ShutterbugMom

39 minutes ago, malraux said:

This seems like an issue the troop committee could address.

The first person I called was someone on the committee.  She felt it should be left up to the troop.

Thanks for all the replies. I did talk to our Scoutmaster last night and he is opposed to them also.  The female leader that took the phones also sends out the emails and I see she has now added a #6 rule to the list of no phones allowed whatsoever at meetings or camp outs.  It was not there before.  There has also been a rule for years of no flip flops or sandals.  I assume this to include slides and crocs.  A small group met last night to finish geocaching and 3/8 of them had on unapproved footwear....yet nothing was said.  So I feel as thought all rules need to be enforced or none.  I am firmly in disagreement with not taking their phones but I guess I am powerless to change anything.

20 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

The challenge we had with cell phones was that it limited actual social interaction.  A few years back it was did not want to see them out, use them for music in the tent, etc.  As leaders we did not want to be the cell phone police.   It was a decision that worked for us.  With no phones there were more group games, short hikes, cornhole games, and group interaction than a bunch of Scouts hunched around phones.

Basically we do not allow them at meetings or actually at the outing.  To and from yes.  If we are someplace that may be of photo value absolutely.  Scouts leave them in glove compartments of cars or in a box we have.  Had one Scout working on a PE class for school last week at summer camp, he came and got it, did his work and exercise thing, dropped it back off.  We even lent him some battery power to charge.

That sounds how I would expect it.....using it for what it is needed for.  Not for video games or social media.  (My scout does not have social media.)  But for information, scout skills and taking pictures I would be in favor of it.  

2 hours ago, David CO said:

You might check first to see if your Chartered Organization has a cell phone use policy.  

I checked on that right away and they said it was up to the Troop.

Thank you for all the replies.  I am glad to hear it isn't in the scout handbook and I am thankful most of the units let them use them responsibly.  I feel like that is the best course of action.  They are usually banned in our unit but we were told that they could take them for SeaBase.  I am very disappointed this leader took it upon herself to take them from the boys and none of the other three leaders stood up to her and told her it had already been discussed that they could have them.  So, most of the boys had NO cameras.  My son had a waterproof camera and did take pictures, but there is only one underwater selfie of him and one the captain took of him from the side.  I am so disappointed to not have more pictures to make him a photo book.  But this is an important point for me to bring up at the planning meeting, and I will also suggest they start trusting the kids with the phones according to the scout law.

I thought someone here with more knowledge than me might know.  Does it state in the Scout Handbook or the Troop Leaders handbooks that scouts may not have cell phones?  I cannot find it, but we were told by a certain leader that this is the case. 

Let me be clear that I have no problem with cell phones not being allowed if it is announced ahead of time.  I do have a problem with a leader that takes my son's phone when he didn't have it out and she made him (and the rest) dig it out of their bags.  These are all high school age boys at a high adventure camp and they had them for pictures as we were told there was no cell phone reception.  And now there are few pictures and the parents were in the dark about what was going on for nearly a week.  I would just like to know where this is the handbook for my own sanity.  Thanks!

1 hour ago, NealOnWheels said:

Sounds like my son.  He had similar symptoms after many campouts.  One year after summer camp we had to take him to the emergency room as it triggered an asthma attack.

Over time we learned to be diligent  with allergy medications before and during campouts.  We had prescription medications.  We learned to keep a distance to the fire and not to be downwind of the fire.  Scouts like to be as close to a fire as possible so this is indeed a learning process.

As far as cold weather camping if you dress properly you don't need to be near a fire.  In fact a fire can be detrimental as it can easily increase perspiration (especially those scouts who like to be as close as possible).  Dryness is a major factor in staying warm.

Wow!  Thankfully he doesn't have asthma.  That is really scary. 

It was sunny and in the 50s this weekend -- but went down to freezing overnight, so I am guessing he was near it in the evening.  He said he tried to stay away and stay upwind, but it got realy smoky once because someone put a green log on it.  They were cooking over a camp stove.

He should have been well dressed enough to not really need to be near it.  I don't think he changed clothes all weekend.  He had on his class As with a shirt underneath, plus he had a hoodie he wore a lot.  And he had a winter coat and hat for evening.  Now, whether he wore them or not.......that I cannot attest to......

 

 

2 hours ago, ItsBrian said:

I have pretty bad year round allergies - and I even work at a summer camp during the summer.

