SSScout

When  B-P started "Scouting", it was (correct me here if I am wrong in my interpretation and memory) because the young soldiers he met in his army were rather weak and ignorant in things that related to their survival in the ranks. His first attempts were aimed at educating the young men in skills and ideas.  The young men in the general society  found these ideas attractive, and so began "Boy Scouting".  B-P's good wife took the ideas and found traction in the female part of society and so Girl Guides began.   Were there societal limitations, yes. Certain "types" of young men and women were not invited or made welcome. But the ideals were never defined so exclusionary. 

When this new movement was brought to America,  the new Scout Promise and Law certainly had some hints (" ... morally straight...") but nothing absolutely defined or declared.  Perhaps that was intentional, noting some room for future possibilities. Maybe....

I say the true morality (if there is such a thing)  has always included treating PEOPLE with respect and equality.  It is our personal definition of what PEOPLE are that is in contention.  The survival of OUR PEOPLE.  Who is that? Tribe? Society? Nation? Sect? Race? Culture?  How is that to be  accomplished?  By sufficient procreation?   War?  Land zoning regulation?  Yellow stars sewn on clothing? Billy clubs?  Food rationing?  

Scouting became an outlet for many folks' way of defining "their" people. Exclusion rather than inclusion.  Did the Scout Promise or Law help that?  Depends on what they decided to pay attention to , and what parts to ignore. 

We are now trying to understand and correct those limitations.   Let's see if we can expand who "our people" are. 

20 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Sadly to many Adults and Scouts see summer camp as summer school. We did something very similar in 2020 when covid shut down camps.. While the Scouts had fun and enjoyed themselves,  when offered to do it again, they declined because they want those MBs. And one of my adults said doing your own camp is a waste of time because you are missing out on MBs.

But I have some good memories, and so do the Scouts.

Oh, MBs ! Our DiY camp included them, too. I remember Nature, Astronomy and Camping and Pioneering.  As an adult Scouter now, I can now come to realize and appreciate the effort that went into such an event. Scout Led, for sure, but the adults set up the OPPORTUNITY for that leading....

This memory certainly won't apply to most , but here goes. 

 I had a unique Scout time, unique families, unique dads and moms, I guess....

As a new Tendefoot, I didn't know any better, but looking back....

Somebody's uncle/grandfather (who knows now) had some wooded property. We camped there regularly. It had a spring for good water that we capped with a big concrete pipe. Idea ! Let's have our own summer camp !  With the cooperation of a  dad who worked for the phone company, we got several creosoted telephone poles, drug 'em in with a Jeep and tractor, cut them up, built a three sided Adirondack cabin into the hillside. This became the Quatermaster cabin.  Cleared some areas on both side of the creek for Patrol Campsites. Dragged, carried in picknick table parts, built tables at the sites.  Suitable trees and poles and tarps, we had dining areas.  Stones out of the creek, campfire areas and grills for cooking.  American Chestnut down and dead, best firewood in the world, burned with a blue flame. Other "ordinary" wood for "campfire " in the evenings. "Baker" style tents, standard, but each Scout bought their own.  Dammed up the creek for a "swimming " (wading) hole.  Scouting Skills taught and learned . Meals cooked over wood coals, some of us were better cooks than others, some of us washed dishes better than others....  We did summer camp there " 759 Camp Freedom" , for a week for several years of my Scout career, and I went off to other summer camps, for comparison, I guess.  Each better or not so in some respects, but I do remember helping to build that camp.  Came back to it many years later, the cabin had all but returned to the earth, the capped spring had been dug out (county ordinance, I guess. It had been bought and , at least in part, turned into a religious retreat center.... 

Sloooowly I turned.... step by step....

1) The BSA model requires a corporate sponsor of some kind: Church/mosque/synagogue, fire department, hardware store, PTA,  private school,  private tree company, I have seen many different  COs.

