Tampa Turtle

11 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

Yes, you said it quite well. I guess I thought that was evident in my post but you spell it out more succinctly.

Ah but you highlighted it in red. 

This has been touted for years as one of the great things about Philmont is as a family destination while one gets ones training. The spouses of the one's I know who went spoke highly of it.

9 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

Giving away clean needles, condoms or breathalyzers aren't breaking any laws either. HOWEVER, they are within arms length of people violating state and/or federal law. So assuming your litmus test is that they're not doing anything illegal, then the options I put forward would be equally as ethical and ok for Scouts to do. 

The issue is about exposing kids to potential illegal activity, or benefiting from said activity.

If people leaving an adult book store bought a lot of cookies would it still be appropriate for a Girl Scout to be there? I believe the zoning separations from schools, etc are probably similar. I would argue it goes beyond 'what is legal' to 'what is appropriate'. 

2 hours ago, HelpfulTracks said:

Ridiculous horse hockey.

But if you believe that perhaps Trail Life or BPSA would work better for you.

Not very scout-like; are we repressing dissent in BSA now too? I always thought the rights of the workers to gripe about the "man" was  as american as apple pie.  

Well I guess we are judging her -or more likely the parents-actions on the basis of what we might expect of Boy Scouts. It is Girl Scouting so maybe that is OK-though they has conniptions about Trans-fats but I guess Pot is OK. I guess the real reason she is getting applause is that the main things we appreciate in our culture now are only things that can be quantified or monetized so as long as she sells more that is a win! I mean the goal is sales right?

(This thread may merge with the James West Knot one!) 

This seems more appropriate:

Consider these Girl Scout cookie and beer pairings

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/nation-now/2018/02/06/girl-scout-cookie-beer-pairings/311103002/

11 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

Arrow on a zip line in to the fire. Still used by many council camps so if they can do it, why not a unit?

Even a real cheesy arrow could be entertaining. 

6 minutes ago, MattR said:

You're asking what has the same thrill and impact as a flaming arrow without the flame or the arrow (sounds like a Five Easy Pieces quote: "A chicken salad sandwich. no butter, no mayo, no lettuce, hold the chicken").

How about replace the point on the arrow with a dull point? Or make the entire lake a shooting range and get the RSO or whatever is needed for archery (and place a target at the other end of the lake). Nothing will beat the flame but even a glow stick would be fun to watch. As for arrows falling into the lake get a canoe and go find them. The scouts could have fun with that.

Do glow sticks float? Can you use a sling shot?

I hated the whole food thing when I was DL. Eventually the parents demanded a 'snack time' and I relented as long as I had no part of it.

Looks real good. I'd maybe make the families section a little more concise. I feel convicted about the chatting.

Council! District! National! Parents! Girl Scouts! Society! Today's Scouts!!!!

(Turtle starts the wind up with the big rock and then notices the big glass house he is living in)

"Never mind."

9 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

Hooters?

As long as these places empower women or people of any conceivable or partial gender other than 100% heterosexual male. I for one applaud the planned BSA cis-normative discrimination awareness merit badge.

As for GSUSA I am waiting for their special "Sensible healthy cookie eating while under the influence" education talks. 

This is the "Ask me, I am a soft touch" Knot. Girl Scouts learn to recognize this knot at cookie time.

We are a unit in a Methodist church and the pastor and the United Methodist Women (God bless them!) view as part of their (anemic) youth ministry. We invited him to a few meetings and holiday parties and makes a diplomatic appearance. He did a sterling job helping counseling the boys after a scout died. But, yes the church staff treats us like other groups 'renting' the space and we have had some mild hostility from pre-school staff that also uses the church property ( I think it is a little kids vs big kids thing) and the Methodist Men's club (who carp on us if we leave a hair out of place). 

On a side note we did invite the 70+ associate pastor to camp with us (he as an ex-scout and career military Chaplin). He came out camped with adults, avoided the boys, sneaked in some booze, and shared a tent with his girl friend (to our surprise since he drove himself). Of course it turns out neither had bothered to do the YPT (they both had been heavily vetted by the Methodist church for youth activities previously and thought they did not need it. (*sigh*) Another reason they stayed away from the youth. My experiment in adult association did not work out,

On the one hand it is a PITA and I now I have to tell some of our new younger ASM's and MBC (the just aged out scouts) that they will need to take it again when they thought they were good for 2 years. Was hard enough to get them to do it the first time.

Other the hand after looking through the material posted in this thread I thought it was a much more thorough and serious presentation. I was glad they talked about the possibility of older scouts preying on the younger scouts. That was a blind spot for me. It seems like an improvement and the greater good seems served my a deeper presentation even at the risk of losing a few folks by the greater demand on their time.

(But then I am a little biased as when I was in elementary school me and another kid got molested by our coach. If that happened today when I finally reported it maybe something would have happened. {To my father's credit he did not kill the man but I do believe the threat was sincerely made}.)

