SMT376Richmond KY

A question regarding my sons Eagle project. The other day my son was working on his Eagle project which is building shelves for band instruments at a local school. His plan was to get lumber and build two shelves to add to an existing shelf. He got a little lucky in that the building our Troop meets in is being torn down due to its old age and our new space lacked enough room to hold all the shelving we had in our previous building so since a Scout is Thrifty, he asked the Troop if he could use some of the shelves that were going to be demolished with the building and taken to the land fill for his project. The Troop and our CO didnt mind so he had the Scouts remove one 5/8" plywood bookcase 5ft X 3f X 2ft from the second floor of the Troops old building along with some sheets of plywood the CO gave him for his project.

He went to the school to install the bookcase and measure for the remaining planned shelf. He found that the location for the yet to be built shelf would cover an air intake for the ventilation system and thus would have to be moved to another area of the band room. The band teacher, after arranging her instruments on the new shelf discovered that the installation of the new shelf provided more storage space on the older existing shelf and sent us the following email yesterday in response (to my son asking her if she liked the new shelf and to ask her if the location he chose for the next shelf would meet her approval and to arrange for work time on the next shelf) I think what we have now is fine. I am concerned about space. The band is now getting larger and I dont want the percussionists to have less room.

At this point (2 months after receiving approval on the project) since the band director is satisfied with the project, do you think he should count up the his total hours spent thus far plus any final time spent on getting the secure doors made (I would guess he has 10 hours at most since this large cabinet was pre-built). I told him last night that since shes satisfied and concerned with the lack of space he should add this to his project planner as part of the outcome section. Will the brevity of the project be a problem at Eagle BOR even though he had planned another shelf but there were space limitations that led him to alter his plan? What do you think?

Eamon

One difficulty we have here is that teh schools have forbidden the sale of snack foods from frundraisers of any kind due to the new federal rule no snack food in school. The school won't even permit take orders (a little over the top too). My employer does not permit selling fundraisers at the office so this has never been an option for my son since he was a Tiger. There are only 4 houses on our street, 3 on the connector and 4 on the main state highway. All have said no the last two years. We attempted going into town for "blitzes" of the developments only to be told "I've already bought some" or to see Cubs or other Scouts in these areas so we are in a flooded market. The Troops total sales have been $1100.00 in 2003, $900.00 in 2004 and $700.00 2005.

The Troop does us the budget plan as someone suggested. It is made in January during the yearly planning conference with the PLC and committee. The Life Scouts simply came up with one from the MB work they did which I thought was quite impressive as the listed what was needed for summer camp and amoutn from past years sales. It was apparent that they actually learned and earned the MB which is more important that selling popcorn in my opinion.

The goal of Popcorn sale has always been to try and make enough to at least pay summer camp fees and left over amounts went to Scout accounts and equipment. The past two years we barely had enough to cover early birds and 1/3 of each Scouts summer camp fee. Last year we didn't even earn enough to come up with the $200.00 Summer camp site deposit fee required by the council in January. We waited until June to get our spot and lo and behold we did get a pretty good site.

It seems to me that council has but alot of the financial burden on the boys instead of running coporate fundraising or other activities like golf tournaments, 10K runs etc.

Actually our UC was at the meeting when the PLC presented and the boys of the Troop voted no on the sale. She told me she provided this info to the DC who still instructed to send the message to the Troop.

What the UC informed me was that the DC gave her the message directly to give to the Troop. Yes, I did think well then we'll simply sell one case but my wiser better hafe and to borrow a phrase I've read many times on these forums "she who msut be obeyed", we can simply buy the three way tin we were going to buy from the Pack from our son in the Troop so the Troop sold popcorn.

Now that being said last year the council attempted to assign expected sales levels until at the opening popcorn meeting all the Troops and Packs balked at this. It would be interesting to see what would be the response. Also, last year when we turned in left over show and sell I was told by the council person in charge "well if you weren't going to sell all of it why did you order it." He told us to take what we thought we could sell and if we could return unopened cases. We sold a 7 of 12 cases and would have sold it all if 4 days of rain and storms hadn't driven off customers and we didn't have to compete with 9 Packs and 2 Troops at the only place 18 miles away to run booth sales. Heck even the larger housing developemnts closer to town are in areas these other Packs and Troops hit too.

Fscouter

The Troop does support the council. We have attended every council event which by the way always involves an additional charge for event insurance as well as a high entry usually $20.00-$25.00 per attendee without meals by the way. Participate in FOS, and attend week long summer at the councils camp. We also camp several times during the year at the council camp and pay the site fee of $20.00 plus an entry fee of $2.00 per person so the Troop is supporting the council and the boys know this and yes this was explained to them when they made their decision. Therefore, I believe they made and informed decision. I made a point of them making thier case to the entire Troop not just a PLC decision. The commitee also was invloved in the decision as they had to pitch it to them as well. They were impressed with the amount of work the boys put into the decision as well.

