Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by T2Eagle

  1. No maybe on the rain jacket, thunderstorms are common this time of year.
  2. "A surgeon would later reattach the bone holding his nose to his skull, using four plates and some 20 screws that remain in place" that ain't no bloody nose; he also missed two months plus of work. That's a pretty big financial hit, possibly devastating to he and his family, especially if he has anything but first class medical coverage. As DavidCO said this might have been driven by an insurance company, or it might have been driven by desperation. I'll withhold judgment without a whole lot more information.
  3. I'm always a fan of scouts thinking ahead and thinking outside the box. I like it.
  4. For our camp and our troop those would be fine. My crocs, which I wear around the campsite but not really for trucking all over summer camp, are they type which have a heel strap and so would, I think, satisfy Treflienne's concerns.
  5. Camps can have their own sets of rules, some internal, some dictated by the state because they're camps. In addition to whatever forms your camp requires for summer camp your troop should require the BSA Annual Health and Medical Record (AHMR) for everybody in the troop and anybody going on an outing with you. "For any and all Scouting activities, all participants must complete Part A and Part B." https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/680-001_AB.pdf The two authorizations are not necessarily in conflict with each other. The camp has an authorization to administer OTC and the troop has authorization to administer OTC. Given what the camp form says you could check with them for their opinion of whether you refer everything to them while at camp. Our camp has us send everything above band aid level to them.
  6. Our council camp's shower/bath facilities are all individually doored with no common areas. They added some changing rooms at the pools, but I believe that had already been on a list of planned improvements to accommodate the increasing number of female leaders at camp. There were no restrictions on weeks or campsites. I haven't had a chance yet to ask how many female only troops we were expecting.
  7. BSA Med Form Part B Has a yes/no question authorizing non prescription medications and and any exceptions to that permission. One more reason why leaders need to be sure they've read and understood the med forms for everyone on a trip.
  8. This is why National has to keep adding rules to the GTSS. Coming soon, a rule against homemade boats on scout outings --- why, not because it's inherently unsafe or a fun idea to do as J76 does, but because somewhere out there is another group like this
  9. Do you have reason to believe there's money in the account? If so your best bet is find out from the bank who is listed as an authorized signatory and try to track that person down and have him transfer access to you. If there's no money it's probably easiest to just start from scratch. If you can't get good information from the bank, or if you can't find who last had access, than you'll need to get your Chartering Organization involved, the bank account should be under their tax ID number and they'll have to claim the funds from the bank.
  10. I reread your post a couple times to make sure I understood the facts as you're reporting them. I definitely think you should hold a committee meeting, and you're within your rights to suspend the scout if that's what you as CC want and/or if that's what your committee reaches a consensus about. I would add some cautionary notes for you. First, I would be leery about involving anyone outside the unit until you have decided as a unit what you want to do. Because if you do involve outsiders than you may lose control over the situation and end up being forced to do something that is counter to what the troop leadership wants to do, and this could go either way, the troop may want to be more punitive or the troop may want to be more lenient in its reaction than what a DE or UC or Council would want. I would note that the Chartering Org is not outside the unit, and I leave it to you to decide if this is something they would feel strongly about being a part of the decision making. The reason I caution about going outside is because you have somewhat shakier facts than you may believe. You have an accusation from one parent that they saw this scout smoking pot. What exactly did they see? How much of what they reported was direct evidence and how much was a conclusion arrived at from some things that may have been more equivocal? Second you have what's called hearsay. You can fully believe that he told the younger scouts that he had THC and stole from the trading post, but that's not the same as knowing that he had THC or stole; it might well be braggadocio on his part and both things could just be made up. That doesn't at all make it OK, and saying those things is sufficiently unscoutlike and worthy of punishment in and of themselves. I'm not at all down playing them. But it's because of some of the ambiguity of what exactly you know that I would say handle this in the troop first and only go outside if you can't resolve it within the troop and believe that outside intervention is necessary for the sake of the troop's cohesion.
  11. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/07/big-in-peacekeeping-boy-scouts/590614/
  12. Having read the article, the only thing it really says is that Philmont and SBR are going to have some sort of family camping available soon. I don't have a strong opinion about that. The devil is in the details. But for SBR I would like to see them open it up to weekend camping for scouts first. We go to WV for rafting and end up staying in commercial campgrounds a couple miles from SBR. I don't understand why we can't just camp there like we could at pretty much every other Council camp in the country.
  13. There is a more in depth document referenced in the on line guide that you can click through to: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/SAFE_USE_OF_MEDICATION_IN_SCOUTING.pdf The essence of it is that leaders, parents, and scouts work together to determine what is the best way to handle a scout's medications. As KC mentioned, some scout camps have their own rules, there are also some states that have specific rules. Michigan for instance requires that an adult hold and distribute prescription meds. Our camp does not require that we hold the meds, and within the troop we handle it individually --- some scouts can handle their own, some are better if held by the leaders. I always know who takes what and check up on it even if the scout is handling it himself (just as I do with my own kids). So there's really nothing and no one to "report" this to in the sense that something necessarily wrong occurred. This is more a situation for the unit to work through. Was there pre-existing guidance within either the troop or camp regarding either phones or meds? Going through anybody's personal belongings is something that should only be done after some consideration. Scout's have a reasonable expectation of privacy regarding their belongings and that should be taken into consideration. This is the type of thing you have a calm, quiet chat about when everyone is back home, showered, well fed and well rested.
