Tampa Turtle

46 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Call me contrarian, but Webelos really don't need to engage with a troop at all. Be nice if they do so they earn AoL etc ...

 

Contrarian.

23 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Part of the reason for the AOL is to prepare them for Boy Scouts. Engaging with a troop has been one of the requirements since as long as I can remember, and if memory serves, one of the original requirements. Heck I remember when a man had to be the WDL to simulate Boy Scouts more closely.

One of the challenges i've found is that Scouts do not stay around for long if they do NOT engage with a troop. Give you an example. For the past 2 years, the Webelos from our feeder troop have not camped with us. One den visited us at camp for a few hours and left,  the other den used the joint Scouting for Food activity for the outdoor requirement. 4/5s remain of the first den, and 1of 3 remain from the second den. Contrast that with camping and it is much higher. Out of oldest son's den 2 of the 4 camped with the troop, and hte other two transfered over because of them. Middle son's den had 4 camp with us, and all four are still here.

In my experience those boys who did some coordinating with a Troop were more likely to cross over and stay active after the first three months. Not everyone, but it helped. Ones who did not or had no camping experience with a Troop as Webelos guest were much more likely to have a first year 'crisis' experience at a campout. 

We have had the best results with those boys that attended a council "Back to Brownsea" event where they were divided up into patrols for a weekend and did lots of boy scout things led by boy scouts. 

In some cases some kids were being pushed along by parents into Scouts and that has always had mixed results. Boys who hate camping are always gonna have issues.

We did what Parkman did though it really depends on what the other parents wanted to do. Sometimes my family ended up cooking our own food because...it was fun and we were camping. We were often in the minority.

1 hour ago, Gwaihir said:

side note, I love how the cap is no longer part of complete uniforming.  

Now that is just being picky. Besides, makes it hard to see that they are girls. 

We have one that stops by a couple times a month. It helps that he lives nearby and many moons ago his boy Eagled in the Troop. He watches some meetings, sits in on a CC or two, and attends the occasional COH. A couple times I have had some bureaucratic question and he did look into it and get back to us. Occasionally he has told us not to ask a question.

That's OK it is all 'interim' - nothing to see here. Please move along.

But swell, they sure are cute.

51 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Odd that literally everything matches but their shoes...no doubt an oversight

I wish you had not pointed that out, someone no doubt will be punished for it now.

I keep hearing that "Family Scouting" is NOT synonymous with "Girls in Scouting".

But I just got a scouting email with a FAQ to questions about "Family Scouting". (https://scoutingwire.org/3-places-to-get-answers-to-your-questions-about-family-scouting/?utm_source=scoutingwire&utm_campaign=swvolunteer2142018&utm_medium=email&utm_content=A) and when I go to BSA Brand Center for photos under "Family Scouting" it is clearly based on 90% girls for Cub Scouts. 

Attached is a screen shot. (It is from https://scouting.webdamdb.com/bp/#/folder/3482216/)  They couldn't show boys and girls together or a family with a son and daughter? I know this is for recruiting...but really? Is it just me? I mean none of this stuff is probably cheap. I'd much rather see something like @Cambridgeskip's picture of his "co-ed" scouts.

12 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

He may had misread what @Tampa Turtle wrote, thinking it was the mom of the Scout in the BOR. You know, the Scout's mom sitting in on her son's BOR...which would be highly odd.

No. Another Mom. Sorry.

Mom of fast advancing Scouts does not help out but she does have 4 kids so I cut her some slack.

3 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

How did you spend that much for Patriots Point?  Curious did you charter a bus?

We do one long trip each January.  Good thing is leaders / parents that drive traditionally absorb the mileage.  We did 900 plus miles with 13 cars on MLK this year., so I personally know the cost.  More mileage to deduct I guess.

Dang if I know. When my Son was SPL he kept asking the adults for some cost numbers on trips (for over a year). So he and the PLC could...you know....actually take ownership and plan trips with a budget (I know what a concept!). He got constantly stonewalled. I brought it up at committee as well. I think a lot of it was transportation costs...that has been a big cost driver, along with expensive 'group' meals (the popular "lets stop at Golden Corral on the drive home") and "we need to put the boys up at a hotel along the way".