Greetings fellow Scouters

Another fine year of Scouting has begun, so I thought. I was informed last night by our unit comissioner that the boys decision not to participate in popcorn sales this year is not being looked at well by council. That if they choose not to sell popcorn then any unit fundraising applicaitions the Troop submits will have a very difficult time gaining approval from council. I can only take this one way, sell popcorn or the Troops other fundraisers will not be approved. This amounts to blackmail in my opinion.

I also think that the boys in boy led Troop, arrived at a good decision based on the history of sales for the Troop over the past three years. The PLC decided that for what the Troop received for it's share didn't provide enough to run the Troop's program for the year and they had to conduct other fundraisers that they earned more money on and actually had fun doing(spaghetti dinner and car washes mainly).

Actually two of the Life Scouts used what they had learned in Personal Mgt MB to figure out budgets and then the PLC presented the idea to the Troop and all voted not to sell popcorn as it was overpriced and they had such difficulty selling a $15.00 box of popcorn that people could purchase the same product (the Life Scouts discovered that Weaver popcorn was the manufcturer of Trails-End in their research tested both discovered they are the same product) Wally world for $4.50. Also the decreasing sales over the past two years.

Now I have to go back to the boys and give them an ultimatum from the council to sell popcorn or fend for yourselves? This doesn't seem to hold to the ideas of Scouting and certainly isn't trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind. The Troop is loyal to the council as it attends nearly all council events and continues to use the council camp for summer camp despite a program that is not geared for older scouts and participates in Friends of Scouting. Now the program has worked the boys used what they have learned in Scouting and I have to go back and tell them forget it, it was a lie, Scouting isn't about the boys it's about money for the council!

Opinions please?

Thanks

NS campout is already in the Troop plan for April since some Packs in our area do not cross Webelos over till mid March. We'll receive three others from a Pack that holds it BG in March. The ones coming this month are from our CO's Pack. I orginally thought of the hike as well but have done that for the past couple of years with varying results. I'm looking for something new and innovative but the hike isn't out of the question especially since we have an 1800 acre state wildlife management area in our county close.

Will be getting 5 perhaps 8 new webelos at the end of the month. Since we are participating in the districts MB fair which is two Saturdays in Feb and 1 the first WE in March. The Troop didn't plan an outdoor activity for March. Would like to get these new Webelos out for something any ideas?

Well I recently lost a boy and a good ASM to a MB @ Troop meetings Troop. Dad had been on me since the Troop started to do this but I've stood my ground. However, I have 4 boys who are in the school band including my own. One meeting the boys wanted to discuss the MB program I thought cool they're getting it. They were looking over the poster of MB's and picking ones they were interested in by looking in the requirements book. These guys came across music and noticed that they pretty much had completed the requirements from their participation in band. They asked if they could work on music so I completed cards for them contacted council for a list of counselors, placed their names and numbers on the board and 9 months later not a one called any of the counselors. Fast forward to the end of the year when renewal of counselor sheets were turned in. These couselors did not renew so there were none for music. Since I'm a band booster too I signed up for this one and council accepted my applicaiton. Now I didn't tell the boys I was a counselor that is until the meeting before christmas when two of the band boys were looking at the MB poster (my son and his best friend) they noticed music again as did the other band members in the Troop. Then they looked at the board and noticed the names erased and said "hey you took the names off." I informed them that those people no longer counsel the music MB they had waited too long and missed the opportunity. They all said darn now we won't get that one. I asked them if they truely wanted to earn that MB and they said yes. So I issued new blue cards with my phone number on it and told them to call this counselor but not for two days as I know him and he will be attending a concert the next evening (their holiday concert). They didn't notice my number not even my son until he picked up the phone wednesday dailed the number and said "dad this number for the counselor is busy." I told him to check the number to make sure he dailed it right then he realized it was ours. I received three other calls that night. We worked on the badge after the next Troop meeting and finished it that night.

We have done similar with scholar and reading but they guys haven't completed their reports nor brought in their grades.

Hey Eagle

"We'll be talking about something we're going to do, and they'll start thumbing through the advancement book looking for a MB to apply something to. I ask them (and am now asking you), "Why does everything have to tie to a MB? Can't we just do something because it's right, good, fun or simpy needed?".

I'm not trying to grind out the MB's just trying to get some info to show the boys that sometimes there are benifits to simply doing a job and gaining experience and how if they look they have many times completed requriments without actually realizing it. Make sense?

