silver-shark

Hi Eric, First off, as ASPL for your troop, this really isn't your problem unless you allow it to be, or you are the acting SPL for the campout. This boy has a Patrol Leader. If his PL is doing his job, there is an advanced copy of the Campout Duty Roster that is reviewed, and agreed upon, by the attending members at the last meeting before you leave. It will be fair, and everyone will have fun jobs to go along with the yucky ones. An example would be to let the boy the fetches the water start the council fire. This PL will also know the strengths and weaknesses of his boys

"I think that BSA should consider a don't ask policy when it comes to this issue because of the extreme alienation of some supporting groups." Hi boleta, The BSA has already made this the policy. You can review the press release that confirms this at: http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc&c=fs

Sorry about that Ed... I scrolled back up too far up when looking for the author to credit "If the laughs and goes along with the walk the plank scenario - fine, but if he screams and cries out of fear or embarasment, then the leadership should allow him to allow the boy take on a different consequence that acceptable to the boy." Hi kenk As soon as the boy cries out of fear, or looks for a way to publicly back out, you've added more potential for ridicule here.

"I've seen kids that have been terrified to get up in front of people. Should we just accept that they are like that and see that they never have to get in front of a group, or should we encourage them to get over it through prodding, games, etc." Good morning Ed, We already have a positive way of doing this. It is called the Advancement Method. In this, boys are recognized for the good things they have done in front of others. It's been working very well for many years now. Critisize a child privately and reward them publicly, and you have an ally for life.(This message has bee

Good morning Eamonn, From one of boleta's recent posts... "When I got mad and hit my child "for his own good," I reconciled, And then, I realized my plight... Today I taught my child to fight. When interrupted by the phone, I said, "Tell them I'm not at home." And then I thought, and had to sigh... Today, I taught my child to lie. I told the tax man what I made, Forgetting cash that I was paid; And then I blushed at this sad feat... Today I taught my child to cheat. I smugly copied a cassette, To keep me free of one more debt. But no

Hi txscoutdad, My first thought while reading this thread revolved around the the type of boy that would end up with "Suzzie". I tend to think that the mortified boy that Eamonn describes will not be caught dead with her, and that the boy that will, will be the "greedy looking for the free drink" type, or the "no guts, no glory" type that is seeking attention of any type. With that being said, my impression is that the boys seeking this attention are doing nothing different than when they go out hamming it up for a skit. During a skit, they may be welcomed warmly or not. Positively o

Without knowing all of the hows and whys of this practice... it seems very peculiar at best... and probably would be looked upon very unfavorably by the parents of a boy that compacted... and re-compacted... and re-compacted... over, and over, and over, and over.......... I don't have enough info to make an argument one way or the other.

All boys singing together, or individually (as in singled out)?

Sounds like great fun! I can hear your enthusiasm shining through, even in your typed words!

Good morning Ed, I haven't heard anyone say that a snipe hunt isn't hazing here. It is. Eddy; Hey Johnny... I found your shampoo left in the shower again. Johnny; Thanks... I'll need it again tomorrow. Toss it to me. Eddy; Not so fast dude... first you must sing me... The Barney Song... in front of everyone. Maybe there is a more positive way that your group presents this Ed, although for the life of me, I can't imagine what that would be. I have a question for you though. If singing for lost items works... why does it need to continue? By now there should be no m

"silver-shark, No negative consequences? What about a scout that decides not to go to merit badge class all week of SC. Does he still get his merit badge? Is that not a negative connsequence?" Hi txscoutdad, First, you misinterpreted my satire of FOG's satire about negative consequences. I didn't say there was no room for negative consequences. I said that there is no roon for adding negative/punishing consequences, such as singing for lost items. Secondly, not receiving the merit badge that he should have, is the consequence of his actions, much like someone breaking

"It also tells the Scout there are consequences for his forgetfulness." Hi Ed, "Nope, there aren't supposed to be negative consequences anymore." Hi FOG, No guys... it tells the Scout that you are adding negative/punishing consequences to his forgetfulness. The true consequences are that the item will be stolen, broken, or not usable when needed. Train him how to avoid THAT, and you have not only won the battle, but given him a tool to use for the rest of his life.

Good morning FOG, What you call, "changing the definition", I call further clarifying the definition as you drag it off on a tangent. The bottom line in my posts has been that there are more positive ways of handling this situation. Unfortunately, most adults do not know how to do this, because they were brought up in this type of negative-reinforcement environment, and are just continuing what they already know. Negativity breeds negativity. A positive-reinforcement approach will breed positive results. The BSA knows this, and has been practicing this for many ye

From dictionary.com Hazing "1. To harass by exacting unnecessary, disagreeable, or difficult work. 2. To harass or annoy by playing abusive or shameful tricks upon; to humiliate by practical jokes; -- used esp. of college students; as, the sophomores hazed a freshman." "unnecessary", "abusive", and "humiliate" seem to be the key words in this definition, but this ultimately leads to an emotional injury in many people's minds. Snipe Hunt = Hazing Singing for lost articles = Hazing Boxing = Not Hazing, unless you forced them to do it. Chearleaders = ...now