The solution is Patrol campouts. Amazing how cheap those got.

I predict girls will find a way to join Troops affiliated with this Forum before the official date by National. 

17 hours ago, blw2 said:

We are easy driving distance form there...about 2-1/2 hours.  Our pack used to go camp at Fort Wilderness every year or two.  Good family camping there, since we were close and it's palatable for many new families....clean bathhouses and such...  But that was all family camping stuff. 

We did that for the occasional Pack campout. There are Water Moccasins on site..you'd think Disney would have killed all non-animitronic life. Fort Wilderness had excellent bathrooms and clean up areas which made it a big hit with the Cub moms. You can see the evening fireworks from their too.

4 hours ago, ianwilkins said:

Apparently they changed the recipe recently, so it didn't have 15 spoons of sugar in every glass (my guess). Some Scots have been stockpiling the "old" bru.

Anyway, the UK also has a Gilwell Reunion every year, y'all are welcome, I think they have the UK AGM there at which anyone can attend. I assume votes and questions can be asked.

I was quite impressed, I went to an event at Gilwell Park for Explorer Scouts, just the 4000 or so, and the Chief Commissioner was there (basically the right hand man of Bear that does all the grunt work while Bear gladhands and signs autographs) and he was quite happy for me to ask him a specific question I had, and I'm pretty lowly.

It has an odd off taste...I read it was based on quinine water. It can be cheaper to drink Beer. I'd like to save the sugar for the excellent chocolates over there. (I was just talking about this at the scout meeting last night!) When our family was touring/backing the UK a few years ago we lived off the sandwich combos. It was a fun part of the day trying to decide which Crisp flavor to try "hmmm look Prawn, English Breakfast with HP sauce all in one chip".

I like the idea of calling together scouters...

3 hours ago, Col. Flagg said:

Just came from a PLC last night where the PLC passed a "rule" that said only registered Scouts and adults could camp with the troop, and that only perspective Webelos looking to join could camp with the unit. 

43 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

It's possible but unlikely.  The girls might not show up.  That's going to be the most interesting thing to watch.

I think some will. We have been getting inquiries. They may go elsewhere. But there will be some.

@gblotter to make up for centuries of the past sins of male domination your 'collateral damage' to this generation of boys is not of consequence. It will only matter IF the drop in boys as a result of girls causes a sudden, large, and consistent drop in overall BSA membership that National cannot ignore. Anything short of that, including the loss of experienced scouters who walk away will be swept under the rug. Victory will be declared, further corporate donors will be secured, 

8 minutes ago, cyphertext said:

If the boys who are current members do not support that change but it is pushed upon them anyway, yes, it does equal telling them to get lost.  

Have you spoken with any boys on this matter?  Every boy I have spoken to has asked "Why don't they just fix Girl Scouts?".  The boys I have spoken with do not support this change at all. 

To their credit ALL the adult scouters in our Troop keep their reservations to themselves. We tell the boys it is what it is. But their hearts are not in it. Though over half plan to walk they are planning to do it quietly. The ones who are complaining-and doing it loudly are the current Mom's. They are VERY unhappy and about 1/4 of them are GS leaders or former GS. They are talking about pulling their boys out for various reasons.

We did not have this much fall out from the gay decisions, I think because we could just choose to ignore it. We lost a boy or two on that one but our Troop was 50-70 then. Now we are 30+ and 10 boys are in danger of leaving. 

STEM SCOUTS ARE JUST LIKE REGULAR SCOUTS

EVERYONE WANTS GIRLS

FAMILY CAMPING WILL NOT AFFECT BOY SCOUTS

TRADITIONAL SCOUTING WILL NOT CHANGE

Yeah all of this should work...no problem...

“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.” 

1 minute ago, Gwaihir said:

Unless of course, the ultimate answer is to change it back, because that was the best way to work the program.  A truly open mind would be tolerant and accepting of that as a possible outcome.  I still don't quite get why as a society, going back to something that worked, after something that sounded good failed, is so taboo.  

