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Everything posted by silver-shark

  1. silver-shark

    JLT help pls

    Ozemu A sylabus for the Scoutmaster Junior Leader Training Kit that AdvanceOn lists in his post can be found at http://www.netwoods.com/JLT_Prog.html, along with several other options. The official Training Kit lists a few alternative games in addition to those listed on this site, but is basically the same otherwise. This is the troop JLT Training that our troop uses twice a year, around the time of the elections, and as far as I know, is the only Official Troop JLT program that there is. You will see many other options on this site, including something covering the 11 elements version that you mentioned. Although it may be different in your neck of the woods, all I have to do is go down to my Council Service Center and rent the video/kit that also contains a copy of the written materials. All for a $10.00 returnable fee. The only other version of a Troop JLT program that I know of that is not found on that site is the Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol, by Green Bar Bill. It can be found at http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm, but as I understand it, this is no longer official. (Darn shame, it's really good and at some point I'll probably run it anyway.)
  2. silver-shark

    Summer camp-6 scouts-how to use patrol method

    Ryon Is the APL of the patrol with the missing PL going to camp? He should be the first one to step into that position. I've always been against merging patrols for one time only situations. It makes it really difficult to maintain patrol spirit if the members are changing from time to time. As long as there are at least 2 people in a patrol I would suggest that you leave it alone. Have the APL step in as the PL or have the PL appoint someone, or have those going elect one for the week. In any case, let the patrols maintain their patrol identity. It's best in the long run.
  3. silver-shark

    More nutritious camp meals

    Great idea KS. I'll look into that one. Could also prove useful to the boys in the troop as well.
  4. silver-shark

    Pregnant Leader

    OGE, I've got to admit that the first time I read this post I was thinking the exact same thing. Then, I remembered a post a month or so ago about a female who had been a stripper prior to becoming a SM. The jist of the post as I remember it was that if she was currently a stripper that was a bad thing, but if she was a former stripper that would be O.K. That being said, I have to wonder how the BSA would handle a formerly avowed homosexual that had changed his or her ways and perhaps even got married to a member of the opposite sex. Could they be reinstated? Additionally, I'm quite certain the subject comes up when she is with the boys during down times. I wonder if the message she is giving during this time is consistent with the BSAs stance on premarrital sex, and full of I wish I hads? Also, if any of us were to kick her out now, would we let her back in after she became married. What is the mankind's statute of limitations on premarrital sex once a person has made themselves right with the Lord. Regardless of the answers that any of us may have to these questions, I personnally have to applaud how the young lady has handled this situation after the fact. It shows the true love and commitment she has to her unborn child, and life in general. I know personnaly that she has a rough road ahead of her, but with hard work determination, and love, she CAN make it.
  5. silver-shark

    Junior Leader Training

    Bob, great post and one that's near and dear to my heart. Prior to last November, our 48 year old troop had never had anyone teach or take Troop or Council JLT. This is the first thing that I set out to change after joining the troop 15 months ago. Since then another ASM and myself ran the Troop JLT last November, then prepared the sylabus for some of the trained boys to run it this past April. A very valuable learning experience for the boys. The trained boys have already formed a small training committee to write their own sylabus for the next session, following the established format but changing the games to keep it fresh. This Sunday, the first 4 boys in the history of the troop are going to White Stag, our Councils JLT Program. I am just about to burst waiting for them to get back to the troop with this new training and they haven't even left yet. I know, I know, to make it really work us adult leaders need to get through the Wood Badge of the 21st Century course before it will work the best. I.m hoping to get it yet this fall. These first 4 boys are already talking about going back next year to be trainers themselves and they haven't even taken the course yet, that's how pumped up they are about it. Additionally, we already have about 4 or 5 boys talking about going next year that are either too busy this year or are not old enough. I just love this training stuff !!!
  6. silver-shark