2)  BIG corporate sponsors (Bechtel,  what was Philmont named from? ) give money,  and do it to gain some "good points" (Karma? Is that a thing in the biz world?), publicity is always a good thing.  John H. Smith  Flag Pole....  naming can be done as appropriate.  Smithsonian Institution comes to mind.  

3) Sometimes it is "anonymous" that gives the money to build a camp dining hall, or a new fleet of sailboats.  Sometimes it is just the woman who says, "no thanks , don't need a christmas wreath, but I love Scouts, here's $20. "

4) Sometimes it's the Eagle Scout who ages out, takes his "Scout Account" (which he never utilized) and buys the Troop a new Trailer, suitably decorated and down in the corner is the notation "donated by Eagle Scout Jackie Jones, 1998"

5)  I do not agree with supplanting the usual Scout symbology with corporate logos.  The New Troop Flag will note "TROOP 9999 (Scout fleur de lis) Johnson's Business" if that is appropriate.   On the necker? no.... On the sign out front (""MEETS HERE"")  works for me.  On a T-Shirt? ummmm maybe , depending...  On a ball cap?   Troop number up front, corp logo on the back, perhaps....   

""Check boxes like in school"...

But life isn't about "check boxes".   We teach history, math, geography, not just to check off boxes, but to TRY and make sure that our progeny don't have to learn the same stuff our GGgrandparents  did , perhaps at risk/cost of their lives.   

Scouting is fairly simple by comparison.  We have automobiles and airplanes, but still walk. Blisters can be avoided by ....  Shelter is nice, so we set up fabric roofs, held by sticks and rope.  Food is better if slightly burnt, so we make fires and cook....  If these things are not TAUGHT and LEARNT and USED,  Scouting becomes less fun and more "oh gee dad, do I have to?"     The games can , should be used to  ensure the skills are there when needed.  

Ropes and knots especially can be fun and even "magical"   .  Teach the chain knot, demo the shortening loops,   Show both the INSIDE Bowline (correct) and the OUTSIDE Bowline (works, but incorrect)  and the LOSERS Bowline (looks right, fails miserably).    Build  Lookout Towers to teach basic engineering and lashing AND knots.   Watch Master and Commander ,  and/or The Old Man And The Sea..... 

Scouting?   Well, what is Scouting?  Remember B P's response to the question:  "...prepared for what?"   " Why, for any old thing...". 

Your SM is missing an important idea here if he/she is only concerned with "knowing knots".  The Scout's attitude toward the ideals,  the lore of Scouting, her/his expectations of Scouting is what should be the goal of the SMConference.  I have known Leaders , not just in Scouting, who might "twiddle" with a piece of rope while they talk,  gives one something to think about . 

Way before I was "just a twinkle in his wife's eye",  My dad was a steel rigger. He had never been a Scout. When I became a Scout, I found ropes and knots to be alot of fun and very useful.  My grandfather on my mom's side had joined the navy , but was under age at the time, so when he was found out, he was discharged. He saved, and I have in my "files" his joining and discharge papers. He had taken training on the USS Constitution (!! ) when it was still used as a regular training ship. Talk about rope work..... I thought this was infinitely cool.  I inherited stuff,  often my dad took old things in as  payment for his landscaping work. From his workshop, I found/took in   200 feet of 7/8" manila rope and two double sheave blocks. "Block and Tackle"...   I used that for lifting and moving things for many years before the rope finally gave out. Manila does not stretch appreciably compared to nylon/poly.  I once set up a rig where by a bunch of Cub Scouts had fun out pulling all the adults in the Pack.   

Try buying that kind of gear at today's prices..... 

Use knots?  Ropes? When I have the opportunity to train adult Scouters, and /or Cub Scout Day Camp, I delight in teaching the jargon and use of ropes.  Running end,  standing part,  over loop, under loop, For practice and teaching purpose,  I create  a 5'  length of 3/8" sash cord (cotton, poly doesn't behave well for knot practice), dip each end in polyethylene to prevent fraying,  spray paint one half end a contrasting color (red, or blue?) for contrast when tying knots.  These lengths I pass out to the Cubs/Leaders to keep.  I sometimes see them hanging from beltloops at Scout functions . Expense?  sure, but it is worth it for the resulting pride of accomplishment.  