My best friend was Allegra. It’s honestly probably the way I could’ve survived. 

Does your son get allergy shots (I do), or take OTC medicine to help with symptoms?

He got allergy shots for 5 years and they really helped.  He rarely gets season allergies symptoms now -- maybe a day or two in the spring and again in the fall.  We have him use Flonase most of the year and Xyzal during peak times.

 

 

1 hour ago, Sentinel947 said:

Sounds dorky, but would a dust mask help filter out the particulates in campfire smoke that make him ill? 

Hmmm.  That might help, but he would probably not want to stand out like that. 

I am looking for suggestions for someone who may have encountered this before.  My son is a 3rd year, although he took a year off last year.  Anyway, he has very bad seasonal allergies, which we can deal with, but he is super sensitive to the campfire smoke.  He is very excited about Scouts now and wants to finish his Eagle, but needs 11 more nights of camping.  In the fall, he was a bonfire party on a Saturday and was so sick that he was out of school until Thursday.  He went to a camp out this weekend, and wasn't too bad when I picked him up in the late morning, but went rapidly downhill with a headache, sinus congestion, and fever over 100F.  Needless to say, he is home today.  I do not think the doctors believe me when I tell them this happens instantly...but it does.  Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has encountered a scout like this?  I am thinking he needs to avoid any campouts when it is cold so he can stay away from the fire.  Any other suggestions?  Thanks so much.

1 hour ago, shortridge said:

@ShutterbugMom, who is putting down men or boys?

Many aspects of the world in general nowadays seem to think that white males, including boys, are the enemy.  And I tell you I did have to report it to the school when these little middle school girls who think they are high and mighty (again just a select few) told my son they wanted to cut line (while playing a game) and he said "No, I was in line in front of you."  The girl and her friends replied "You have to let her, because you know about "Ladies First."  He said "No, I don't.  We are playing a game and we are equal." and he held his hands out to keep them from going around him and some of the little girls said "You can't do that!!  You are HARASSSING her!"  Yep.  Had to contact the teacher about that.  But there is a certain subset of people in this world that blame boys for everything now and I am very tired of it.  It has gotten to the point where boys are allowed to have NOTHING for themselves.  No organizations.  Nothing.  That's just my feeling.  And I truly know not all girls and women are like that.  Actually most are not.  But that small minority are loud and have to have their own way.

Well, we have several girls in the pack that mostly feeds our troop with several girls and moms that can't wait for their girls to join the troop so I am afraid we will basically be coed.  I am not thrilled and neither is my son.  And I am truly not anti-girl but I am sick of all the girls and their moms out to prove "anything boys can do, I can do better."   Strong girls who see themselves as equals I am all for.  Women and girls that continually put down men, I am not.  And that is what I see happening.  My youngest quit for a year over bad behavior of other boys but has just rejoined (his choice) and honestly I am not very thrilled.  I never thought I would say that having been involved with Scouts for 12 years as an adult.  (and I was a Girl Scout when I was a kid.)

Just now, scotteg83 said:

My daughters troop is charter by a different origination then the 2 local boys units, and meets at different locations.  We are a ground up unit, with myself and 1 other as having an Troop experience.  We are going to our first Klondike this weekend, and will be the only girl unit there.  I foresee in the future that we will NOT be doing joint campouts with boy troops, but will see them at Camporees and Summercamp.

That is exactly how I think it should be.

I so disagree with this.  If BSA wants to start a separate girls program, that doesn't both me at all.   And that is what they say, but that is NOT what is being done.

I am a mom of boys only, so I am sure that colors my view.  The rights of boys are slowing being eroded.  Boys are not allowed to have ANYTHING to themselves.  Girls are allowed now in Boys Scouts, football, and baseball.  But boys are expressly forbidden from volleyball, softball, Girl Scouts and Girls on the Run.  I should be clear that my boys don't want to join any of the traditionally girls groups but the rights of boys are being taken away.  At the same time, on the middle school playground, tween girls expect to be allowed to cut line and go first because "after all it IS ladies first."  I am seriously rolling my eyes here.  Obviously, this is not all the girls, but a select group that are being taught they are superior to boys.  But why in the world are boys not allowed to have any sort of boys only organization.  I am SO tired of seeing all the girl power stuff on social media, and now the BSA has joined the chant.  Boys matter also and the BSA should be the first one to champion that.

