SWScouter

I was inducted into the Order of the Arrow in your lodge, T'Kope Kwiskwis, back in 1974 or 1975. I have vivid memories of the ceremonies in the long house. I was very happy to hear it has been rebuilt and opened again.

There should be ways to serve the order without being involved in the Native American aspects of it. I'm a chapter adviser. The chapter has a Chief and several Vice Chiefs. There's a Vice Chief of Inductions, a Vice Chief of Events, a Vice Chief of Service and Camping, a Vice Chief of Communications, and a Vice Chief of Indian Affairs. I advise the Chief and there is an adviser for each of the Vice Chiefs. I'm sure the chapter you're a part of probably has a similar structure. As such, you could certainly check to see if the chapter needs an adviser for a Vice Chief that isn't involved in the Native American aspects.

Also, perhaps the emphasis is on the Native American aspects of things because there hasn't been anyone able to concentrate on the other aspects of the OA traditions so those aspects have suffered. An adviser dedicated to say, service, might help give the proper balance back to the chapter.

I suggest talking to the Chapter Adviser. Let him or her know that you are interested in getting involved and about how you would like to help.

Was it really necessary to include the man's personal information? We should try to be more careful about that. Perhaps someone can edit it out of the post.

Yes, I suggest taking LeCastor's and Torchwood's advice to heart.

First, I think it is rather unprofessional to post a letter you wrote for the National Committee here. Second, as ChaiAdventure states, the letter is unorganized and not cohesive at all. I do hope whoever receives it has some background on the situation because it really doesn't stand on its own. Frankly, I doubt that that letter will help your cause at all as you have very poorly presented your case.

I'm sorry about the problems you have with your lodge and hope that things can be worked out. Good luck.

Received my information packet via email today for this weekends Ordeal and I find it rather odd they need to include what to bring? I mean seriously its a campout! shouldn't they know?

Sorry, but it is not a campout, it's an ordeal. For example, the candidates should not be bringing food, snacks, or cooking gear. They shouldn't be bringing a tent. They should be bringing work clothes, their uniform, and so on.

Are you sure this is Conclave or is it an Ordeal or some other work weekend? Conclave's are for a Section which is made up of several lodges, and has training and competitions.

In addition to advising the Chapter Chief, the Chapter Adviser needs to recruit and assign Associate Chapter Advisers so that the Chapter Vice Chiefs will each have an adviser. The Chapter Adviser needs to work closely with the Chapter Chief and the rest of the Chapter Executive Council (CEC) - The Chief, Vice Chiefs, and their advisers to ensure the chapter is functional and meets its purpose.

My lodge is issuing NOAC 2015 lodge pocket flap patches. I am new to the OA so I do not know the proper patch etiquette. Can you wear this patch on your uniform? Are the patches to be worn only if you go to NOAC? Or are they for collecting and trading?

There is no rule prohibiting you from wearing one of your lodge's lodge flaps on your uniform. My lodge is also issuing several NOAC 2015 lodge flaps. There will be a lodge flap for the contingent members, there will be a "trader" patch, there will be a fund-raiser patch, etc. If I wasn't going, I wouldn't wear a contingent member flap on my uniform, but I might just wear the trader or fund-raiser patch. It really depends on you.

I have encountered many error messages in this forum since the software change' date=' but I just saw a new one, and I think it is the strangest one yet. I wrote a short response to a post, hit "Post Reply" and got "Missing human verification information." Really? What species does it think I am? Does the system believe that an infinite number of monkeys has taken control of my account? As usual, the "Copy, log out, log in, paste" method did the trick. But it sure was odd to have my evolutionary status challenged like that.[/quote']

I imagine that some verification that you, the poster, are a person instead of a spam bot, failed for some reason.

What's the best answer to holding productive PLC's with members scattered across four states? What works for you?

Do you mean holding LEC meetings? Perhaps rotating the meetings around the whole lodge region. This would give the various chapters an opportunity to host the LEC meetings. Also, using some sort of conference calling might be beneficial. You could even use some sort of virtual meeting type software to share documents such as MS Lync or even Skype.

~~I've heard it and I don't care for that term at all and wish it was never coined. A scout has no obligation, absolutely none, to do anything in the OA. Who's to say that the scout isn't active and supporting his unit just because he never does anything with the lodge or chapter? He certainly didn't pledge to do so at the ordeal

 

 

Wrong!!! All members pledge.

 

 

I, John Doe, on my honor as a scout, will always and faithfully observe and preserve the traditions of the order of the arrow.

 

 

If you take the obligation to be a member, that means you are expected to live up to the oath. Just like the scout promise and law.

 

 

First, I wrote that in response to

So Many Paper OA Members...Ever hear of Sash and Dash

Yes, pledge to observe and preserve the traditions of the Order of the Arrow, WWW. That is not the same as pledging to go to chapter meetings, lodge fellowships, etc.