Two issues:

(1) Yes, something is amiss. I am surprised a 7 year old could sled alone, much less without a helmet but I assume this was an "unauthorized" activity. We can barely do a derby down a hill around here with all the safety precautions. At that age you really have to keep an idea on them a lot...while they lack judgement they can move pretty fast and be impulsive. If it was like a camp I have been to I would think a sledding area would have a wide wide margin of error. But I am from warm country and this is all abstract.

(2) Terribly tragic at such a young age and a terrible burden for all those around him to bear. I feel for the leaders especially. Very, very sad. Forever young. I am glad the organ donation gives the family something else to hang on to.

4 hours ago, ianwilkins said:

Meanwhile in England...

We have that too. Once in camp the forecasting stone was a large bolder with a tripod of huge spars set up on the parade ground in the middle of the night. There is always some new kid who has never seen it and thinks it is hilarious.

Do we have the data for past 1999?

20 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

Heard good things about that camp. Nice promo too. Wish our council did something this nice.

No camp is perfect but they were really good. Was impressed at how loyal the staff was to the camp and how many years some of them have been coming back. Good signs. Were very accommodating to special requests if they were reasonable.

But, but isn't that what the opposition said would happen and we were assured that there would be policies to keep that sort of thing from happening? Shocked. 

I heard a rumor that was at Camp Raven Knob, NC. Some units go to the same campsite for summer camp for decades so they invest in better improvements, etc.

1 minute ago, NJCubScouter said:

I don't want to send this thread too far off track, but:  What is a brownie bite fire starter?  I've never heard that term.

THREAD POLICE ALERT!

Egg cartoon. Fill with cotton balls or lint, crushed charcoal, and pour over with melted wax. Leave a bit of the cotton out for a wick. Good fire starter...will work in light rain. Boys adopted in spite of the name and kept the name.

7 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

With a smile on her face, or not?  In other words, was she serious or kidding?

If she was serious... whatever happened to the free enterprise system. 

Half joking. She knew I had no control over "headquarters" did; she had her own GS gripes. She has "her group" and they are all aging out. Then she will be done so it doesn't really matter. Anyway she introduced "brownie bite fire starters" to our Troop via my boys. You know the old story: Boy tries to start fire on front driveway. Boy meets girl. Girl says why don't use a 'brownie bite". 

27 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Had first parents meeting last night and there was a lot of pushback regarding separate dens.  The general consensus was that why is BSA adding girls to only keep them segregated.  Why wouldn’t the girls just go to Girl Scouts.  We got through the discussion but I have a feeling the separate den wall will fall in the future.

We also have several current GSUSA scouts coming on board and it is clear that this decision will cause loss in the ranks of GSUSA.  Not only are scouts but leaders are looking to transition.  I dug in a bit and the two comments I heard were GSUSA program can be boring at times and BSA seems more grass roots.  Im not sure if that is BSA’s intention or simply how we run our Pack.

First Girl den meeting next week and I expect to see several applications in over the weekend.  

I am good friends with a GSUSA leader (and former professional) who was congratulating me on Son#2 getting his Eagle. I mentioned (bragged) a few of his highlights and she asked about what an SPL was which led to a discussion of our Troops (sometimes watered-down) youth led mixed age patrol method. She was shocked, just shocked that we trusted them enough to plan and carry out things on their own and while she could see it would be chaotic it would be much more helpful for leadership development than the GSUSA program. She then told me to quit poaching their girls.

3 hours ago, ianwilkins said:

Some Dutch don't like the Germans either. Or maybe they are fed up with Brits thinking they're German as Dutch sounds a bit German if you don't know either language that well. They bridle somewhat. You can normally tell they're Dutch as they'll have something orange on. Or if you're on a campsite in France, probably better to assume they're dutch. I'm convinced Holland must be empty in the summer as almost every campsite we go to is chockablock with Dutch.

I seem to meet nice friendly people wherever I go from whatever country. I think there's a parable about that, or maybe an apocryphal tale. Something about an old man on the road from one town to another.

When we were in the UK in the summer of '13 you couldn't swing a cat in London without hitting a dutch scout troop. I liked 'em. Pretty informal but a cheerful group of campers.

The French High Schoolers were insufferable; (1) they were high schoolers (2) a different sense of personal space and hygiene and (3) mocked everything they saw (maybe that is maybe still (1))

The Germans scouts were pretty pushy and would crowd past folks in line but with a firm command they would acquiesce and back in the queue. Some old Scot woman I was with in line whispered "Very well done, got to keep a firm hand with them." I did enjoy talking some scouty stuff with them.

It was an interesting trip.

My father was a boy scout on Long Island NY during the war. In his (then) rural community there were a number of (very happy) German POW's on work release who did odd jobs, gardening etc. A number of the high school boys like him befriended them (dad knew a little german) and he swapped an old Cub Scout cap for a German POW cap which was considered very cool in his high school. He said almost his entire patrol had one and would wear them on campouts though the Scoutmaster told them not to let anyone see them wear with the scout uniform.

He remembers talking to one german (a torpedo mate from a U-boat) in late '43 who was so happy to be out of the war and was planning to relocate to the US after the war.