We need a Troop sign for uor building the boys will begin planing and working on it at this weeks meeting. What MB's if any, can they use the work they put into designing and making the sign be counted for?

Reading between the lines I take these lads did not visit your troop or attend a boy scout outing with your troop for these two important AOL requirements. I'd casually ask them what interested them in your troop and not the troop/s they visited or participated in the outing with. Oh and by the way to earn AOL a boy does not have to earn all 20 activity pins just like to make Eagle a boy does not have to earn every merit badge. Do you not camp in the fall? We'd have about 6-10 nights by klondike in January in our troop.

When I was a scout(back in the EVIL scouting era of the 70's. Troop 9, Old KY Home Council) we took a trip to Indiana that included exploring and camping in a cave overnight and next day tubing down a river. I can't remember where it was though but we started the float at the base of a "BIG" dam (well for a 13yo) and floated most of the day. It was one of the best trips I took as a Scout.

Is anyone on this board connected with Troop 595, Sleeping Giant Distric, Pacific Harbors Council? One of you your Scout's families has relocated and the lad has joined out Troop so I thought we could get together and I could get his Troop master data from your Troop.

Well went to the popcorn kick off last night and quota was changed to goal. Now here's the exciting part! The Troop last year sold $986.23 gross sales (only 3 Scouts participated) DE said "this year we want everyone to obtain 20% above last year and we've indicated your goal on your review sheets in your packets." Well doing the quick math in my head while he's handing out packets. I thougth OK a couple of hundred bucks more is probably attainable. I get my packet and we finally get to the spread sheet. The goal listed for our 6 boy Troop $4000.00! Once I got off the floor and got my bearings I got out the calculator that's a 305.585% increase!!!

Sort of like the $32,000.00 Pack budget in the training DVD (we all wanted to know what that Pack did with that amount of Money). So of course others are starting to figure their chunk of the money pit and the fur starts to fly. After all as said and done the DE said "I tell you what if you don't thik you can attain the goal listed give me a goal on your popcorn sign up sheet and that's what we'll expect. So I targeted $1000.00. Hate see what the want for FOS.

Does it seem to anyone else that the sudden increase is Scout "accidents" boil down to not following training or the field, BS and SM handbook, and G2SS? I mean boys dieing for kicking logs in the river (leave no trace??), scout dieing due to falling off cliff, lost in woods, lost in wood (found thank god) all left without buddies. Adults pitching a tent under power lines? In the Navy when we had a rash of incidents we had a safety shut down to retrain and invetigate what went wrong. Perhaps BSA should do the same.

Only my son in our troop likes to do skits. Most of my boys say "there stupid". They don't sing either. So it's a real challenge to get a skit either myself of my son can do. I'd much rather the boys do it than have to rely on a leader being present but that's how it goes. This year at SC we did an enpromptu skit titled "General Custer" involving myself as Custer my son as the trusty Colonel and our ASM as the punch. Custers looking over the battle field and ask tells the Colonel "Hmm doesn't look good. Cirlce the wagons." Colonel repeats "CIRCLE THE WAGONS". A few minutes later looking through binoculars Custer says "Hmm better get the ammunition ready." Colonel repeats "PREPARE THE AMMUNITION".

Now coming across the stage is our ASM in his class a with OA sash.

Custer looks at the Colonel and says "What! Was that!" Colonel looks at Custer and say "Arrow man"

Audience didn't get it but the OA leadership did.

Gee from reading these posts I've suddenly realized that all of the boys in the Troop must have ADD! The often can't keep focused during meetings when we are doing a demo or providing instruction there usually are 4 out our 6 talking to each other staring off into space or just simply arent there. At times I've just stopped talking or doing the demo and just looked at them until they come around and I'll say "ok now the ice cream melted while you guys were in space so back to the topic."

Believe more than one have said "ICE CREAM!!" Take a look at my post on my SC experience this year!! Really challenging

The insurance question has been raised many times at round table. Here is the explanation we've been given. The $1.00 we pay at registration covers us by national. The $1.00 per head at events (even charging it for our tour permits now) is for additional liability insurance the council supposedly takes out (haven't received any paperwork with coverage etc). Now having experience with insurance companines in the medical world the insurance paid at registration is secondary to your health plan and the additional (if it exists) would be tiertary to our insurance. I know they made a little money on the Spring camporee as the Troops were able to get canoes donated so they rental fees budgeted were not used. Like I said this all left a very sour taste in several SM's at the last RT prior to camporee. Talking in the hall there were several that said they were opting out of further district or council activities due to the practice. Guess that's why council said it was going to add the $1.00 insurance fee to tour permits as well.

