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Posts posted by Sentinel947

  1. 3 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

    Sorry. Yeah. I'm going back into it the file. Yes, I may have been premature. Part of what set me off is the DE who became SE, and who I knew well and was around our Unit A LOT, was at the center of this. So, the SE I knew, who lived in my town knew this was going on in my LC, in my District and in my town. The pattern of this incident is very familiar to what happened to me and others in the Unit and he was on notice to be aware of this pattern. He had to have been complicit. It's a bit much for me to process at the moment. Again, apologies...

    You have a right to be upset and frustrated. These people took the easy path out. They choose sweeping it under the rug vs dealing with it properly. It's painful to see that, even more so when its personal and relevant to you. 

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  2. 1 hour ago, yknot said:

    Well, I'm a boomer with a young teen and so are most of my friends who have/had kids in the program. I don't know if we gravitated to each other because of the generational thing but here we are. Not uncommon for people to have had kids or adopted late in life or be on second marriages with younger kids. We have also been the ones running things. A good segment of Gen X'ers right below us too-- thank the Lord for you guys. Millennials? Uh, almost none. 

    Millennials are age 25-40 currently and have had a hard time starting families due to cost of living and the 08 recession. I'm 27 and the youngest of my cousins. All of my cousins are older than I am, in a range of 28-34. None has a child over the age of 4 currently. I think of my extended family as a fairly average Americans as far as income, occupation and educational attainment is concerned. Granted, we're all in the younger half of the Millennial generation. 

    My point, is if we see Millennial parents in Scouting, the parents and kids would most likely only be involved in Cub Scouts at this point, and that would likely be parents 30-40 years old. Not to say people don't have kids in their 20's anymore, but it's less common than it used to be.

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  3. 1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

    Remember, insurance policies are assets. Whatever happens and whomever is “gone after,” 84,000 claims are on the BSA’s front porch. That will be the focus of public sentiment and perception, regardless.

    Also, I don’t think it’s been mentioned, but the TCC said something during the town hall that must not be missed. Namely, in all the settlement demands they have made on each of the entities/organizations, none of them were aimed to extinguish. In all cases, the demands left them sufficient resources to continue their mission, whatever it is.

    This made me think of the ongoing case with the Archdiocese of Santa Fe: News Article

    "Levi Monagle, an Albuquerque-based attorney who represents dozens of the victims, said he couldn't comment on the total value of the archdiocese's assets.

    A settlement will be complicated, he said, "but I have every belief that we are in a position to achieve one if all the parties continue to put in the necessary blood, sweat, and tears."

    "The survivors in this bankruptcy have been tremendously patient thus far — they are warriors in every sense. If they can hold out a little longer, keep fighting a little longer, then we can get this settlement done — and on very good terms," Monagle wrote in an email."

    The BSA's and the local council's shouldn't necessarily roll over, sell everything and play dead. But even to me, it seems like the BSA is either intentionally dragging it's feet in this case, or it's so incompetent it cannot get it's various constituent pieces to cooperate. I'm not sure which is worse. 


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  4. 2 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

    I agree with her about the trade off between compensating victims vs HA bases.  

    A small percentage of our scouts go to a HA base, but virtually everyone of our scouts, Cub and Scouts BSA spends some time at our local camps.

    There are plenty of ways to do HA for the number of scouts who do it, reproducing summer camps and Cub day camp is much harder.

    Agreed. It's unfortunate to lose the HA bases, but if that's a price to keep council camps, then it should be paid. Plenty of wonderful state and national parks and forests to do HA trips in. 

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  5. 4 hours ago, fred8033 said:

    I just don't feel this should be an end for BSA.  Perhaps, it is right BSA transforms into a family oriented program.  Teaching values in an outdoor setting with family members often there with their scouts.  Whole families now are disconnected and not comfortable in the outdoors.  I could see this being a good thing.


    That makes Boy Scouting very much like Cub Scouting. I can't speak for other units, but my Troop has always encouraged parents to come along on outings if they want. Most often they choose not to attend, because camping outdoors all weekend either doesn't fit their schedule or isn't their thing. 

    4 hours ago, fred8033 said:


    That report doesn't surprise me. Getting school districts to create and follow policies is just as challenging as getting Scout Troops and Councils to follow YPT, and the BSA has the advantage of a "centralized" command. Teachers and administrators fail to report, or sometimes administrators "pass the trash" to another district, just like the Catholic Church was doing by reassigning Priests before the Priest scandal broke. Abuse in schools is a sad familiar story to abuse in other settings. 

    When I was in High School 2009-2012, the procedures there were totally inadequate. I had significant time alone with teachers in their classrooms during or after school, that could have been an opportunity for abuse if those teachers were predatory. As a teenager, I wanted that time with my teachers to learn, get additional instruction. It's a shame that type of situation might go away, but clearly some teachers take advantage of that access to young people. 