I have a general question for girls joining a troop now.  Didn't I read that girls would have separate troops with different Scout Masters, etc, although the same committee could have two different troops -- one for girls, and one for boys?  Right?  But then I read that the girls can meet at the same place and same time.  Would they be in a separate area or would they be mixed with the boys?  Just asking because I thought they would be separate, but now it seems like they won't?  Thanks!

At the last (elementary) school in which my wife taught, a teacher started a club called "Girls Run the Nation".  There was (and probably still is) a huge banner in the lobby proclaiming Girls Run the Nation, they have special activities and events just for girls in the school and there has been a push to replicate the club in other schools as well. As 50% of the school's population (boys) walk under that banner every morning, I can't help but think what message they are taking away.  Add to that the fact that the overwhelming majority of the teachers are young females that have no clue how to handle active young boys (besides pushing for a diagnosis) and I am afraid that boys have become the second class citizen of the public education system. Unfortunately, the push for "empowerment" for girls has translated into boys (in general) falling behind as less positive attention is given them.  Boy scouts has been a 'safe space' for boys to go to, where they can be themselves and develop strong character based on positive male role models.  Over the past twenty years, it really had become one of the last places to which a boy could escape the growing feminization of our culture.

 

This is exactly the issue I have with adding girls.  I have two boys, 6th and 11th grade, who have been scouts since first grade.  My youngest, for two years in elementary school, was subjected to teaching assistants / teachers who had them line up girls in one line, boys in another.  And then they said "Ladies First" and the girls ALWAYS went first -- which means they were first to activities and first back to prepare at their desks.  After this went one for awhile, he was very upset.  As he said "I thought you said we were EQUAL!" Which is what we have always taught the boys.  (Of course we teach them how to treat their friends, male and female, and good behavior for future dating / marriage, etc.) But school is their work and every is and should be equal. 

 

He notices that boys are excluded from Girls on the Run, and realizes that as a boy he cannot run until 6th grade (cross country) and then he has to try out.  Also, girls are allowed to play football and baseball, but boys are NOT allowed to play softball or volleyball.  Not that he wants to -- but boys are not allowed anyway.  He even had girls tell him that "girls were oppressed and boys have so many more opportunities."  Yes, 9 and 10 year old girls.  I think this girl empowerment movement has gone overboard to the point where boys are sometimes discriminated against and that isn't right either.

Wow.  That was really not helpful and kind of mean spirited to be honest.  I'm sorry I asked.

 

There are 4 of them moving as a patrol and they have been arguing among themselves for several weeks about the best patrol yell.  I thought if I had a few fresh ideas for them maybe they could all agree and get started on the right foot.

 

And FYI our troop patrols use their yell at the end of every meeting.

Our Webelo 2s are officially crossing over this weekend and have voted to be coyote patrol, however, they cannot come up with a short patrol cheer that everyone likes.  Any suggestions?  I've google searched and found a few funny ones that 10 year olds shouldn't use, but nothing else catchy.  Thanks!

So now our Webelos 2 have a dilemma -- we've finished the ones that changed the most, however one scout missed quite a bit.  With the new changes, however, he won't have as much to complete to catch up -- so I guess this is good, but it's kind of unfair to the ones that have completed everything?  Also, he only needs one elective which he has completed (he has two) but the others completed 3. 

 

On the flip side, they ADDED to the Duty to God in Action, so the ones completing the religious emblem, have had MORE activities added to complete it now, so that is a little frustrating.

 

But I feel like we need to either switch to the new requirements or stick with the old ones and shouldn't pick and choose?

 

I think overall the changes are good because some of them are hard to complete, but I wish it had been done at the beginning of the year or the end of this year.  It would have been much easier t manage.

Our pack is very fortunate that we get to sell drinks at the county fair.  It is incredibly easy since it is very hot and the customers flock to you.  So basically, we are asking each family to have someone spend 4 hours there to sell the drinks.  It costs them nothing but a little time, and it is like pulling teeth to get people to volunteer.   Yes, it's sweaty and loud, but easy and actually fun.  I would be the happiest cub scout leader if everyone would volunteer (the committee and den leaders volunteer, but it is super hard to get others to volunteer......but we are working on it!)

