outside, noisy, quiet, equipment, no equipment.

Balloon stomp was always a big hit.

I am rather fond of those awful canvas tents. Hot and leaky but certainly dark enough. Like the room. My little tent would get old after a few days.

Have to agree w Eagle92

Trained Service Dogs fine, they usually are used to large groups of people. Can't really keep em out anyway.

I had a Sheppard/Greyhound mix. Beautiful dog, loved everyone, was a "Gamma Dog" submissive to a hamster if need be. Yet she was big and if she saw a squirrel might lunge and knock a kid over. Also some kids were just terrified.

I would have loved to have brought my dog to the Pack campouts but it just seemed like too much of a complication. If I was in a real small unit I might feel different. The problem of other irresponsible owners remain.

I do not think this is a horrible reason; if you are proud to wear the uniform and get recognition for it OK.

My son was a new Wolf years ago and was photographed in the paper doing the Memorial Day flag thing. Got picked up by AP and went national. He was pretty sharp looking in his new uniform. He had a serious look on his face which was why I thought it was picked up --was actually because he was having fun and all the gravestones had flags and he had to bring them back.

As I revisit this I found Small Boat Sailing and Rowing pretty good.

My 12 year old (1st class) son last night:

"I know what I want to for my Eagle Project! A public service video."

me: "what about?"

"How Boy Scouts isn't all boring community service projects--it's exciting dangerous outdoor adventure!"

I saw the presentation. Overall I like it. I would move a lot of the wordy parts to your comments section and say it--it will still print out on the notes. Then cull, cull, cull. Use pictures to describe activities. The difference between a good presentation and a great presentation is the great one is distilled down. IMHO.

Assuming you know how and have access to the equipment I would do Dutch Ovens. Can also do a Garbage can Turkey.