  14. Meh, I ate in dining halls in the 60s and 70s. Maybe the comfort level then was the near universal military experience of our adult leaders. Where I live now, Pioneer Scout Reservation, which has its own issues as a MB camp, has various levels of cooking from bring your own food, to cook what we deliver, to mess halls. We ask our scouts what they want to do, they choose mess hall. We do all patrol cooking the rest of the year and really cultivate it as a skill; the scouts would just rather focus their time and energy on other pursuits at summer camp.
  15. There are a couple different things to unpack here. First the easy stuff: there is almost certainly no such thing as "troop insurance"; BSA carries insurance for all scout activities. Search the BSA website and these forums for better explanation. It is possible, but highly unlikely that your Chartering Organization has some supplemental insurance that covers its youth and/or scouting activities, but that would be really unusual and not in the control of the troop anyway. Since it sounds like your son is in the troop this is a topic you should be able to discuss with your troop leadership, independent of this incident, just to clarify what nonsense they think they're talking about. Second is the relationship between the troop and pack. There could be good, bad, and just lazy/dumb reasons why the troop would not support this activity. Troops have their own program and activities that they have planned and it takes concerted effort just to make them work; adding in another activity just because someone else thought it would be a good idea, and maybe it is, isn't as simple as saying sure let's do that. It's well within the troop leadership's purview to decide to just do nothing about the event --- not support it, not communicate it, not participate --- and they don't really need to have any better reason to do that than to feel that they have a full plate and simply don't want to add another activity to it. But at a minimum, they should have had the courtesy to tell you that. It's worth keeping in mind that this was the pack's event, it was very nice that they were willing to invite the troop to participate, but an invitation compels no more obligation than an answer, in no way was the troop obligated to participate in any way just because they were invited. The fact that you were expecting them to tell you who was going indicates that you maybe assumed they were obligated to participate, including by helping to organize part of the list of participants. I think the troop's behavior was poor because they should have declined your invitation if that's what they intended, they also were way off in telling troop members not to participate; that's not their call regarding your pack or any other scout unit. If you want to invite members of the troop to join in a pack activity that's great, it's your activity, you're responsible for making sure it complies with all BSA rules, and the troop really has nothing to do with it one way or another. If this was my troop, we would have said "That sounds nice, we'll pass along the information to the troop, send us an email with the details and we'll pass that along." It wouldn't have been our event, but we'd be happy if people decided to participate. It sounds like the troop and pack are part of the same chartering organization and so their relationship is an important one that both sides need to recognize and work on. I would suggest asking to meet with the troop leadership and have a broader discussion about what that relationship should look like and how can it be mutually beneficial.
  16. Like everyone else said. The first of the four digits is a unit type, it isn't included when you're putting the unit number on a uniform. My units are Pack 3099 and Troop 0099, but we're actually Pack and Troop 99. 422, as long as it's not taken, should be fine. When you're entering a unit number in the system or on an application you'll use 4422, but just put 422 on your uniforms.
  17. Can't follow your post TAHAWK. Codes of military justice aren't really applicable to anything here, and the bit about appropriate isn't in the section you cited.
  18. Sorry TAHAWK, but you're getting everyone wound up here for nothing. The "mens rea" of theft requires that the deprivation of the property be intended to be permanent or near permanent. From the same Ohio Code: Chapter 2913: THEFT AND FRAUD 2913.01 Theft and fraud general definitions. As used in this chapter, unless the context requires that a term be given a different meaning: (C) "Deprive" means to do any of the following: (1) Withhold property of another permanently, or for a period that appropriates a substantial portion of its value or use, or with purpose to restore it only upon payment of a reward or other consideration; If you see a kid snapping pictures in a bath house take the phone. If you want to have a rule that says no phones (bad rule IMO) and you want to take the phone until you get home, don't worry, the local gendarmes will not be knocking on your door.