Well they've never set even gaols previously and I've been involved since my son was a tiger and was cubmaster 3 yrs for the Pack. The we've always sold what we could and take our "cut" and run our program from that. We generally did well in Cubs clearing about $1000-$1500 per year. For the last 3 as a Troop we've been lucky to clear $400! Only one Wally world in the nearest town and four Troops there. Nothing in the country except farms several miles apart.

We do our best fundraising with out spaghetti dinner and car washes at our CO than we ever have on popcorn.

Received and intersting call from DC last night to remind me of the popcorn kick off tomorrow night. He mentioned new plans for this year one of which was unit quotas for sales. We've never had this before and expected amount mandated by council. We've have our targeted about for our Troop budget (which we have not met in the past 3 years now). We are a small rural Troop (pop 8,000) and can't compete with those units in the nearest town (pop 26,000). Also the majority of our district is rural as well so I'm sure there will be some units drop out of popcorn given this news. Although the DC didn't mention the $$ amount of the quota just that council wished for 1 million from sales this year.

Any other council impose a sales quota on your Troops or Packs?

OK, since we seem to be discussing horror stories. Summer camp two weeks ago new scout attending. Mom had told me his history she's a state SW so adopted the lad who had been abused as a youth. As a result he has some developemental delays ("2nd grade reading level" I disagree I doubt he can read period) ADHD etc. We're packing up and she hads me his daily meds to which she informs me "make sure he takes it in the morning or your won't be able to live with him." Now being a nurse by trade I know something of ADHD and can certainly give the lad his meds on time and did. However, I'd hate to see him off meds. The poor guy was into everything, couldn't be quite if his life depended on it. Mom also gave me an additional over the counter antihisitmine saying "give this to him before bed he sometimes has accidents"

Gave the med nightly the lad denied any difficulties. On Thurday mid day his tent mate let us know "man there's something dead under our tent." Having already spoken to our special needs lad and having his assurance that all was dry in his world. I figured they had left their wet swim suits in there tents (remnants of hurricane Dennis were camped out with us as well all week) and they were starting to mildew. Since we had a brief break in the rain I asked them both to get their suits and hang them on the line. Well to cut to chase we discovered that our littl special needs lad had been wetting the bed all week and when we checked further all his clothes were equally reaking and wet too with both stool and urine.

He denied it and so I was left with the delema of a wet lad with no clothes and a potential health risk to the tent mate. I called the special needs lad mom to get her to bring some clothes or consult but guess what. She was on vacation for the week but yet couldn't attend with the lad when I asked her to assit him during the week. We took the lad to showers and made him shower and tried to find something not as soiled for him to wear. One of the ASM's took the boys clothes to the laundramat in town and bought him a sleeping bag Thursday that he managed to soil overnight as well despite my having him void prior to bed.

Upon return I spoke with mom that I really didn't appreciate not being made aware of her boys problem that put another boy at a health risk. She agreed that from now on her son would reguire his own personal tent (as I can't see using a Troop tent that others may use on camp outs that her son will soil). The CC suggested that a parent be required to attend to provide personnel care for the lad since none of the Troop leaders can or should be cleaning the lad up.

This happened in our district this spring when we were getting camporee together. Council mandated a 20% contingency fee be placed in the budget which increased the per person rate (yeah even charged Scouters the same as Scouts and they aren't doing the events). When several of our rural Troops balked at the idea and the increased cost it was brought up by one SM to forgoe camporee and just all meet at a local farm that was made available and camp together.

That's when this rule was brought to our attention. There were several "old goat" partolers that had never herd of this from council before. We were told in essence that if two Troops applied tour permits for the same place at the same time then we would be asked to pay the additional insurance fee per person and a contingency fee.

Left a bad taste is folks mouth can only 3 Troops attended camporee. I since resigned as camporee chair as I didn't feel right balancing the councils budget on the backs of the boys either. We attend if the boys vote for it but they have caught on that we can camp on the farm a lot times during the year and have as much fun with less hassels.

Sad and tragic indeed. I wonder why on earth they were pitching a 20ft tent with metal poles directly under power lines(and what was the organizers of the jambo thinking by placing a them in the situation if that was all the space available)

we teach our boys to look overhead first when selecting a site for what might fall on you. I have one Scout and ASM at the Jambo this year will be interesting to hear from them when they get back on what if any educational opportunity was taken from the tragic event.

My heart felt sympathy and prayers to the scouters and their families.

Sad and tragic indeed. I wonder why on earth they were pitching a 20ft tent with metal poles directly under power lines(and what was the organizers of the jambo thinking by placing a them in the situation if that was all the space available)

we teach our boys to look overhead first when selecting a site for what might fall on you. I have one Scout and ASM at the Jambo this year will be interesting to hear from them when they get back on what if any educational opportunity was taken from the tragic event.

My heart felt sympathy and prayers to the scouters and their families.