    The part of the report that saddens me is that it highlights the heart of the problem. A good teacher, coach or Scout leader should get to know their youth well. They should care about the life and individual success of each of the youth they work with. Unfortunately that type of close relationship is also used by predators. I suppose like the BSA is trying to do, there is going to be a future where school employees are not allowed to be alone with their students. I'm surprised it's not already the rule in schools already. 

    3 hours ago, David CO said:

    I don't believe it.  


    I do. Literally every day there is a new article about teacher misconduct somewhere. With so many teachers, it's inevitable. Just like the Church or Scouting, predators tend to have multiple victims. When a predator is caught, often the rest of their child victims don't come out to accuse them, so the full scope of the abuse isn't revealed. The study is covering sexual misconduct. That could be anything from inappropriate comments, unwanted touching, or full on assault. It may be illegal or legal but unethical behavior. Think about how many different staff members, administrators, and volunteers a student interacts with in their typical k-12 career. 

  6. On 3/27/2021 at 7:41 PM, skeptic said:

    I guess what I really wonder is how many "claims" are along the lines of what I describe?  At the time, few thought anything was wrong with it; we were all males, and so that was all that was important.  I do remember sort of hiding behind my father and brother a bit much of the time, and my dad never let us go into the shower alone.  As I have collected old photos from very early scout outings, it is pretty obvious that skinny-dipping was not discouraged.   Again though, that was common then.  Boys and girls both did it, though not together, as that would have been frowned upon.  The real issue seems the contradictive nature of measuring that period in time against today.  It is not a balanced comparison.  Time will tell I guess.  Meanwhile, back to working within the parameters of the modern age.


    I imagine very few. Sexual predators tend to have multiple victims. It starts to add up quickly in such a large organization. 

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  7. 54 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

    Perhaps someone can speak to this issue that’s been bugging me. I have been wondering if LCs are communicating with their COs about all of this. I know many churches have filed to affirm their indemnification by the BSA, but what of those that are clueless? I’ve yet to speak with her, but my mom still attends the Catholic church that sponsored our Unit. I feel like it may be completely off their radar. I hate to ask her about it, but she is pretty connected and knows the people who handle business and whatnot, both locally and some in the Diocese. I will probably contact her in the near term. Thanks for any insight you might be able to lend. 

    It's certainly not off the radar of the Diocese's lawyers, especially with the abuse cases against Catholic clergy and parishioners. There's a reasonable chance that some of the abusers involved in the Church may have been involved in Scouting. 

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  8. 52 minutes ago, David CO said:

    Ooh.  That's what we need.  A barista merit badge.  Forget the cooking merit badge.  Requirement #1.  Make your scout leaders a perfect cup of coffee first thing in the morning.  

    I know the first scout we should award it to. One of my NYLT quartermasters a few years ago would be the first one up to get breakfast supplies organized, and he'd put the coffee on. 

  9. 35 minutes ago, qwazse said:

    @SSScout 40 million US deaths would be unlikely even in the worst case scenario. There's no need for hyperbole. A single-cause mortality of 4 in 10K is a bad year on the epidemiologist's yardstick. Someone asked me why we would treat a rate of .0005 as if it were Ebola. So, I looked it up. Over two years, Sierra Leone saw 3956 Ebola deaths in a population of 7.1 million ... 5.57 in 10K or .000557.  Some of our states are wishing they only had Ebola-like mortality.

    Speaking of Ebola, there is an active outbreak in Guinea. 

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  10. Good for him to accomplish Eagle so early. On the other hand... 3k for benches? 

    I agree with other comments, while above board, I don't know if it's the best experience for the Scout to zip through the advancement program so quickly. Hopefully this Scout stays involved so he can really benefit from all that being a Scout has to offer. 

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  11. 22 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

    But it is. Just had someone in this thread indicate they believe that S.E.s should not be making more than the median salary of the people in their council.


    22 hours ago, yknot said:

    Can you blame them? Most people sitting in the unit, district, or even council chair don't see what an SE brings to the table. They see council workhorses serving most of their needs. 

    Yes. Median Household Income in my city is 43k annually. Why would anyone take on the responsibility that comes with that sort of job for 43k? 

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  12. 2 hours ago, yknot said:

    I know scouters like to compare BSA to the school environment but there are some very significant differences. There are cameras everywhere today in the academic setting.  No child is ever really "alone" with a teacher, coach or bus driver, because there are cameras in hallways, in classrooms, at sports facilities both inside and at the field houses, in offices, and on buses. It's a very different situation.


    There were no cameras in my High School classrooms or teachers offices. (2012 graduate) I remember having to make up assignments after school where I was totally alone with the just the teacher, and during my study hall period I'd go down to the band room to practice, and it'd just be me and the band teacher there. Maybe that's changed in the last 8 years, but I'm skeptical. Abuse does happen in Schools. There's no point pretending that it doesn't. That doesn't let the BSA off the hook. 