Just fold the sash over like an "s" at shoulder level and drop a roll of stitching at the top and bottom of the "s", will take less time then this post.

 

I miss the days when scouts had to know how to sew to earn Second Class.

That won't really work correctly as the length needs to be removed from the two ends, not the middle. Also, I think that would look bad.

We have an Official Snack food of the Boy Scouts of America now. I don't see why we can not have an Official Kilt

 

Yes, I understand. What I understand is that if you think the non-"official" part is going to protect you if something goes wrong, you may be in for a nasty surprise one day. Please know that I am not trying to pick on you. You are only trying to provide a good outdoor experience for your Scouts, which is great. But I have been hearing about these "unofficial" or "family" or "group of friends" outings for years, both in this forum and in real life - whether it's laser-tag, whitewater rafting for Cub Scouts, or whatever. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck, and more importantly, it may sue you like a duck. (Ok, that line didn't really work, but I'm leaving it in anyway.)

I read it as: hey guys, you can do things with each other outside of scouts including outdoor stuff.

The scout did nothing wrong or illegal' date=' a border patrol officer is not an undercover agent in any way so it is not illegal to take their picture They are little more than security cops whose duty it is to verify identities and citizenship and if there is reasonable cause can search for contraband. They can arrest and detain only if the ID is questionable or a person is hiding something illegal. That officer for drawing down on a kid for such a minor act should be terminated, they are better trained than that.[/quote']

Seriously? Why don't you take a drive along Arizona, New Mexico, California, and Texas and observe the many things the border patrol does in addition to your list.

I was in scouts from 71 to 77 or so near Seattle. We did a lot of camping and, backpacking. The troop didn't have a lot of gear. I remember those military half tents, cook kits, svea stoves and snow shoes. Nothing more. The tents were only used if we didn't hike far into camp. Most of the backpacking trips, each scout brought a 10'x10' sheet of 4 mil plastic. We needed to know how to tie taut lines and two-half hitches to set up camp. A rope between two trees, a pinecone on the corners of the tarp to make leantos. Curl the uphill side of the ground tarp around sticks to keep the water underneath. We were wet a lot. Most outings we cooked over a fire and coated the outside of the pots with soap. I remember eating a lot of ash covered pancakes from the coals shifting. We carried cups on our belts and dipped them in creeks for a drink as we hiked by. I think the stoves were only used when it was so darn wet that setting up a cooking fire would take half the day. I sort of remember an adult or two being on the outings but I don't remember them ever doing anything more than just being there.

I remember working on skill awards at troop meetings but the troop didn't push advancement other than first class skills. I don't believe any scouts earned Eagle while I was a member. The only reason I earned Star was that I just happened to notice I had completed most all the requirements and let the Scoutmaster know.

My scouting experience was completely different than my sons. We both went to summer camp and went on camp outs. My son's troop never went backpacking. I tried to get them out, but none of the adults were physically up to it and one adult no longer flies. On their outings, they have all kinds of gear. A trailer, and patrol boxes, chairs and cots. I don't think the self reliance and team work that developed with the camping I did as a scout is even possible with the type of camping of my son's troop. There were plenty of well meaning adults, but perhaps that was the problem.

Like resqman wrote, we were just a bunch of goofy kids who wanted to go out and have fun and we did.

I was in scouts from 71 to 77 or so near Seattle. We did a lot of camping and, backpacking. The troop didn't have a lot of gear. I remember those military half tents, cook kits, svea stoves and snow shoes. Nothing more. The tents were only used if we didn't hike far into camp. Most of the backpacking trips, each scout brought a 10'x10' sheet of 4 mil plastic. We needed to know how to tie taut lines and two-half hitches to set up camp. A rope between two trees, a pinecone on the corners of the tarp to make leantos. Curl the uphill side of the ground tarp around sticks to keep the water underneath. We were wet a lot. Most outings we cooked over a fire and coated the outside of the pots with soap. I remember eating a lot of ash covered pancakes from the coals shifting. We carried cups on our belts and dipped them in creeks for a drink as we hiked by. I think the stoves were only used when it was so darn wet that setting up a cooking fire would take half the day. I sort of remember an adult or two being on the outings but I don't remember them ever doing anything more than just being there.

I remember working on skill awards at troop meetings but the troop didn't push advancement other than first class skills. I don't believe any scouts earned Eagle while I was a member. The only reason I earned Star was that I just happened to notice I had completed most all the requirements and let the Scoutmaster know.

My scouting experience was completely different than my sons. We both went to summer camp and went on camp outs. My son's troop never went backpacking. I tried to get them out, but none of the adults were physically up to it and one adult no longer flies. On their outings, they have all kinds of gear. A trailer, and patrol boxes, chairs and cots. I don't think the self reliance and team work that developed with the camping I did as a scout is even possible with the type of camping of my son's troop. There were plenty of well meaning adults, but perhaps that was the problem.

Like resqman wrote, we were just a bunch of goofy kids who wanted to go out and have fun and we did.

