Sentinel947

@mrjohns2 @yknot I appreciate the context. I'm entirely unfamiliar with 4-H and how that program operates. 

1 hour ago, yknot said:

Some version of the ineligible volunteers files have been in existence since 1919. They were referenced in the 1930s. BSA long knew it was a particular target for pedophiles.  4-H is also a 100 plus year old legacy youth organization and no such files exist there. 

So we hope. Beyond leadership of the BSA not having the spine to do the right thing, what makes 4-H less likely to have abuse than the BSA did historically? While many victims who were abused by BSA volunteers were abused at BSA events, there were some that were groomed at BSA events but the actual assault took place outside of those BSA events. Not sure how 4H would have tackled that issue before "Grooming" became something adults were publicly conscious of. 

4 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

My husband is a new scoutmaster who finished his first year.  He was an ASM for 5 years prior. An event was cancelled because of schedule conflicts and lack of volunteers, only one kid was signed up. My husband received two angry texts from the former scoutmasters this morning criticiizing him for it.

I think I am just venting.   

It can be hard for folks who hang it up to watch other people in the job and not be critical. If the Scouts, their parents and the CC are happy with your husbands performance as SM, he should take the old cranky SM's opinions with a huge grain of salt. 

Better chances for positive publicity for higher office investigating the BSA rather than UofM: https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/10/us/bo-schembechler-son-robert-anderson-abuse/index.html

Similar sad story here, authority figures that knew about it, and at best turned a blind eye. Moving predators around after allegation. Like the BSA, in the Churches, or the Military, a consistent failure for those in power to protect the vulnerable. 

14 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

Trying to get on the Court's good side?

He has about as much impact on the outcome of this case as those of us posting here does. 

14 minutes ago, vol_scouter said:

Just a note, the BSA and Scouting in Great Britain were both founded in 1910 so the claim in 1905 cannot be correct.

Unless it was a claim against one of the organizations that merged into the BSA, like Dan Beard's group.

1 minute ago, 1980Scouter said:

Local council staff are leaving in record numbers. I have been watching multiple LC and I think the staff realizes the end may be near.

If my organization was facing an existential bankruptcy, I'd be looking for the exits. I have obligations, I have no intention to be the last one on a sinking ship out of loyalty to any employer. 

4 hours ago, yknot said:

Edit: I guess my point is, BSA is fighting to retain expensive HA bases but why don't we also have Urban Adventure bases in places like LA, NYC, Chicago and Atlanta for example? 

The cost to own urban core property is outrageously expensive, and Scouting is an outdoor activity? I'm all for making Scouting more accessible, but what is an "Urban Adventure Base?" What does it have to do with Scouting?

Not sure if this is the right subforum. Anybody here participating in the pilot updated course this year? https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2021/05/11/national-youth-leadership-training-updated-to-better-serve-youth-leaders/amp/

3 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Sorry. Yeah. I'm going back into it the file. Yes, I may have been premature. Part of what set me off is the DE who became SE, and who I knew well and was around our Unit A LOT, was at the center of this. So, the SE I knew, who lived in my town knew this was going on in my LC, in my District and in my town. The pattern of this incident is very familiar to what happened to me and others in the Unit and he was on notice to be aware of this pattern. He had to have been complicit. It's a bit much for me to process at the moment. Again, apologies...

You have a right to be upset and frustrated. These people took the easy path out. They choose sweeping it under the rug vs dealing with it properly. It's painful to see that, even more so when its personal and relevant to you. 

1 hour ago, yknot said:

Well, I'm a boomer with a young teen and so are most of my friends who have/had kids in the program. I don't know if we gravitated to each other because of the generational thing but here we are. Not uncommon for people to have had kids or adopted late in life or be on second marriages with younger kids. We have also been the ones running things. A good segment of Gen X'ers right below us too-- thank the Lord for you guys. Millennials? Uh, almost none. 

Millennials are age 25-40 currently and have had a hard time starting families due to cost of living and the 08 recession. I'm 27 and the youngest of my cousins. All of my cousins are older than I am, in a range of 28-34. None has a child over the age of 4 currently. I think of my extended family as a fairly average Americans as far as income, occupation and educational attainment is concerned. Granted, we're all in the younger half of the Millennial generation. 

