TAHAWK

On 5/13/2020 at 4:45 PM, Eagledad said:

It might be good press, but it also shows how Boy Scouts is viewed more as a youth after school program instead of a Community Service organization. We saw the same thing here in Oklahoma City recently after a tornado tore up the south part of town. Our council, which is accustom to organizing assistance was told to stay out by FEMA. I'm told it's a litigation issue. Scouts are still allowed to help in smaller towns, but it's a challenge in the bigger city. There are still ways the scouts can help, but it wasn't that long ago that we were considered an integral part in the community disaster relief.  

Beary

Thirty-five years ago, an "F5" went down the main street of a small city to the SE of us, Newton Falls.  We were prohibited from distributing beverage and sandwiches to rescue personnel by the Red Cross. "Legal problems" were cited.  It has only gotten worse, with law schools churning out over twice as many lawyers as the economy can employ.

If the role of colleges and universities were education instead of social indoctrination, 

On 5/13/2020 at 3:47 PM, JoeBob said:

Boy Scouts banned from planting American flags on veterans' graves for Memorial Day due to coronavirus

https://www.foxnews.com/us/boy-scouts-banned-memorial-day-coronavirus-veterans

At least we're trying to do the right thing.

Typical Fox headline.  We planted 2000 flags on veteran's graves this morning.  The bureaucrats' ruling applied to the minority of veteran's graves that are on federal property.  We even have thirty-seven Revolutionary War vets buried here in NE Ohio.  After the flag-setting, at the last cemetery,  in our home township, came the reading of the Role of Honor as the bell tolled.

Today, Fox announced a manhunt for someone who is suspected of multiple "slays."

They need more high school graduates on staff.

1 hour ago, carebear3895 said:

lol, thanks....i guess. It WAS NOT recent, in case anybody was wondering. I just haven't updated the patch on here.

Yes, I am as candid in real life as I am on here (probably why volunteers like me). It ticks off my boss, but I get the job done so it keeps the Executive Board happy. 

Candor cost us our best DE.  He was far and away the most popular, with the very best metrics - all categories, including No 1 - $$$$.  But was weak on groveling to our new SE.  He was respectful but would not grovel.  Asked to comment on the SE's plan to replace districts with employee-led "service teams," he said he preferred districts.  Gone.

That new "improved" organization has led to a very sharp decline in volunteer service.    Happily, form the SE's point-of-view, it also eliminated the knowledgeable ex officio members of the Executive Board that the District Chairs represented.  It also replaced leaders reporting to the Council President with employees reporting to the SE.  Coup.  So much for the District Operations Handbook.

Up the nose?

Lake Erie Council:  Don't know yet, but we have a plan for if and when we decide.

3 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

"Program Areas

• Limit class size [six] to enable social distancing"

School days, school days, dear old Golden Rule days.  Clueless.

In the Cleveland area, we support Duck Tape®.

Reminds me, we guested our feeder dens at Klondike for twenty-give consecutive years that I personally attended.  We reserved a cabin for them.  We were tenting, of course.

We often had Scout patrols camp, in their own clump, on our troop site for weekend campouts (the outdoor sort of weekend campouts, not the current indoor-play computer games sort)  when that seemed the best way to overcome lack of adult support in their troop.  We got a "Friendly Award" from our district for those acts of Scouting fellowship.  (Buy, then, we have no districts anymore.)

So BSA says troops cannot camp together. even as councils encourage it.   

Genius Q&A.  under whose authority?  Those who posted that the Patrol Method is "part of what we call the youth-led troop"?

Those who accidentally eliminated the rule against alcohol at Scout events and, when that was pointed out, did nothing?

Those who expressly required two registered adults be present when a merit badge counselor meets with a Scout candidate,and then said that meeting was neither a "meeting" nor a Scout "activity"?