    Yes, child abuse does happen at School or on Scout outings, but when I've read the stories of some of the abuse in the Church, schools or in the BSA, I've been amazed at the level of access predators have been able to have to their victims outside of the environment where they met their victims. Not sure what the solutions are to preventing that, but that is likely why the BSA YPT rules are so expansive and try to dictate what interactions BSA volunteers and youth have outside of Scouting events. 

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  13. 15 hours ago, John-in-KC said:

    Sorry, I disagree. I rejected the call to be a youth again.  I earned the right to be an adult, with sweat, tears, and blood.  Innocent as I was at 14?  I think not.  That’s why I was so ticked off at “Win All You Can.”  I’d seen friends go to very bad places because of that mentality in the real world. When a 20 year old tried to tell us to be kids again, we told him to shove it where the sun doesn’t shine. Clearly, he had not had his “oh, shit” moment in life yet. 

    Operate on the basis we are adults, please. 


    That might be your experience with it, but rather than reject it, plenty of participants are unaware that the program is trying to make them role-play as Scouts. They come out of Wood Badge and think Adults are supposed to be acting they way their patrols and Troop Guides did in wood badge, when those are "youth" roles. 

    I don't disagree with you, I don't think the role-playing aspects of Wood Badge have much value. But that doesn't change that people graduate from the program and don't recognize what they experienced. 

  14. 20 hours ago, John-in-KC said:

    My personal thought is the SPL and SM need to work together in private a couple times a month. SM spouse and one of SPLs parents should be there for the adult safety issues, but the relationship between these two is what drives the entire PLC process. 

    in addition, the PLC at Wood Badge needs to be dumped. It has NO decision making ability, It’s a tasking meeting. A real PLC makes decisions. 

    Yes. This is one of many imperfect lost- in- translation aspects in Wood Badge. There are Wood Badge graduates who fail to realize as participants they are living a youth role, and so is most of the staff. NYLT's a little stronger in the way that it's more obvious who's in the staff is a Youth POR vs an Adult role. But NYLT's PLC's suffer from the same issues as Wood Badge. It'd be better to have a scripted mock PLC to demonstrate, and then stop calling the daily progress/tasking meetings "PLCs."

  15. 36 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

    This seems backwards; so he's already decided the project he wants to do and is just looking for an organization to do it for?

    How about the other way around: he contacts local organizations to see if there are needs that they have?

    I've worked with a lot of Life Scouts. I've seen it go either way: 1. The Scout has an idea, and pitches it to the beneficiary. This mostly looks like the Scout contacting the beneficiary representative and pitching the idea. 2. The Scout picks a beneficiary, the beneficiary representative and the Scout decide on a project of need. I'd say most of my Scouts (including me) went the second way, but I did have a few that went the first route. End result is the same.

    The advantage for picking the beneficiary first is they might have a budget assigned for the project, where if a Scout springs an idea on them, they would probably accept, but probably don't have it in budget. But if a Scout is really passionate about doing a particular project, it might make sense to have the idea, and then find the organization that needs it. 

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  16. 7 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

    On what do you base your argument? 

    I have to disagree. It may not be the biggest (thus most popular), but I do think it is the best. 

    Best will always be subjective. There a bunch of very worthy activities for youth to involve themselves in, and a variety of very worthy volunteer organizations for adults to provide service to. 

    I firmly believe in the Scouting program, and I back that belief with time, talent and treasure. It's the best activity I was involved with as youth, but best is going to depend on each youth and their unique interests and needs. 

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  17. On 12/10/2020 at 9:06 PM, RememberSchiff said:

    ??? Seems backwards, the renter specifies the terms of renting his/her facility.

    In a negotiation it depends who has leverage. My current rental arrangement reflects my leverage vs my landlord. 

    In the case of the boy scouts and renting, the facility owner holds most of the cards, and all the cards that matter.

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  18. 10 minutes ago, JoeBob said:

    May I ask why?  This would eliminate 1/3 of the ASMs that I've enjoyed working with.  Most trades (carpenters, plumbers, welders, electricians, etc.) farmers and enlisted military don't have or need a BA/BS.   Many of these individuals are self-employed, which allows them to schedule their time for volunteering.

    My 6 years of college were a lot of fun, but influenced about 1% of anything I did as a scouter.

    This is just part of the JD (job description) for a DE. I don't think @Cburkhardt was suggesting it become the standard for Scouting volunteers.

    The DE role has some huge challenges. From a job design perspective, it's asking people to have a variety of valuable skillsets for a low rate of pay. That's a poor business practice. The BSA will always struggle to attract people with the right background for such a multifacted role, and once it starts to develop staff to have the necessary sales, fundraising and people management skills needed to be a DE, they can leave the BSA for sales, fundraising or HR jobs that are more lucrative than being a DE. 

    Many American companies are starting to eliminate degree requirements where it makes sense. Certainly if ASM was a job, I'd see little reason to require a degree for it. 

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