Sorry while you were writing that me and another guy just disrupted your job. Must be a good thing because it is a new change. All change is good. Stability is boring. Tradition is boring*. Are we addicted to change? Yea...we can quit anytime we want!

(*tradition is great when it results in donations from misty eyed wealthy donors)

The funny thing is BSA is saying they want to stay traditional and co-coed and membership has been dropping. GSUSA has always been progressive and female only and membership is dropping. 

9 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Been going downhill since they discontinued Blacksmithing, Stalking, and Taxidermy merit badges.  Those were the ones that toughened them up.

My son loved stalking tracking during the Centennial year. Almost every camp I have been to boasts a Blacksmithing station in the backwoods part of the camp and still display their sadly aging taxidermy animals. I wished they still had them as options.

4 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

Correct.  I understand.  And I suspect that when national talks about Family Camping, they are referring to CUB Scouts, because that's where the program is currently launching.

They have completely muddied the message and when a few scouters from the Troop contacted folks at the Council we got mixed messages about "Family Changes" to the Boy Scouting program. They ranged from a "a more open family emphasis" to "nothing will change". Anyone else.

Just now, Eagle94-A1 said:

Yes, it is already happening. My sons and many of their friends are not happy with the parents and siblings starting to camp with the troop now.

Yup. People just do it. It used to be assumed you would not show up without special permission.

The words "ruined the camp-outs" have been bandied about. I will say some of the scouters seem to enjoy chatting up the more comely younger mom all weekend and let the boys do whatever...

3 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

I would slightly differ in that view.  BSA National and pretty much every interview CSE has had emphasized and at times over emphasized family.  He talks about families doing things together, that families want programs they can do together, and that scouting can be the program they can do together.  The surveys tell them family is key and they want to do things.  As a family.

One can infer that if the new families that come into Cubs with the family transition to Scouts, the expectation is the family will come along.  Those of us that are dinosaur troops, all male leaders on outings,  using patrol methods, scouts off by themselves, referring scouts to their SPL for questions, will be (I assume) be expected to welcome the families.  Even if we are all male and the Scouts potentially crossing over are male, this family focus will be a challenge.

 

Exactly. It is already happening...perhaps National is just recognizing the trend and embracing it. Maybe the "Helicopters have just landed" and I have been out maneuvered!

5 minutes ago, ianwilkins said:

I'll let you have that one. At least that's sweet and not savoury. And my American History is sketchy at best so thanks for the history lesson.

You old romantic.

I bet there will be some awkward moments tomorrow as chocolates are given only to receive the reply "I've given them up for lent".

They'll still be good by Easter. Longing makes the wait all the sweeter.

Don't do what my mum did in 1940 --store them under the bed next to the radiator. 

As for pancakes one son drowns it in faux maple syrup and the other in honey. As a diabetic I skip the whole thing. 

One of my wife's favorite V-day memory was the heart shaped pizza I tipped the pizza parlor into making the first year we were married. The guy signed the inside "Pizza by Gus". We were so poor an $8 pizza on our card table in the first apartment was living it up. I think I wrote a poem too and engraved it on a sheet of metal. Young love--that was 30+ years ago. <3

22 minutes ago, qwazse said:

For reference and enjoyment,  this snapshot by WOSM may serve:

https://issuu.com/worldscouting/docs/wsbero-membership_report_2013

What's relevant to us, is that Scouts UK had not recovered its market penetration, but compared to 2007, it had "turned the corner" and was gaining market share. It is reasonable to expect that it has continued that trend. However, it probably has a few years to gain the share of boys.

On the other hand, BSA's program(s) has lost market share at an alarming rate over the same period. Anyone worried about losing boys nationwide, that ship has sailed. Anyone thinking including girls is a panacea should reconsider their position.

I'm in this for smiles. Some girls want this program? Let them. Some boys want to keep to themselves? Make it work for them ... even if your troop is full-on co-ed. These things are best managed on a local level, and the sooner BSA gives scouters the latitude to do that the better.

EXCELLENT sexy data...highly recommended viewing.