The Q&A goes on:

Q: May time missed due to canceled unit meetings count toward position of responsibility requirements?
Yes. If youth are registered and unable to meet the expectations of their positions because of COVID-19 disruptions, then units may need to waive or rethink the expectations. Just as youth must not be held to unestablished expectations, they must not be held to expectations that are impossible to fulfill. See GTA Topic 4.2.3.4, “Positions of Responsibility,” with its six subtopics."

So if BSA goes under, youth can still earn Eagle.  Good to know.  How will he or she get a Board of Review?

1 hour ago, HashTagScouts said:

I don't know why there is some presumptive notion within their statement that when two (or more) units get together, "competition" is the basis for doing so.  Two units can't just get together on an event for fellowship, or because it is more cost friendly to share expenses? Yikes. 

28 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

Interesting. What responsibility does a parent have for their own child if they send them someplace knowing that the coronavirus is out there and a danger? Can I sue the grocery store if I get coronavirus there? If I had kids, and I took them to the grocery store and they got sick, can I sue the store? (Assuming I can prove it?) At what point are we responsible for ourselves and our families? We all know the virus is out there, and it's a risk, and anybody who can promise 100% safety from it is a liar. If 100% safety from the virus is the standard, then nothing is opening until there is a vaccine. We aren't holding other activities or businesses to that standard. 

I can see if it's something negligent and someone gets harmed, like a structure collapse, or a fire, or even a food borne illness. 

That being said, it's just too early, and while we are in this early phase of the pandemic, Scout Camp is a luxury that just doesn't need to happen. Hopefully by next Summer, vaccine or not, we'll be able to have summer camps again. 

 

The child would be the plaintiff.  He or she might sue the parents too in most states - probably would if they have insurance.  The jury would apportion fault.  The "Sue them all and let God sort it out" is a typical PI lawyer approach. Given that both God and Satan have been sued, you can sue the store. Winning is another question.  "Negligence" is using less than "ordinary reasonable care."  100% is not the standard, in theory - simply less than orc.  

5/19/20 Lake Erie Council

"This is a quick note to let you know to expect our next announcement this coming Friday [5/22/20]. In this announcement we will be addressing where we are with all summer Scouts BSA and Cub Camping programs. We have been gathering data and constantly monitoring information from all applicable channels and using it to inform our plans and decision making. We appreciate your patience as we work to compile information and create the safest and most sustainable path forward."

My resident Council says they are considering.

My resident Council says they are considering.

It is "plain" in one sense, but if the state decrees something new post June 1, it will not be announced by June 1st.   So why say otherwise?

 Your statements, in contrast, sound candid and professional. 

Sometimes we just don't know, and there is no shame in saying so.  That would be "Trustworthy."

5 hours ago, 69RoadRunner said:

Do you think BSA or anyone can predict what government actions will occur this summer that affect HA camps? 

No. Being a mere mortal, I would therefore not say, " Any changes regarding the July 1 opening will be announced no later than June 1. "  

On 5/15/2020 at 4:25 PM, 69RoadRunner said:

To be fair, I don't think that's what they meant. They will comply with state law.  If NM says all is good, but then in mid-June changes to shutting things down, there's no way Philmont can know that in advance.

Any group going to any summer camp has to accept this possibility. If you can't, then you need to take the options for canceling.

To be fair, I assume you are correct.  BSA simply has trouble with English and issues statements/promises/rules  that make no sense.  Then they give Scouters no practical way to get clarification.  Certainly council Scouters haven't a clue.  A common council response, as when BSA accidentally  eliminated the rule against alcohol at Scout camps [still not corrected],  is, "What?"  Major example,  a child candidate for Scout rank must "explain the Patrol method," but BSA cannot.  

"As we prepare for opening on July 1, we know there are potential barriers such as spikes in new cases that could affect this opening plan. Any changes regarding the July 1 opening will be announced no later than June 1. "  😶

Oh, really?  So if the State orders the reservation closed on June 15, Philmont will announce that development no later than June 1st. or ignore the order? No problem.  BSA is on the job.

38 minutes ago, xj-boonie said:

Well that makes no sense - it could take years to make a vaccine, and there is no evidence that a vaccine will ever be effective.