  19. Our troop went through several iterations of views on electronics, from absolutely none, to OK to use them in a car on the ride there, to our current policy that phones are a tool, and like all tools need to be used correctly. As with most things, it was the adults who had the hardest time adjusting to the evolution of this practice. There is no one right way to experience the outdoors, and there is certainly no one way to prevent or treat homesickness. I've had kids for whom having contact was a good thing, and some for whom the contact didn't help. Most often setting limits and expectations seems to provide the most consistent results: call home once or twice a day, maybe after dinner, maybe last thing before bed. But there is no one size fits all, the most important thing is communication between the leader and the parent to work together to help the scout manage his distress. I feel strongly that our troop, our leaders, and our scouts are in a better position to decide this than some blanket decision by a camp director or council Camping Committee. One example I use to illustrate for other scouters why our troop has the practice that we do comes from a Philmont trip a couple years ago. A handful of scouts and two adults from our troop were set to go to Philmont as part of our council contingent. The trek leader was going to be a scouter from another troop who pretty much makes the trip every year. During the shakeout phase he told the scouts that they absolutely would not be allowed to have phones with them on the trek. They would need to get cameras for pictures, wouldn't be allowed to contact anyone outside the trek, etc. Why? Because that's just the way you should do Philmont. I know this scouter, and for all his virtues, he does often espouse the view that there is only one right way to do things. By the time the actual trip came my troop's scouts were part of a different crew led by one of our adults and fleshed out by a couple of scouts and an adult from a third troop. During the trek, soon after summitting Baldy, my scouts managed to find just enough of a signal to text me a photo of them from the top and a long heartfelt thanks for having been instrumental in preparing them for the great adventure they were on. It brought tears to my eyes when I received it, and I since have printed and framed both the note and the picture. Any argument that their doing that was somehow wrong, given the pleasure it brought both me and them, seems totally absurd to me.
  20. What's most needed I think is a lot more transparency about finances from both councils and national. There may have been a time when corporate and community donations funded a good part of the council costs, but I suspect that for many if not most councils those days are past. Absent donations what other revenues does a council have? There's whatever they charge for summer camp, which for most councils is probably going to be a break even operation at best, if they're lucky summer camp will fund the camp for the whole year. After that there's maybe a meager profit from a scout shop plus some tack on fees for activities like camporees, training sessions, etc. But all of that together would barely keep the lights on let alone par for staff to do recruiting, unit service, organizational work et al. If I understand the article correctly, the change that's being made in that council is that each unit has to come up with $125 per scout but will now keep all of their popcorn profits. Since popcorn revenue is generally 1/3 to the company and 2/3 profit that would mean that if you want to fund this simply through popcorn each scout would need to sell about $187 in popcorn each year. I suspect the SE is correct that this will be a problem for the 20% of units that don't currently participate in council fundraising, but most other units will be OK. I don't know that this is the best way to handle this, but I've always thought that most councils not charging a per scout fee that stayed in house was probably short sighted, and it's the shock of this transition that is going to be the biggest problem. There's no such thing as a free lunch, and the money has to come from somewhere. One thing not clear here is whether FOS funds raised in the units will also count towards the $125 fee.
  21. There's never an exact number of patches produced. Email or call the headquarters in Irving TX, somebody will be able to scare one up for you.
  22. If you have a goal to have x number of eagles or if you measure your success by the number or percentage of scouts who make eagle, then you're probably an "eagle mill" that's overly focused on rank. The troop in the article sounds pretty unique. The troop members appear to be all or almost all from the same private K-12 school and their activities seem to be an integral part of their curriculum. That provides a level of support, continuity, and homogeneity that probably couldn't be duplicated anywhere else.
  23. Treatises have been written about why litigation costs are high. These days litigation costs are going to be high for everyone. It is a truism that Defendants want to pay later and Plaintiffs want to get paid sooner. To the extent that a prolonging litigation is going to benefit anyone it would be employed by someone defending against a lawsuit not by someone seeking to collect for negligence.
  24. Often, when people use the word liability, they're not really understanding the word itself. Here's a definition from a law dictionary: Liabiity--The state of being bound or obliged in law or justice to do, pay, or make good something; legal responsibility. This isn't a complete definition, but it's a good start. What I think you're asking about is risk. What risk am I taking on by being a scout leader? More specifically what financial risk am I taking on by being a scout leader? The answer is actually probably not much, but it's worth walking through it. Let's look at a hypothetical situation where a scout in your care gets hurt. The main question that will arise is whether you were negligent, that is, did you exercise the same care that a reasonable and prudent person in the same circumstances would have done. Let's be honest, we have all failed this test, but the vast majority of the time it doesn't matter because nothing bad happens as a result. But let's say this time it did. You're going to be sued, it's going to be astoundingly annoying and exasperating, and time consuming. But the good news is that in the end it probably won't cost you more than that because the BSA actually provides good insurance coverage protecting you against your own negligence. I've never been able to get a definitive figure, but the coverage is in the millions and is going to cover almost anything you can think of, and it includes all the legal costs of defending you. As Qwasze mentioned, many volunteers carry their own insurance policy in addition to whatever BSA provides. I do this in the form of a million dollar "umbrella" policy, the cost is relatively low and the peace of mind is high. As with most things, driving a car poses a much greater financial risk than any scouting activity ever will. The worst thing that's going to happen to you if a kid gets hurt is that you're going to feel absolutely terrible that that scout got hurt. Only you can decide if the joy of helping young people build good lives is worth the risk that one of them may be hurt or worse while in your care.
  25. From that website: "Please use caution and carry a map. Those planning to hike the longer trails should carry at least two to three quarts of water per person and wear proper footwear. Please remember that summer temperatures often exceed 100° F" It's a terrible tragedy, but a reminder to everyone, if you're out of water you turn around, and you should have turned around sooner.
  • Create New...