I think you're my doppelganger here We have 10 in our den as well but lots of sporadic activity. The trip we've planned for this weekend - I have 4 yes' to attend and the rest, maybes, nos or no replies (maybe almost always means no.) 3 of ours do sports, 5 do robotics. My son is one of 2 that do nothing but scouts (mainly because I can't be all over the place with another son in sports already!) I planned a huge Christmas part last year, half didn't show. And our end of they ear party last May, the three I bought awards for, for never missing a meet - didn't show. Plus some others. It was very disheartening. Just know you're not alone, it seems to be very common as they get into the higher ranks. That doesn't mean I'll give up, I'm just getting myself accustomed to it. I also requested our parents help plan events. None did - one reason I'm doing this trip Sunday. It was going to be a trip my family did, regardless, so I turned it into something I hoped everyone would enjoy. I sent out reminders last night and well, yeah.

 

Sorry, going off on my on tangent here. I hope y'all can get it going and the Woods elective sounds like a lot of fun!

I'm glad to know I am not alone in this frustration.  I guess people do what they want to do.  In relation to not showing up / not answering e-mails, I wish the other parents would realize we are 100% volunteers that use a LOT of our time, so the courtesy of a reply or saying they aren't participating anymore would be great.  I feel you pain about the planning.  Last year, I spent a BUNCH of time planning and organizing our Christmas party.  We had 14 registered and only 4 showed up!  It was so disheartening.  And I get nearly zero parent participation.  We finished all our requirements for the year two weeks ago, I've e-mailed everyone their open items and we and the cubmaster have offered to help finish anything they need finished.  Besides our son, only one has finished so far.  I guess people do what is important to them.  My children have ALWAYS done scouts and sports and we made the effort to participate in both.  It's hard, but worth it we believe.  We aren't going to have any more regular den meetings until the fall, but once school is out we will schedule some of the AOL / Webelos electives for the scouts who wish to participate (we will do it with the new Webelos 1 so that should be fun.)

 

I wanted to update on the Engineer activity.  We finished it in three weeks.  Honestly, it would be very easy for it to take 4 weeks.  The first week which was mainly discussion was a little bit dry for the boys although we tried to make it interactive.  The next two weeks we worked on the three projects we needed to build and did paper airplane design (I was surprised that one of the boys did not know how to make paper airplanes?), designed and build a catapult and designed and built a stomp rocket.  I know someone said it was boring, but our four boys that participated seemed to have a great time!  I'm glad that it went well.

My son did a major portion of this when he went to a Scout day at a museum here where we live. They built an underwater craft that moved around and picked things up and the kids lost their minds. I would check the places around your area to see if they have scout programs that would offer those things. It is all about fun for the kids to get them to do things that they think are boring.

Are you saying the kids thought it was boring?  The Engineer badge.   Okay, I must have a "strange kid" -- he loves to build things and he loved making the game.  (Of course, both my husband and I are engineers and two of his grandparents are scientists.)  He also loves to read and plays basketball and competitive travel baseball (less someone thinks I make him sit around and do educational stuff all day...LOL!)

 

I have looked around our area and so far I have found NOTHING.  I was hoping their would be a couple field trips where they could earn part of their badge there.  Not in March....maybe in the summer.  We had a science museum nearby that used to do a belt loop, so I am hoping they will do the Earth Rocks Adventure sometime.  I am also going to check with a large nursery nearby to see if they will do some  or all of Into the Woods.  And like I mentioned, I had asked for help from other parents with other careers and interests, and so far, no volunteers.

My husband is the den leader, and is an engineer, so that's why we are doing it.  We thought we could do it in March while the weather is still iffy here, and we plan on the outdoor ones after this.  We wanted to do the Into The Woods elective this month, but the trees have not even started to bud out, so we plan to do that next month.  We also have spring break this month and a pack meeting, so we have less time for meetings.

 

I should also mention we have BEGGED all the other parents to lead any elective and NOBODY has volunteered.  We have 10 in our den, but a couple of them are sporadic.  I cannot even get them to reply to let me know whether they will be at a meeting so we can plan the materials.  Now that is spring, four of our six most active boys play baseball (including ours) so the time is limited.  I don't mean this in a bad attitude way at all, but I did tons of planning and shopping for our Christmas den meeting last year and only 4 showed up.   For the first 2.5 years everyone came and participated...since then they have become really sporadic -- divorces, job loss, other activities -- stuff we cannot control.  We are really looking forward to the bears crossing over so we can do some adventures this summer jointly.