MERS and SARS are caused by a Corona virus.  They spread around the World, reaching the U.S.  There were no shutdowns. and no vaccine.  SARS was notably fatal - about 10%. Yet normal life activities continued.

When I joined Troop 43 in 1954, it had two Explorer Crews, wearing the Green Uniform.  Then, a local, William Spurgeon, did us dirt by heading the committee of adults that rolled out the third "new" program for 14 and older youth on the basis of an academic study of what high school aged boys wanted: no separate Explorer ranks (Rating Strips leading to Bronze, Gold and Silver awards); no Explorers in troops - so goodbye green uniform unless you left your troop and joined an "Exploring Post"; the compass/anchor/wings was replaced with what we disdainfully called "the Swish" as the  ExplorING symbol.  Of course, they never asked us what we wanted. Like the other thirteen Explorers in Troop 43, I rejected "ING" and stayed with my troop as a "Senior Scout," until I became an adult and an SA.  I was the last in my Council to earn the Silver Award.  Soon, like "Boy Scouting" and "Explorers,"  we will be gone.  Only the fittest survive.

4 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 

 

And that is a mistake IMHO. You need to have a basic understanding of the program in order to promote the program. Plus the more experience you have, the better able to help your struggling units  if you do not have enough/any commissioners. If you don't meet the minimum training requested of Volunteers, how can you help them?

Grant you I was not the normal DE. I already had 5 years as a ASM, and 2 years as a Chapter Adviser and Explorer Post Associate Adviser. While the Scouters had some reservations about me initially,  but when they saw me willing to get down and dirty with them at an Ordeal ( my old lodge's motto was a clean sash is the sign of a lazy Arrowman  ) that got their respect and trust.

And while I did have to go through Cub Scout Basic Leader Training (day long course covering ALL Cub Scout Leader positions), my experience working on staff at various Cub Scout programs, and the work the OA did with Arrow of Light and Cross Over Ceremonies made a big difference in gaining respect in that community.

 

This is what happens when a MOVEMENT turns into a BUSINESS. I think Scouting is about to get a lot smaller, and fees are about to skyrocket.

 

Hoffer's three stages of a cause:

1. Movement

2. Business

3. Racket

4 hours ago, carebear3895 said:

"trained" is an interesting word for Professionals these days. 

As no one presently as National can explain what the Patrol Method is - a requirement for a new Scout seeking Scout Rank - "interesting" is  accurate comment.

So, for some reason, the present regime is not working as expected - the the national economy collapses.

What now?

Over generations, some basic concepts were accepted:

Program quality - outdoors, excitement, challenge, Scout planned and led - drives membership.

Advancement is a result of quality program and, otherwise, a bad idea.

Advancement is not a goal of Scouting.

Program is to be experiential - Scouts learn and grow by doing.

Scouting is not to be anything like school.

I see little sign that National is committed to any of these points.

39 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

@TAHAWK,  just curious - has your council seen a greater decline in Scouting than the National Average?

He sounds 180 degrees from my SE and we have seen slight growth. 

YES - PRETTY MUCH THAT WAY FOR THIRTY-FIVE YEARS.

In that time we have had five SEs - 

One dud, two extreme duds, one nice gent but retired-in-place, and one somewhat effective (but promoted fake registrations and left Council broke for successor).  

Ten years ago, under the previous council Training Chair, a big problem at IOLS was many  learners not wanting to leave at the end of the course Sunday Noon.  Now, with the "No List" over 130, only 10 "official trainers, and an SE whose response to complaints about  understaffed, poor, boring training is, as noted, not to have training, the Death Spiral is picking up speed.

One, resulting, behavior is many Wood Badge participants who have had no prior training whatsoever. ("We don' need no stinkin' rules!")

This is the SE who eliminated districts in favor of employee-run "service teams."

This is the "entitled"SE who ended FOS - "We shouldn't have to ask every year, over and over" - in favor of seeking  time-unlimited commitments to automatic electronic drafts from you bank account.  Fund-raising crashed.