Hi FOG, I'll be more to the point. "So if one Scout finds it humiliating to be brought up in front of his peers to recieve his advancement recognition that is hazing and should be discontinued?" No. I believe intent is a the key word missing, along with the rest of boteta's missing paragraph, in your hypothetical question. Hazing is something that is done with the INTENT of purposefully injuring an individual, be it physically or emotionally. This is not the intent of the Advancement Method within scouting.(This message has been edited by silver-shark)

Hi FOG, Even the shyest boy knows the difference between being praised for an accomplishment, versus being punished by having to sing a baby song in front of everyone to get an object back. The latter being something that scouting has never been about. Scouting is not about what a boy CAN'T, or SHOULDN'T do, but about what he CAN, or SHOULD do, and finding positive ways to reach a boy's goals. There are no negatives in the literature presented to the boys. Scouting isn't about, "You CAN'T. or SHOULDN'T leave your things laying around." It's about, "Here's why you SHOULD ta

"There are kids who will lose stuff, no matter how hard they try and will hate the humiliation of singing to get it back. Ok, the answer some may think is learn from your past mistakes, but what about those who can't. Whose short term memory has as many holes in it as a sponge. You aren't doing anything other than providing entertainment for the troop." You really hits the nail on the head OGE. I used to be one of those guys that felt this would help the boys, but since have figured out that you seldom get a positive result from a negative-reinforcement approach like this. If we

Hi NJ I'm still trying to figure out what your problem is with the policy. When asked point blank, "When is the best time to avow anything of a sexual nature to 11 to 18 year old boys, be it heterosexual, or homosexual, or a combination of them?" your answer was, "The answer is, of course: Never. It is not appropriate for Scouters to discuss their "private" lives with the Scouts." Additionally, you seem to have a thorough grasp on the true "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" mentality of the policy. So...If the BSA isn't asking... and a scouter should "Never" reveal things of a sexua

"...there are certain kinds of immoral actions or lifestyles that are so bad that anybody who does them should not be a scout leader." Good evening Hunt, This statement is what those opposed to the BSAs Policy apparently hear, or read into what the policy is saying. This could not be further from the truth. Nowhere in the policy does it state that homosexuals cannot, or would not be good leaders. Thus, the don't ask don't tell mentality. The problem doesnt occur until their sexual preference is avowed, according to the BSA Policy. (Avowed meaning, affirmed, stated, confirm

Hi Guys, great ideas! Our winter camping trips always end up being car camping. The best way we've found to keep the boys off of the cold ground is to bring along a few bales of hay to spread between the ground cloth and the tent. No matter how much they roll, the hay stays under the boys. For myself, after a car accident a couple of years ago I had some trouble with my back, and after trying a cot and still having moderate discomfort I decided to try a sleeping pad. I had heard good things about the self inflating pads and discovered one that tapers, thicker at the head and back, ra

NWScouter, If I'm hearing what you're saying,you seem to be saying that there is some level of importance, within the scouting program, for boys to be made aware of the personal sex lives and beleifs of the Scouters, and that it might even be to their benefit. You also seem to be saying that they have already been exposed to many such things by the age of 18, (keeping in mind that most scouts fall into the 11 and 12 year old category) so what does it matter. Is this what you are saying, because this is what I continue to hear in your words?

"C'mon, silver-shark--what he means is that some religions, including some flavors of Christianity, don't believe that homosexuality is a sin, and thus they would not see the need for a ban on avowed homosexuals. Surely you understand this?" Hi Hunt, I'm not sure if you are trying to spin what I have asked, or if I have simply not made it plain enough, so here goes: 1. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that homosexuality is immoral / sinful 2. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that people that temp and entice others to "stumble" into this lifestyle are guilty of

Hi NWScouter, I would be interested in hearing more about these other religions that feel that peoples sexual orientations are the business of 11 to 18 year old children, or anyone else for that matter. You've PEAKED my curiosity.

Goodmorning Fat Old Guy. I can see how some people could have slightly differing views of how to interpret the passage that you are referring to, in Matthew 5:28. The thing is, that all one has to do is wholeheartedly repent and turn away from this way of thinking. I'm sure that this is what Jimmy Carter has done. The avowed homosexual however, is not only continuing to justify in his or her mind that their behavior is acceptable, thus continually refusing to repent, but they are attempting to drag other people down with them when they try to justify this.(This message has been

"I get the distinct impression, from the way you have asked the "question," that you asked it to make a point rather than to get an answer. But I'll answer it anyway. The answer is, of course: Never. It is not appropriate for Scouters to discuss their "private" lives with the Scouts." I'm not trying to pick on you personally NJ, but trying to make a point about the way that some folks look at things like the Scout Oath and Law. Your response to my question seems to indicate that as Scouters, (people that are to live by the same set of standards as the boys, namely the Scout Oath/P