 

I think this one requirement is a little difficult for the age -- they have to draw a blueprint of what they want to make and then make it.  It should be fairly easy, but fun.  I will need to ask Google!

Yeah, those are the ideas I was trying to think of -- we just want to make sure it is something doable and fun.  The table was the suggestion in the book.  You don't think they would like a display for their future arrows?  They just watched the current Webelos 2 receive their arrows so I thought they might like that.

 

On the flip side, we did Game Design during the winter months.  Two of the scouts were TOTALLY into it (designed board games and played them).  The other two in attendance were uncontrollable, ran around, and wouldn't work on them at all.  You just never know. 

 

We definitely want to do a catapult -- but is that something they can design?  From that respect bird feeders are good, but oh my gosh -- we have made some many bird feeders and bird houses!!!  LOL!!

We would like to do the new Webelos Elective Adventure:  Engineer this spring.  Has anyone done it yet? 

 

We are wondering how we should go able letting the boys plan / design their own project and building it.  We would like to get it done in 2 den meetings (or 3).  So, does anyone have any ideas on what we could encourage them to design such that they can build it themselves with some parental help?  I think the example in the book is a table.  That would be fine, but I'm guessing not many of our parents want to go purchase the wood needed for that project.  And we are really tired of making bird feeders and bird houses.  One idea we had was constructing a display board for their future AOL.

 

Learn to follow engineering design principles by doing the following:

a. Examine a set of blueprints. Using these as a model, construct your own set of blueprints or plans to design a project. b. Using the blueprints or plans from your own design, construct your project. Your project may be something useful or something fun.

I like the previous comment about "getting out of the one and done mentality".  

 

In a successful Boy Scout Troop, there are activities scheduled every month, if not every weekend.   The Scout (and his family?) always have the option of attending or not.  Hikes, campouts, movie nights with the Patrol, etc.  it is up to the boys to plan and the adults to support.

The Webelos Den  is intended to be an introduction to this "boy led" culture ("you mean I can do that?"), but it doesn't always happen.   One three mile hike and no more?  Surely there is more than one park or neighborhood trail they can explore.   Schedule them, with input from the parents (school calendar?).   Let the boys decide if it would be fun, and let them convince the parent that it is a good thing to put on the calendar.  Find another creek to pull crawdads from, another museum/zoo/historic ship to visit. 

Get a good tree ID book for yourself, or from the library, or enlist an uncle who can talk about how trees are important (?Scout Troop?)  and point out that hickory or white ash (baseball bats!) along the trail.

 

Scout Leaders are about OPPORTUNITY, not NECESSITY.   All you can do is OFFER, and teach:  By example, and instruction.   What they miss is their lose, .  Don't blame yourself too much. 

Oh, and go to RoundTable in your District.  You will find sympathetic Scouters there, both successful (you define!) and trying hard to be.  Learn from each other, enjoy each other's company.

 

See you on the trail!

 

I totally understand about not having a "one and done" mentality.  However, it does seem ridiculous that the den leader would need to go one 3-4 hikes just to ensure everyone has had "time" to complete it, or doing the cooking, since that is a bunch of prep work.   We did the hike twice, the cooking twice, several other activities twice.   Out of our 9 boys, we have 6 I would consider "active."  Of the parents, two families really help a bunch.  However, I would like to see the other parents step and lead a bit.  Yes, we have asked.  Multiple times.  Via e-mail and straight to their face.  It's not just scouts -- the same people end up helping at scouts, at church, and at school.  In a perfect world, I wish each family would step up and lead an elective.  That would be WONDERFUL!!

Thank you all for the replies.  We are doing the cooking and hike twice and repeating several others.  Some of the ones I find to be a struggle are the ones like the fitness trail / obstacle course where they are supposed to repeat it twice and show improvement.  It is hard when there are 3/4 of them at the first meeting and 3/4 at the second, but not the same ones...then half are done, the other half are only half done.  Sigh.  We had a third day we were going to do it and it rained.  Of course, we also had some really bad behavior and one of the boys broke one of our stations (he knocked it over and jumped on it.)

 

I love scouts so much, but after 8 years of volunteering I am starting to get frustrated.  I totally understand kids missing meetings (mine have due to sports!) but when the kid misses and the mom says she "forgot" it just wears me out.  Oh well.  We will get through it!!