    How to deal with scouts

    Bob I was actually talking about the Troop JLT in my post, but also agree that Council JLT (We call ours White Stag) is essential. The points I'm referring to in the troop version are: 1. Big Boss style of leadership versus Shared Leadership. Is the PLC planning the meetings or just the SPL? Also, what would happen if you let a different patrol pick out a game from the Troop Program Resources for each meeting and ran it themselves at the appropriate time? It's not your responsibility to run every part of a meeting, merely to make sure that someone IS. In other words, DELEGATE some things to others. It'll help keep them occupied. 2. As Bob mentioned, knowing how to best utilize all of the PLs as they are all unique. Sort of like the Potato Game, or the one we used this last time (Can't remember the name) where you have some people that can see only, some people that can hear only, and some people that can touch only, all trying to find as many things in a room to list as possible for the team. 3. Do the PLs know the itinerary of the meeting prior to it starting. How did you feel in the Magazine or Chinese Numbers games when you didn't know what was going on. 4. Conflict resolution. The most inportant part in my mind being empathy, or putting yourself in the other person's shoes. 5. How about the last game, the one of trusting those around you. Make your expectations clear to your PLs prior to the meeting, and hold them to it. No excuses. Most importantly, and as Bob mentioned, you are in charge of the PLs and they are in charge of their patrols. When they lose control, and sometimes they will, do what Green Bar Bill suggests in his essay Trusting Boy Leaders, "Help them occasionally with constructive criticism. But do your coaching on the sidelines always, never in front of the Patrols. And then, when the Patrol Leader succeeds in his job, praise him for it. Commendation which is justified and not overdone is an absolute necessity. Such statements of approval should be made occasionally before the interested group. They like it, and so does the leader, as long as it is short, free from "soft soap," and genuine."
  7. silver-shark

    More nutritious camp meals

    This is a common problem with a lot of troops in my district. Even to the point where our District Boy Scout Round Table Commissioner is looking for ideas for a cookbook that lists everything, including all sides, grocery list and utensils required for a complete meal. Basically, everything for our favorite complete meal. We have already invested in something similar from our Scout Shop called Camp Cookery for Small Groups. (About $3.25 if I remember right.) Although it doesn't list out a full menu, it does have recipes for patrol sized groups including shopping list and utensils required. They include main dishes, sides, deserts, etc... The recipes vary between dutch oven meals, foil meals, and traditionally cooked meals. We got this for the younger scouts just starting to do outdoor cooking. Our adults feel if we show what can actually be done outdoors, including things like baked spaghetti, crab stuffed chicken, Shish-kabobs, breads, cupcakes and pies, etc... in dutch ovens, eventually the boys will catch on to how WELL we eat, and they have.
  8. silver-shark

    How to deal with scouts

    Ryon, A lot of what Bob is talking about can be found in the Troop Junior Leader Training Program. This is something that I feel very strongly in as a source of teaching new boy leaders how to effectively run their program. It also helps to teach even the boys that are not leaders how to follow. For boys that are constantly interrupting the training, I usually mention to the boys (that's right the boys) that are running the program to include some of the more unruly scouts as presenters of the program, to give them a feel for what you are going through when they don't pay attention. I also agree with Barry, that with boys this young in the troop, excitement and non stop activity are ESSENTIAL. When planning your meeting, don't allow any down time, and always have more prepared than can be accomplished. This will leave them yearning for more next week, and no time to cause chaos. And, as a side note... not all boys that lack attention skills are actually ADD or ADHD. Unfortunately this is something that our society now collectively lumps highly active kids into. They simply may just need the extra activity to focus on, and are acting out only when bored.(This message has been edited by silver-shark)
  9. silver-shark


    I know that the boys sometimes become frustrated when it seems that they have done some of the same things over and over, but this is what their practicing for. I'm very glad that their training paid off for them. I'll be passing this story on to our SM at the meeting on Sunday. Hopefully he'll use it as a SM Minute.(This message has been edited by silver-shark)
  10. silver-shark

    What causes racial hatred: racists or racial friction?

    I don't think that it is either. I believe that prejudice or bigotry of any type, are the result of personal insecurity. By that I mean that everyone has a basic human need to feel good about themselves. The more insecure a person is, the more they have to justify their self worth by belittling others. This comes in many forms, not just racism. It can be about another religion, another countrys beliefs and practices, or even the type of music that someone prefers to listen to. When we make ourselves feel better at the expense of others long enough, we need it to keep us going, and this is what builds into hatred. If you want to stop this hatred, all you have to do is find a way to help all of mankind feel good about who they are. Seems simple enough in theory, but Im afraid that mankind isnt very close to being ready to make this happen, and Im afraid that trying to force the issue only seems to add fuel to the fire.
  11. silver-shark

    Backpacking Stoves

    For backpacking I use the Coleman Peak 1 XPedition. It is the 2 burner model. Very little extra weight compared to the added versatility, added stability, and cooking area. It uses the Coleman Powermax canisters which run about $4.25 at Galyans if I remember right for the 10.6 oz canisters. They are just as easy as the propane stoves to use. I originally bought it on clearance for the same price of the single burner model, around $55.00 if I remember right and haven't seen another one since. I usually take an aluminum griddle with me and it works out great for pancakes or french toast in the morning, along with bacon or sausage if we're just on an overnighter.(This message has been edited by silver-shark)
  12. silver-shark