My point, is if we see Millennial parents in Scouting, the parents and kids would most likely only be involved in Cub Scouts at this point, and that would likely be parents 30-40 years old. Not to say people don't have kids in their 20's anymore, but it's less common than it used to be.

National and Local Council should hiring freeze all but truly mission critical open jobs. Hiring somebody into a job that has a decent likelyhood of not existing post bankruptcy is not very kind. 

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

Remember, insurance policies are assets. Whatever happens and whomever is “gone after,” 84,000 claims are on the BSA’s front porch. That will be the focus of public sentiment and perception, regardless.

Also, I don’t think it’s been mentioned, but the TCC said something during the town hall that must not be missed. Namely, in all the settlement demands they have made on each of the entities/organizations, none of them were aimed to extinguish. In all cases, the demands left them sufficient resources to continue their mission, whatever it is.

This made me think of the ongoing case with the Archdiocese of Santa Fe: News Article

"Levi Monagle, an Albuquerque-based attorney who represents dozens of the victims, said he couldn't comment on the total value of the archdiocese's assets.

A settlement will be complicated, he said, "but I have every belief that we are in a position to achieve one if all the parties continue to put in the necessary blood, sweat, and tears."

"The survivors in this bankruptcy have been tremendously patient thus far — they are warriors in every sense. If they can hold out a little longer, keep fighting a little longer, then we can get this settlement done — and on very good terms," Monagle wrote in an email."

The BSA's and the local council's shouldn't necessarily roll over, sell everything and play dead. But even to me, it seems like the BSA is either intentionally dragging it's feet in this case, or it's so incompetent it cannot get it's various constituent pieces to cooperate. I'm not sure which is worse. 

2 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

I agree with her about the trade off between compensating victims vs HA bases.  

A small percentage of our scouts go to a HA base, but virtually everyone of our scouts, Cub and Scouts BSA spends some time at our local camps.

There are plenty of ways to do HA for the number of scouts who do it, reproducing summer camps and Cub day camp is much harder.

Agreed. It's unfortunate to lose the HA bases, but if that's a price to keep council camps, then it should be paid. Plenty of wonderful state and national parks and forests to do HA trips in. 

11 hours ago, ThenNow said:

In the midst of it all, I found this interesting.

https://www.lanereport.com/139744/2021/03/nky-boy-scouts-chapter-lands-1-million-for-eagle-lodge/

That's my council. It'd been in the works for a while. They've been talking about doing this since at least 2012. The timing is unfortunate, but perhaps it will increase the value of the property if/when it has to be sold. 

4 hours ago, fred8033 said:

I just don't feel this should be an end for BSA.  Perhaps, it is right BSA transforms into a family oriented program.  Teaching values in an outdoor setting with family members often there with their scouts.  Whole families now are disconnected and not comfortable in the outdoors.  I could see this being a good thing.

 

That makes Boy Scouting very much like Cub Scouting. I can't speak for other units, but my Troop has always encouraged parents to come along on outings if they want. Most often they choose not to attend, because camping outdoors all weekend either doesn't fit their schedule or isn't their thing. 

4 hours ago, fred8033 said:

• Youth sports where penetration described as inappropriate touching and couches plead ignorance ... yet later shown to have known.  AP found 17,000 over a four year period ending in 2017.   https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sexual-assaults-in-high-school-sports-minimized-as-hazing-ap/
• Universities ... Southern California with Tyndall, Michigan with Nassar, Penn State with Penn State with Sandusky
• K-12 - 10% of students subject to sexual misconduct by school employee ... https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/252484.pdf

 

That report doesn't surprise me. Getting school districts to create and follow policies is just as challenging as getting Scout Troops and Councils to follow YPT, and the BSA has the advantage of a "centralized" command. Teachers and administrators fail to report, or sometimes administrators "pass the trash" to another district, just like the Catholic Church was doing by reassigning Priests before the Priest scandal broke. Abuse in schools is a sad familiar story to abuse in other settings. 

When I was in High School 2009-2012, the procedures there were totally inadequate. I had significant time alone with teachers in their classrooms during or after school, that could have been an opportunity for abuse if those teachers were predatory. As a teenager, I wanted that time with my teachers to learn, get additional instruction. It's a shame that type of situation might go away, but clearly some teachers take advantage of that access to young people. 

