SeattlePioneer

Off topic,  but I understand the latest thing proposed by Feminists is a weeks paid menstrual leave per period.

<<The basis, I'm told, of the church is for individuals to find their own God. >> 

Man creating God in his own image.

<<t I do remember touring the local newspaper and watched them set print with a lithograph machine.  We all got a chunk a print that we got to keep.  >> 

Not to be picky,  but you mean a lineotype,  which cast slugs of type to be printed on a press.

Vastly more efficient,  but the same idea Gutenberg had,  

Linotypes were MARVELOUS  Rube Goldberg machines!

<< If Cub Scouts is supposed to be kept simple and made fun, why is everyone burning out?>> 

Oh, my!  Cub Scouts is hugely complex for volunteer leaders and for parents of Cub Scouts.  And they keep ladeling on the complexity,  more and more every year.

I find it VERY BURDENSOME to coach someone through the multiple steps needed to become a registered leader,  and increasingly I just don't bother.

I agree  ---contact the COR.

Unfortunately,  few CORs have much of an idea of what they can and should be doing.

As a COR myself,  I led opposition to an ineffective District Chair and District Commissioner.  BSA rules REQUIRE that a district nominating committee recommend district leaders each year,  although this requirement is widely ignored.  However,  as a COR I did insist on a district nominating committee be appointed,  and they found new and highly effective leadership for the district.

In Scouting,  pretty much all adult leaders quit.  It mostly just a matter of how long it becomes before people get exhausted and can't do their job any more.

I began as an adult leader in 1981,  and I'm getting darned exhausted myself.  I've been shedding various jobs in recent years so I could do what was left competently.  I expect to continue that pattern some more.

Perhaps Girl Scout should begin admitting boys.  That would solve all the problems,  right?

I was the district membership chair for eight years.  I wore the Recruiter strip,  because then I always knew where to point when I was talking to Scouts about peer to peer recruiting.

Personally,  I'd encourage anyone who actively does recruiting to wear the recruiting strip  --- and I'd award it to adults who take a hand in unit recruiting.

Getting more adults involved in recruiting is FAR more important than BSA trivia about who should wear the strip.  I only wish it were a more powerful incentive than it is.

<<I for one feel that if the parents are happy and the boys are happy with this leader, leave well enough alone.  >> 

I agree.

I ran our pack's Tiger program for eight consecutive years.  The first year I led the Tiger Cub Den is two separate packs.

​With the new program,  my old methods and programs which I recycled each year were obsolete,  so I've retired from doing den and pack program,  by and large.

Just yet another example of how BSA is so hagridden with complex administrative rules and regulations that---

1) volunteers can't administer the program

2) councils can't administer the program

3) BSA national can't administer the program.

In my opinion  ---- BSA should get rid of about 90% of its rules and regulations and get back to trusting people instead.

<<1)  Didn't like camping.

2)  School/ Sports

3) Perfume

4) Car fumes

5) Job ( to support their perfume and car fume habit).

6) college/ military>> 

Girls?

<<I was going to sit in on part of a meeting once when i dropped her off at the church.  I sort of hung in the back of the room with my younger daughter to observe a few minutes.  They were doing some sort of gathering activity craft thing.... the leaders looked like I had three eyes, and they nice told me what time I could pick her up!>> 

Off the cuff,  I think I'd look any such adult in the face and ask them what they are trying to HIDE from parents and adults.  If that didn't get the point across,  I'd tell them that due to the hazards of adults molesting children in youth programs,  you want to be in a position to observe the program.

I'd be interested to see how that went over.

<<                    

<<A well done Eagle COH  can be an inspiration for young scouts.>> 

That is true.  Too bad regular Courts of Honor aren't similarly motivating.

<<I think it's up to the Scout and his family.>> 

Ummm,  here we have the tail wagging the dog....

I again suggest that the primary decision maker should be the Senior Patrol Leader and the PLC.  

<<Considering Columbus sailed under a Spanish flag, it would prove to be interesting.

With overwhelming evidence that Columbus was a Johnny-come-lately, they are now finding that the Welsh got here earlier than Columbus and the Irish (Celts) were even earlier than the whole bunch.  >> 

Yeah,  right.  Tell me about how Newton was a joke and a joker because he couldn't actually DISCOVER gravity!

This thread once again reminds me of what I have to be thankful for:

A council that is well managed and well funded.

District Executives that have consistently worked hard and with reasonable effectiveness to advance the goals and purposes of Scouting.

In the past eleven years,  we've had one DE promoted to a council fund raising position,  and later to a national BSA position.

We've also had a DE who has been promoted to Field Director in another council.

Both of those men were hard working and effective staffers.

Our current DE continues that pattern of being a hard working and effective staff member.

My heart goes out to those who aren't as lucky as those in the Chief Seattle Council.

This thread once again reminds me of what I have to be thankful for:

A council that is well managed and well funded.

District Executives that have consistently worked hard and with reasonable effectiveness to advance the goals and purposes of Scouting.

In the past eleven years,  we've had one DE promoted to a council fund raising position,  and later to a national BSA position.

We've also had a DE who has been promoted to Field Director in another council.

Both of those men were hard working and effective staffers.

Our current DE continues that pattern of being a hard working and effective staff member.

My heart goes out to those who aren't as lucky as those in the Chief Seattle Council.