    The local option on gay membership in BSA

    Hunt You write, The real question is under what circumstances should the organization change those requirements? BSA certainly has changed since I was a kid--it has women leaders now, for example. How did that happen? Surely it happened because society's views about female roles changed--and the BSA responded to those changes. I cant remember a time when female leaders were not allowed in scouting. My mother was a Den Mother for my den as a Cub Scout in the early 70s and I have an old Weblos/Lions book from 1954 that refers to Den Mothers. Did you see women in troops or Weblos dens back then or earlier? I dont remember any, but it probably had more to do with the whole camping/outdoors thing that most women didnt profess to enjoy at that time than anything else. I dont think the BSA changed to accept women as much as women changed and started wanting to be a part of the program in other ways. You also write, "Hey, most people, including most members of BSA, no longer see gay leadership as a big deal, as long as they keep sex out of the program, and it's time for BSA to reconsider its national policy." Bob White seems to suggest that just saying this is grounds to revoke your membership--but that can't be right, can it? The fact is, once a person has avowed/stated/confirmed, or whatever word you may want to use that they are a homosexual, they have brought sex into the program. The people that can be kicked out are the ones that feel for whatever reason that they must invite the topic of sex into the program in this manner. I cant think of one single reason why the sexual preferences of homosexuals or heterosexuals would ever have any place in the scouting program, in the minds of the boys. We are to discourage thoughts and actions of a sexual nature, not bring them to the forefront. This was the policy before the court case had to further define it. You also question why we need a National Policy on this issue. Id say for monetary reasons more than anything else. It takes a lot of money to fight a special interest group. You do it once nationally and you dont have to worry about it at the troop level where the resources are certainly not there. Additionally, I see it as a clarification of the national policy that already existed.
  13. silver-shark

    Can a Registered member be denied?

    To all... Your condolensences are greatly appreciated, and will be passed on to the family. Dan I hope you got a hold of her. I see those that have left us as the lucky ones. Those of us that are left behind have the tough job still to come. This thought process is a result of MANY scars on my heart from having it broken over the years due to lost family members and friends. I've got to re-collect my thoughts and I"ll be back later. Sorry
  14. silver-shark

    Can a Registered member be denied?

    I've got to ask this question because it is the case in our troop. Does your troop need more people on the commottee? In our troop we have a SM and 11 ASMs in a troop of 49 scouts, but only 5 active committee members. Many of us ASMs have toyed with the idea of switching over to the committee, since we're doing the jobs unofficially already. Also, our Unit Commisioner passed away 2 weeks ago, so one of us will probably have to fill that position. Anyway... I'm just wondering...(This message has been edited by silver-shark)
  15. silver-shark

    Permission Slips

    Permission slips are always a great idea. I've never really thought before about the right to treat clause. We should probably have that added. The main thing we use them for is to know who is responsible for picking up the scout in case of illness or unacceptable behavior, and how they can be reached. I know that some troops put a Behavior Policy reminder on every permission slip, to be signed by the scout and their parents. That has not been that big of a deal to us in the past though so we haven't.
  16. silver-shark

    The local option on gay membership in BSA

    TJ We already had a policy prior to the court case. The issue was forced by those that want us to have homoSEXuality as a topic in scouting. We already were supposed to be steering scouts away from topics of a sexual nature. Apparently some Gay Rights Activists felt that their right to be gay outweighed this policy. Go to page 132 of your SM Handbook, and read the part about The Scoutmasters Resposibility. In it you will see that we are to steer them away from topics of a sexual nature. Additionally you will see that we let the boys "learn about sex from their parents, guardians, or others empowered by their families to guide them. No Scoutmaster should undertake to teach Scouts in any formalized manner, about sexual behavior." Whether you speak directly about it or not, once you have avowed or the boys have found out about your homosexuality, you have started a topic on sexuality that you will not be able to steer away from. Whether we like it or not, every time these boys see you after that, they will see you as a homosexual. I'm not saying that is right, but it's human nature and there is nothing we can do to stop it, anymore than there is anything you can do to become a heterosexual.. It would be the same in the case of Mr. Jones and Miss Smith tenting together for a weekend. The boys would think about that and whatever they might have done in that tent everytime they saw either one of them. Does the BSA have any strippers or any other group of sexually oriented individuals within it? Probbly. Are they avowed, thus bringing the topic up to the boys? I hope for their sake not or they should be out as well. Have some already been kicked out? I don't know. If they have, have they started a lawsuit? I doubt it or we would have heard about it, or they would be specifically mentioned in some literature or court case. Unfortunately, we have to be more specific on some policies when people try to find ways around them or bully thier way through them. I'm sure in time there will be other groups added to the list if they insist on bringing the topic of sex into the BSA program.(This message has been edited by silver-shark)
  17. silver-shark