The part of the report that saddens me is that it highlights the heart of the problem. A good teacher, coach or Scout leader should get to know their youth well. They should care about the life and individual success of each of the youth they work with. Unfortunately that type of close relationship is also used by predators. I suppose like the BSA is trying to do, there is going to be a future where school employees are not allowed to be alone with their students. I'm surprised it's not already the rule in schools already. 

3 hours ago, David CO said:

I don't believe it.  

 

I do. Literally every day there is a new article about teacher misconduct somewhere. With so many teachers, it's inevitable. Just like the Church or Scouting, predators tend to have multiple victims. When a predator is caught, often the rest of their child victims don't come out to accuse them, so the full scope of the abuse isn't revealed. The study is covering sexual misconduct. That could be anything from inappropriate comments, unwanted touching, or full on assault. It may be illegal or legal but unethical behavior. Think about how many different staff members, administrators, and volunteers a student interacts with in their typical k-12 career. 

On 3/27/2021 at 7:41 PM, skeptic said:

I guess what I really wonder is how many "claims" are along the lines of what I describe?  At the time, few thought anything was wrong with it; we were all males, and so that was all that was important.  I do remember sort of hiding behind my father and brother a bit much of the time, and my dad never let us go into the shower alone.  As I have collected old photos from very early scout outings, it is pretty obvious that skinny-dipping was not discouraged.   Again though, that was common then.  Boys and girls both did it, though not together, as that would have been frowned upon.  The real issue seems the contradictive nature of measuring that period in time against today.  It is not a balanced comparison.  Time will tell I guess.  Meanwhile, back to working within the parameters of the modern age.

 

I imagine very few. Sexual predators tend to have multiple victims. It starts to add up quickly in such a large organization. 

54 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Perhaps someone can speak to this issue that’s been bugging me. I have been wondering if LCs are communicating with their COs about all of this. I know many churches have filed to affirm their indemnification by the BSA, but what of those that are clueless? I’ve yet to speak with her, but my mom still attends the Catholic church that sponsored our Unit. I feel like it may be completely off their radar. I hate to ask her about it, but she is pretty connected and knows the people who handle business and whatnot, both locally and some in the Diocese. I will probably contact her in the near term. Thanks for any insight you might be able to lend. 

It's certainly not off the radar of the Diocese's lawyers, especially with the abuse cases against Catholic clergy and parishioners. There's a reasonable chance that some of the abusers involved in the Church may have been involved in Scouting. 

6 minutes ago, MattR said:

Can I give you a thank you and a laugh vote at the same time?

I took care of the laugh.

52 minutes ago, David CO said:

Ooh.  That's what we need.  A barista merit badge.  Forget the cooking merit badge.  Requirement #1.  Make your scout leaders a perfect cup of coffee first thing in the morning.  ☕

I know the first scout we should award it to. One of my NYLT quartermasters a few years ago would be the first one up to get breakfast supplies organized, and he'd put the coffee on. 

35 minutes ago, qwazse said:

@SSScout 40 million US deaths would be unlikely even in the worst case scenario. There's no need for hyperbole. A single-cause mortality of 4 in 10K is a bad year on the epidemiologist's yardstick. Someone asked me why we would treat a rate of .0005 as if it were Ebola. So, I looked it up. Over two years, Sierra Leone saw 3956 Ebola deaths in a population of 7.1 million ... 5.57 in 10K or .000557.  Some of our states are wishing they only had Ebola-like mortality.

Speaking of Ebola, there is an active outbreak in Guinea. 

Good for him to accomplish Eagle so early. On the other hand... 3k for benches? 

I agree with other comments, while above board, I don't know if it's the best experience for the Scout to zip through the advancement program so quickly. Hopefully this Scout stays involved so he can really benefit from all that being a Scout has to offer. 

Adult to adult- first name.

Me referring to an adult to a youth: Mr. or Mrs. 

Youth to me: Mr. but if they slip and refer to me by my first name, I don't care.

22 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

But it is. Just had someone in this thread indicate they believe that S.E.s should not be making more than the median salary of the people in their council.

22 hours ago, yknot said:

Can you blame them? Most people sitting in the unit, district, or even council chair don't see what an SE brings to the table. They see council workhorses serving most of their needs. 

Yes. Median Household Income in my city is 43k annually. Why would anyone take on the responsibility that comes with that sort of job for 43k?