LOTS of good and interesting discussion here!

Personally,  I don't think much of holding one ECOH a year when several Scouts have earned the recognition.  The BSA standard is that Scouts should be recognized ASAP after earning an award, and I agree with that.

Secondly,  I think that pretty often,  too much is made of the Eagle award.  MY preference would be to make the Eagle award as part of the next Troop COH.

I was in a troop where a Scout earned the Eagle.  His parents wanted to delay holding the ECOH untill all the family members could attend.  After continued delay,  I again proposed having the Eagle COH ASAP,  and again the father of the Scout demurred.  That was around 2006  --- the Scout NEVER has had his Eagle COH!  (NB:  the father was the Scoutmaster.)

Rather than asking the honoree what HIS preferences are,  I suggest that the right person to weigh in on this is the Senior Patrol Leader,  and perhaps the Scouts who received the Eagle at the last mass Eagle COH.  If the SPL thinks there are good reasons to change the troop's recent practice,  he ought to make his preferences known.

Further comment:  in my opinion,  it's also unreasonable to try to make a big deal of four or five ECOH as separate events each year.  That is likely to burden Scouts and Scouters.  That's why I favor the ECOH as part of the Troop's next regular COH.

To change the subject,  I feel the same way about weddings,  which are commonly WAY overproduced social events.  In my opinion,  weddings ought to be held as part of the regular Sunday church service in which all of a religious community can witness. (Not part of a religious community or church?  ----Not much of a reason for a wedding then,  is there?  Have a judge do the honors if it's worth doing at all). 

<<It seems like it's really tough for any person not in either the SM or CC positions to really have much of an effect in change.>> 

Unfortunately,  anyone who fails to do a good job seems to be able to affect change in a unit,  for the worse.

Making a positive change is frequently tougher, as you describe.

<<A lot of the issue is local around here.  Our state along with all the other PC people out there have required our school mascots to change away from Indian references.  One of our schools had Red Raider with an Indian on horseback, and had to change.  They changed the logo to a knight on horseback.  A lot of people didn't that that was enough,   Yet another local school has Vikings as their mascot and the Norwegians don't seem to be too terribly upset because after all the vikings were white people and don't count.

The real kicker was the school in our region which was located just outside of an old Indian reservation that the vast majority of students were ethnic Indians.  They too were told dump their mascot and logo.  That didn't go over very well.>> 

Heh, heh!  These are amusing stories!

When some Italians move into the area,  perhaps they will complain that COLUMBUS should be recognized,  rather than Vikings!  That would be a good donnybrook!

And it's amusing that Indians who WANT to use Indians symbols are prevented from doing so by the PC Police.

Good examples of how politics corrupts culture.

<<Regardless, this is cubs.  Aside from doing their best to do what they think is justifiable and right, who cares.  >> 

Generally speaking, I agree.

But you need to consider the affect of this on other boys in the den or pack who are working hard to complete requirements.  It can be VERY discouraging to see another boy skate and receive a coveted award that another boy has worked very hard for.  I would take that affect quite seriously.

And the affect of the boy who gets the award should be considered as well.  If he learns that poor performance leads to reward,  he might well learn that lesson too.  I would take that quite seriously as well.  

​Finally,  there is nothing wrong with not receiving the AOL.  

Fairly often I encounter adults who apologize for not earning Eagle when they were boys.  m I tell them (and I believe)  that the most important rank in Scouting is First Class.  Boys usually enter Scouting with the aim of becoming competent hikers and campers,  which is what the 1st class award symbolizes.

Eagle is fine for those who want Extra Credit.  But the real achievement in BSA should be obtained in the course of earning First class,  in my opinion.

Usually,  those adults are a lot happier after I make those comments.

A couple of years ago,  I considered reactivating my OA membership and getting involved with the district Lodge.  I attended one of their meetings,  which was all about Indian related stuff.  They are welcome to that if they like it,  but I'm not spending my time on it.

I'll bet I'm not alone with that evaluation of the program.

I guess we'll have to wait for Indian tribes to go on the warpath against OA and BSA before we get changes made.

Shucks,  don't let more or less pointless rules get in the way of Scouting!

I think the SM should wear the sash. 

OA has more problems than Scoutmasters interested in promoting the program.

<<The Only time a leader does Not have to fill out a new application to change positions is at Recharter. Since the Institution Head signs the charter, they are giving approval for all adult positions.>> 

That's the way it works in our council, too.

I've changed many an adult leader position to suit the needs of the unit,  and even had MY position changed one time when I wasn't expecting it!

<<Anyway, the district commissioner only got 20% uptake on his "mandatory FOS" participation note.>> 

I would be put off by that approach!

<<He is now wanting to set up meetings with the unit leaders. No reason given, but has basically given his schedule and expect leaders to fit in to time slots on his schedule. All slots are on a weekend where nearly every unit I know are camping (upcoming three day weekend in January).>> 

Shucks,  I would refuse to schedule such a meeting!

We discuss issues like this at the monthly Roundtable. That our last Roundtable included a review of the upcoming Klondike Derby,  Cub Scout Marble Tournament and Friends of Scouting.  Unfortunately,  not too many people attend. 

In my view the SMART DE will recognize that FOS is voluntary and that cooperation by units is voluntary.