    The local option on gay membership in BSA

    TJ You just don't get it. You have allowed yourself to be pulled off course by the Vocal Minority that in essence are calling this policy "Gay Bashing". The fact of the matter is that it is not. What it is is "Sex Bashing". Intentionally putting thoughts of a sexual nature into the boys minds is simply inappropriate, and is not now, nor has it ever been a part of the program. The BSA is fighting tremendous odds to keep sex of all kinds out of the program. This is why Mr. Jones is not allowed to tent with Miss Smith at campouts either. Contrary to others thoughts on this issue, I don't believe that the policy is compelling you or anyone else to avow their sexuality and then drop out, nor do I think that you have avowed it by posting it annonimously here. The perception of the boys relative to specific individuals is what I believe to be the paramount issue here. I believe that the Gay Rights Activists are trying to use all of those sympathetic to their cause to further their cause. The BSA is not the place for it. They are not asking for equal rights by suggesting a Troop Program Feature or Merit Badge that discusses sexual diversity. They are simply trying to get special rights and thinking only of their own cause and the feather they would get in their hat if they could convince the BSA to go along with their views. They are not looking to us to be sex educators, but Gay Rights educators. Either of these is wrong and is what the BSA finds immoral.(This message has been edited by silver-shark)
  18. silver-shark

    The local option on gay membership in BSA

    OGE I agree with what you are saying, except for the part about the meeting place. As Mr. LeRoy stated in a previous post, groups of any type can meet in the locations of the current State Run COs. That being said, he is under the misconception that COs are financially supporting the Units that they charter. This is an extremely rare case at best. Of the 10,000 units that he is against, how many do you suppose actually recieve any monetary support from that CO? Very few at best, and if they are, I'm with him on this. How about the other units that he has already helped to ride out of the program on a rail? If the units are not recieving governmental funds, I just don't see where he has a case.
  19. silver-shark

    The local option on gay membership in BSA

    Merlyn_LeRoy I gotta tell you... You really honk me off... The fact of the matter is... You don't have a CLUE as to what the BSA is all about !!! 99 and 44/100's of our units (or probably more) are not sitting back and waiting for Uncle Sam, or anyone else to pick up their tab. Our boys are out there busting their humps to provide for THEIR units. True, the Chartering Organizations are the property owners of the equipment that is owned, but it is the EXTREMELY RARE instance when they (the CO) have anything at all to do with how it is earned. I would STRONGLY urge that you become FULLY awaare of how the ENTIRE BSA program works BEFORE you pass judgement on any part of it. Fact is, if you find a unit sitting on their laurels and letting the government support them, I'll be right there along side of you trying to figure out why MY tax dollars are being spent that way, although I think that would be extremely rare at best. Based on your position, unless the federal Government is actually FUNDING a BSA unit, I don't see how you could really have a ligitimate complaint. Freedom of religion might be one thing, but YOU don't have a religion, If anything you have an unreligion, since you believe in no deity or supreme being. I'm not sure how the Constitution has anything at all to do with your position. Kris M. Schoen ASM, Troop 399 Hou Koda District Crossroads of America Council Indiana, USA God Bless America !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (This message has been edited by silver-shark)(This message has been edited by silver-shark)
  20. silver-shark

    What to do about late outing cancellations

    Our PLCs goal is to get any non-refundable deposits, for canoes or equipment, etc... in advance from the boys, and permission slips and food money 2 weeks prior to a campout. For food and supplies we normally calculate $1.00 for breakfast, $2.00 for lunch, and $5.00 for supper and evening snacks, then add about 33% for charcoal and propane for a weekend. This usually works out to $12.00 per campout for food and supplies, and is very close if they are having good meals. On the rare occasion that a scout becomes ill or has a family emergency we will return the food money IF the food has not already been purchased. We normally stay at State Parks which charge by the boy per night and we don't ask for this money until departure time.
  21. silver-shark

    Youth Protection Guidlines

    fboisseau I've got to go along with what both Mr. Rogan and Mr. White have stated. Whether required or not, that second adult is your insurance policy against the potential of slander from a child, or even being burnt at the stake as was the case at the Salem Witch Trials. This type of behavior has been around for a looooooong time. I am not insinuating that all children are capable of this behavior. I know many have been abused over the years and it's easy to think of their protection only as this policy applies, but it is also there for the protection of honest adults. Regarding you question about Weblos meetings, when my son was still in the Pack there was always the CM, the ACM, the Pack Treasurer, and the Pack Advancement Chair also available. Don't hesitate to call on any or all of them to take shifts as your second adult if needed. You are as worthy of protection as the youths that you serve. Bob, just one clarification to your post. I know what you mean by the "Patrol activities excepted" statement, as we have been in agreement over it in another thread, but some others may not. Patrol activities may be void of adult leaders completely, IF, they have a plan that has been approved by the SM in advance. But, any time that you have an adult present at this activity you must have a second one.
  22. silver-shark