Here we are taking a break from the day's hike on a 50 miler in the Olympics. I think this was August 76.

FWIW' date=' my son hated the Jamboree tent. He said it was too hot, for one thing. [/quote']

 

and that the showers were too cold.

... Variety ...

... Effort ....

... Experts ....

All good comments. I was specifically addressing

Unless we have another Leonardo Davinci out there' date=' no one is knowledgeable enough to be a MBC for more than a hand full of merit badges.[/quote']

I didn't mean to address how many merit badges one should counsel for. As you suggest, besides one's knowledge and ability, there are good reasons one should limit that.

Fred,

 

You've got a good handle on the issue, and have brought out another problem with the system.

 

Although I don't think you need to be a NASA engineer to teach Space X, you certainly need a solid understanding of the topic. Unless we have another Leonardo Davinci out there, no one is knowledgeable enough to be a MBC for more than a hand full of merit badges.

 

You're also correct about the need in interact with many different adults during the advancement process, and we all know that is an intentional element of advancement.

Only a handful of merit badges? Oh come on.

For example, I have a masters in computer science so I'm well qualified to counsel Digital Technology and Programming. I'm sure I could manage Robotics too. I've been geocaching several years and counsel Geocaching MB. I hike and backpack and camp so there's three more merit badges I counsel. I raced bicycles and coached, so I'm qualified to counsel for Cycling MB and Personal Fitness MB. When younger, I was on swim team and have been a life guard so another two merit badges I could counsel for. I was involved in archery, made my own arrows and strings, that's another MB.

So far, that's over ten and I could keep on going. In general merit badges are an introduction to a subject and only a reasonable general level of knowledge (solid understanding) is needed to counsel for one. I would suggest most people are qualified to counsel at least a handful of merit badges. Whether that person would want to is a different question.

Boy' date=' that seems to be the overall feeling - I'm finding that very few people are 100% on board with it. I do like that the lines are more evenly distributed between the four Principals and I do appreciate and "get" the symbolism interwoven in the ceremony (but I'm pretty sure it will go right over the heads of about 90% of all Candidates). I think people were expecting and wanting a change, just not sure this was it. Would have been nice if the revision would have been more open to input - i.e. make it open to the general "OA public", if you will. Have a sort of 'contest' where people who are honestly serious about offering a revised ceremony would be able to submit a draft, from those drafts, maybe ten are chosen and those ten write and submit a final ceremony and one is chosen (or maybe pieces/parts of two or more are combined) for the official revised ceremony. I don't think that's the way it was done though. I suspect one designated writer and some tweaking of that version and it was a done deal, take it or leave it. Not to sound like an anarchist or stir up the pot, but I have to seriously wonder if some Lodges will simply opt not to do the new one (?).[/quote']

The changes to the Brotherhood ceremony have been in progress for a long time. Probably two or more years. The preview was made so that it could be shown at conclaves and feedback received and reviewed. I know some advisors for my chapter's ceremony team had an early draft and sent in comments on it. It is my understanding that a lot of comments and feedback was received from many lodges and taken into consideration when finalizing the ceremony. I was not involved in that so I do not know how the review process was managed, but it did occur and the update was open and not as you suspect.

I've never seen it since the switch to vBulletin either.

Ummm Interesting ...If That was so any scout could join OA...and there would not be membership requirements before you Eligible to Be VOTED in. So Many Paper OA Members...Ever hear of Sash and Dash

I've heard it and I don't care for that term at all and wish it was never coined. A scout has no obligation, absolutely none, to do anything in the OA. Who's to say that the scout isn't active and supporting his unit just because he never does anything with the lodge or chapter? He certainly didn't pledge to do so at the ordeal.

From an OA Handbook, Purpose of the Order:

To recognize those campers - Scouts and Scouters - who best exemplify the Scout Oath and Law in their daily lives and by such recognition cause other campers to conduct themselves in such manner as to warrant recognition.

It's a shame the 100th anniversary NOAC couldn't be at UI Bloomington. My son's going, but I remain on the fence. Like so much OA, NOAC has began to loose touch with both it's purpose, and that of the OA, substituting goofy games, and fun activities for OA program with a purpose.

 

I've been a member, and adamant supporter, of the OA for thirty four years, but the program is loosing its focus. NOAC would be the perfect place to begin putting the program back on track ... but I fear it's becoming a huge frat party, without the liquor.

I don't follow what the location of NOAC has to do with the program loosing its focus. At any rate, I'm signed up and am very much looking forward to NOAC 2015!

I talked with my nephew (a lodge chief in New York)a few days ago he said they were shown a preview of the new Ceremony a few months ago at a conclave. The response was 10% thumbs up,10% don't know, and 80% thumbs down.

That does not fill me with optimism

I saw the preview at my section's conclave last October. It was well received. I think most who saw it thought it would be a good update. One nice thing is the ceremony is now much more evenly distributed across the four principles.