Tents, canopies, clothes line, "monkey" bridges,  tug o' war,  circular tug o' peace,  boating,  back/horse/mule packing (diamond hitch),  car/truck/trailer loading,  your shoe laces,,,,, 

Bungee /elastic cords are fine, but a good Trucker's Hitch, Bowline winch down will always work for securing the load on your roof rack.... 

12 hours ago, sierracharliescouter said:

Again, the scout is not getting qualified to perform CPR by getting the First Aid MB. The advisory in the MB pamphlet is informational, not a strict requirement for the MB. 

I would like to  point out that anyone who NEEDS, could possibly benefit from,  having CPR performed on their person, is PROBABLY NOT going to ask to see the possible performer's  CPR Training Certitficate..... 

IF ( I say "if")  you can find a place/organization that will sponsor CPR/AED training by the above named organizations, do so.  Arrange to collect and pay their fee, it will be worth it for the possibilities involved.  

Since I was a Scout, many moon ago, I have been taught and learned no fewer than 5 , maybe six, different techniques. From Back Pressure Arm Lift to  mouth to mouth to CPR (do you know what that stands for?).... I have only been called upon to attempt it once. Another time.....

Not a few years ago, my son (Eagle, now off on his adult own) raised rabbits in 4H. The 4H Rabbit Barn at the county fair was easily proven one of the most popular exhibits.  Because of my allergies, I could not spend too much time in the barn, but I helped out by sitting at the entrance, in the (more or less) fresh air and welcomed folks, answered questions.  One bright sunny day, I was so established, when a man came walking down the Fair Ave. , stopped in front of me, pointed at me and declared: "YOU'RE SSSCOUT ! "  I replied, " yes , that's right" (I'm  thinking, ,, who is this guy??)  He says, "YOU SAVED MY LIFE ! !"  I said,  "I'm glad !"  (? ?).  He then explains that some years ago, he had attended a CPR/AED class that I had arranged at the church our Scout Troop was sponsored by. At that class, the instructor had talked about the possible signs of heart trouble, incipient heart attack, he had recognized some of those signs, and had gone to his doctor and 4 days after the CPR class had had quadruple bypass surgery.  I stood up, we shook hands, he smiled, I invited him in to see the rabbits, and I still don't know his name.

Nor do I need to. 

I think it's time to arrange another couple of classes.... 

1 hour ago, Calion said:

Cool! How is that done?

The Patrols stand around the flag pole area and, in turn , give the cheer and (gesture) or whatever they have created. Woodbadge is the ultimate adult Scout training, and if done right, the participants "get into it" and  have fun , along with having many "aha ! "" moments.   Owl Patrol: Who, Who, Who wants to know??? Buffalo:  KATANKAH ! (with horns).... etc.... 

The Patrols are , thru the training, given projects to accomplish and should (SHOULD )  present the project with the cheer, introducing their (THEIR) Patrol.

Patrol Yells....

Ask them what the Team Coach wants from the Team...   Cohesiveness?  Esprit de Corps?  Sense of "BELONGING" ?  Same for the Scout Patrol...  

Attend Woodbadge...   Each Patrol has a name, and,,, guess what?  At Opening, a Yell/Cheer is expected.  The leadership roles may rotate, but hey,  it is Scouting. The kids grow up and move on...  That 12 year old will learn by watching the 14 year old who learns by watching what the now 18 year old did.  Your own kid will learn by watching YOUR example.  This is nothing new.....   Harry Chapin  recorded the result.  Go Google " Cat's in the Cradle"....  

At my last District Camporee, I led a US Flag Event (fold it up, answer some trivia ), and gave EXTRA CREDIT POINTS if they started off with their Patrol Cheer or yell (previously noted!)  , no surprise when many Patrols (not all ! ) came up and said "huh?" ... 