    The local option on gay membership in BSA

    Hey folks, Ive got to go along with Its Trail Day on this one when he says; I don't think Scouts have changed, society has changed. I read BSAs policy as that the discussion of any type of sexuality in public does not make you a good role model. Would Dr. Ruth be allowed to be a leader? Avowed is the key. I would not be surprised if there are gay leaders, those who are nudists, who drink or gamble in the BSA. If they keep their comments and behavior to themselves who cares, if everything else is ok. What do you suppose the first thing is that pops into the mind of a boy when he finds out another boy or leader is homosexual? I guarantee you its the whole sexual/with another guy/sodomy thing. Or in the case of a scout, so that is why hes a meat gazer in the showers at camp. (Not my words, they are the scouts words themselves.) What about when he hears the words, stripper, nudist, pornography, S and M, bondage, or the dozens of other sexual fetishes? None of this should be spoken of in the scouting program. TJ asked a question earlier about any other groups being disallowed in the scouting movement. Well, if I have our troop run a raffle I could be kicked out. If I took alcohol to a campout I could be kicked out. If I tented with a female that was not my wife on a campout I could be kicked out. I cant think of a time that it would be appropriate to speak to the scouts about gambling, alcohol or sex whether it be heterosexual, homosexual, fornication, or a fetish, all of which are legal in the state that I reside in. The fact is, if I walked into my place of work tomorrow morning and mentioned to my secretary that my wife and I were into bondage, I could be fired for sexual harassment and creating a hostile working environment before I even grabbed the morning paper off the corner of her desk. But if I mentioned to a male coworker that I was gay, thus bringing the same type thoughts into his head, this should not just be acceptable but I should be supportive of his choice. This is what the gay rights activists are trying to, and slowly are accomplishing. These arent gay rights that theyre after, theyre after special rights. Why did the BSA appear to go only after the homosexual population with this policy? They didnt. Just look at any of Bob Whites posts that address the policy. The only reason that homosexuals are even mentioned is that they are the special interest group out there looking for special rights. As soon as you see the Strippers of America, or any other sexually oriented special interest group looking to speak to scouts to tell them that their lifestyle should be acceptable, Im confident you will see them singled out as well. In the mean time theyre not worth the time. Whether I believe homosexuality is moral or immoral isnt the issue at all as far as Im concerned about this policy. The real moral issue is; what is an appropriate moral topic for thought or discussion with the boys within the program. Sex of any kind is not in my opinion. Boys think about sex enough on their own. We dont need to bring their minds into the gutter. Dont ask Dont tell Dont witch hunt
  23. silver-shark

    Troop Themes

    Wasn't trying to get you on a technicallity, but trying to save folks an extra trip to the Scout Store. No games at the end of the last TPF though. You have to have the TPR for that. Unfortunately, I've been a little deeper than I care to be in both sets recently due to the scouts changing games for the last Troop JLT and the fact that we haven't had a full 4 weeks to get in a feature before the next campout in a few months, thus cramming some together. That's the only reason I was up to speed on them.
  24. silver-shark

    New Uniform Ideas

    OGE You're right. The campaign hats ARE spiffy. The summer camp we went to last year had a troop that featured all adults and the SPL in that style hat. The only thing missing was the mirrored sunglasses. Classy look.
  25. silver-shark

    Here we go again....

    Back to the topic... Sounds like the United Way is breaking it's own non-discriminataion policy by openly discrimintaing against the BSA for not changing it's moral stance by bowing to the desires of the "Vocal Minority" on this issue. Should the BSA be FORCED by ANY special interest group to change their policies, thereby giving special priveleges not normally afforded to all. I'm no expert on this particular subject, or many others that face the kids of today, but if the United Way feels that we MUST know where to send these kids, why are they not concerned about where to send a scout with a pregnant girlfriend, an alcohol or drug problem, or anything else that could come up, that could be just as, equally overwhelming to them. There's only one reason. Someone else is putting pressure on the United Way. How many social childhood problems should we have to find solutions for? Or, should we do what the BSA has told us and refer ALL of them to the parents? Don't ask, and don't tell... Seems like the way to go, but if not, it is up to the parents. We can't be expected to know everything.