What else is there to lead to "Belonging to" a Scout Patrol?   I always marvel at the reasoning when a Troop re-assigns a Scout  from Patrol to Patrol, because of Age or Rank or Advancement, or....  The Scout needs to be in a Patrol, his/her  gang, to have fun with, make memories with, succeed in games and tasks with. How do you do that when you are in a different Patrol each year?   60 years ago (!!), I had some adopted Big Brothers I learned from, cooked bacon with, got dirty with. I still remember them with fondness (for the most part!).    Eagles screammmmm.  

All you adult leaders...   Get together with your SPL and her/his PLC....   Set the expectation,  make it fun for them....

Sort of like this ?

Sic Gloria Mundi...

Scouts in chairs, "assume LOUNGE position",  no neckers, shorts of every color,  Scout Uni shirt buttoned crooked, untucked,  might remember the Scout Promise, Conservation Pledge, Scout Law....

Flag ceremony?  How many stars on the flag?  True story from at least now sixteen  years ago:::   My son chose to join the Troop of my yooth.  They still were very active, outdoorsy Troop, he did well, served in all the Leadership positions....   Made Eagle....   One night, early in his career, I stood in the back of the hall with the other parents and watched the opening ceremony.  Scouts were attentive, uniformed well. Flags were marched in,  pledges recited, flags posted.  Something attracted my attention, and after the meeting, I went and checked the US flag. IT HAD FORTY EIGHT STARS>>    This was the flag that had been in use when I WAS A SCOUT !   And I graduated from the Troop in 1966 !    I spoke to the Scoutmaster, we had a laugh about it.   The flag was replaced with an up to date 50 star flag, there was some "education" and the 48 star one was subsequently retired appropriately at a later event.  And yes, I realized that that wasn't corrected by the Troop when I was there either. ( You do the math).

Last thursday's Troop Meeting (I am a Commisher),  they let me make a small talk about this episode. None of the present Scouts knew my son, but knew me by reputation.  NONE of them could say what the last two stars represented. Or when....  I encouraged them to find out. 

Hat... Hat.......

The grand mother and grandson are walking along the beach, enjoying the sun and surf. The child is running thru the sandy water. Suddenly , a bigger than average wave comes in, sweeps the boy off his feet and out to sea! The grandmother is also knocked off her feet. When she regains her feet, she realizes what has happened.  She is terrified !  She looks up at the sky, raises her hands in supplication!  She calls out "Please God ! He is so young ! Bring him back to me !  I beg you, return  my grandson to me ! "  Just as she covers her eyes in sadness, another wave rolls over the beach, throwing the young boy, sputtering , at the woman's feet.  She quickly picks him up, hugs him tightly, kisses him up and down, looks up to the sky, and says...."He had a hat !"

I was fortunate to have a dad who had been a timber cruiser in his younger days, and a mom who was all in favor of having me "assist"  in the kitchen when I was old enough.  Sunday mornings were my dad's time. He made the pancakes, bacon, scrambled the eggs.  Mom was a roast beef, chicken, baked potatoe and salad person.  I went off to summer camp (non Scout) once with my number one cousin, and was astounded at his lack of  eating variety. He darn near starved to death those weeks,,,,

My Troop was an outdoor Troop first and last.  We were fortunate to have some families with wooded property we could camp on and have real wood fires.  This is becoming rare, for sure, in our urbanized society.   

Camp stoves are de rigeur, for sure.  I like the idea of Patrol Cooking in someone's home first....  Even a good stew will do...  Try this Layer Cake  Stew::: 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/vh0htp2pyfrc36pnguzhz/FoodLayerCakeStew.docx?dl=0&rlkey=9e1790xu8mduexslqaiykv84t

I finally looked at this thread.   

The symptoms mentioned are visible  in other organizations. Lions clubs, Red Cross,  Rotary, etc. I have had conversations with friends about such organizations.  Many are reporting lack of interest, lack of membership. Older members age out (die !) and for some reason, younger folk  do not find the social milieu , or something,  attractive to them.  Oh, there are other groups forming, picking up, but the older, traditional groups seem to be faltering in some areas.  

What they said.....

youtube button factory skit 

Bugling....   A good Bugle can be a hundred, or so.  And then, if the Scout is already a brass musician,  a good trumpet or trombone can run a thousand or more....   

Farm Mechanics?   John Deere combine?   An antique Ford 8N ?  Naw,,,  Farm Mechanics can be applied to the family riding mower....   

Both can lead to lucrative careers....  

Hey !  What about this couple hundred hectares over here...   It doesn't get used very often by ANYBODY, only during 3 or 4 months each year...  I bet we could find a condo builder, give us a good price....

"Nobody expects the Spanish INQUISITION."

Well, what are you trying to do?   If the originators of Scouting saw it as a Christian thing, and B-P (and others)  sought to keep a spiritual component, but not a specific religion/faith,  and you seem to want to allow  (?) atheists and agnostics to still "do my best",  without acknowledging that spiritual component (or am I misreading your purpose here),  as I said:  "I am not sure what he (B-P) would make of the new movement to make Scouting un-religious.  The Scout should not be "required" to acknowledge that component?   Should she/he have to?  If others do not want to acknowledge any such component,  would that mean the other others would not have to acknowledge their belief in that component?  

I am HERE not merely because of some biological result.  There is more to my life (and yours!) than that..... 

Golly gee,  AES, I am not at all sure what's been decided here.  Way back when,  B-P had to make clear to the Church of England that the new Scout Movement was NOT going to be a prosyletizing part of the Church, altho in his writings he made clear he thought there had to be a Spiritual component in Scouting.   He was open to any faith, just not only the CoE.  I am not sure what he would make of the new movement to make Scouting un-religious.  

Yes, there are some who would like that BSA be, as you say, a "Christian/theist organization",  but that train has already left the station, as they say.  I have worked with two Synagogue sponsored Troops,  They are an example of something the opposite of the way the United Methodist Church has reacted to BSA's recent troubles. The UMC has to large extent disavowed themselves from the BSA, as has many Catholic Churches.  We have one really big Muslim Mosque here in the Wash DC area that sponsors two Troops, a Cub Pack and at least two GSUSA Troops.  We have at least one Buddhist Temple in our area that sponsors a Viet Namese predominant Troop and Cub Pack. They regularly participate in a national Viet Namese Scout Jamboree (!). The Mormons have backed away from the BSA as being not religious enough (like them)  for them.  There are evangelical churches that have created Scout-like clubs for their young people. Look up "Royal Rangers". 

Then too, I am not sure what Jesus would think about some of the folks that claim his teachings as their own, either.   Go watch "Sister Act " sometime. 

Via con dios, mi amigo.... 

I need all the help I can get. 

 If someone wishes to invoke the blessing or help from their version of God (or lack thereof) , no problem.  A gift is a gift. I accept it in the spirit presented. 

 I have been present when God, Christ, Jehovah, Buddha, Vishnu, the Great Spaghetti Monster and "none of the above " (really!)  have been asked to positively affect the outcome of an event,  and found myself only slightly shagrinned when I had to think about who or what was being mentioned.  

I know where from I have been helped.  I can only witness to my own experience.  I can only react to what training , education and experience I have been thru.  Bible (pick a translation), Torah,  Book of Mormon,  read whatever  and pick and choose what to follow.  

I have been present, holding my dad's hand when he died, and felt "something" leave the room.  I have been present, in worship and knew  when something joined us in the room.  If I succeed at something,  it hasn't been only me.  Past events, prior family, friends and....  what? ... have led me to that success.  

I need all the help I can get. 

Okay, let's get specific then.  I will start with Lutherans, only because one of my favorite people is Garrison Keillor and he ALWAYS starts with Lutherans....

https://garrisonkeillor.substack.com/p/thanks-to-lutherans-i-skipped-ballet?