ScoutNerd

Well, if you guys remember, more than a few months ago, I was asking for opinions on how my really bad troop ran things. So I'll bring up a point someone brought up then. But first,

Scoutfamily, I'm really sorry you guys have to go thru this, but believe me I feel for you.

In my troop when the not-so-scoutly scoutmaster had a grudge against one of the guys, it was the Scout spirit requirement that was held over their heads as unsatisfactory. The way my troop worked it, the spirt req was signed off as part of your SMC. Looking back, it would be far better for a conversation between the boy, his parents and a committee member to decide that requirement, because the Committee member could uphold some standard, the boy could defend himself and hopefully, the parents were paying attention to the kids actions in the prior months. But I digress. It seems to me that the Den Chief position meets the requirement fine, especially if the den leader and jr leaders of the troop were fine with the boy's performance. the scoutmaster really shouldn't have much of an argument, since most of the work in that position was done when he wasn't around (since I'm assuming that den meetings took place at a different time/place)

I'd say change troops, especially since your son is relatively young compared to how far along in rank he is. (I was 15 when I got life, and I still made Eagle without feeling rushed!! :-D) So with that in mind, Congrats on your accomplishments thusfar, in my opinion they appear to be well earned, and good luck in achieving the rest of your goals.

-Curtis H. :-D

Phil. 3:8-9

Oh, sure, :-D

that's what I remember of a talk/seminar at NCS this summer. I was there attending the Camp Commish track, and we talked to the other area trainers to learn something about the camp's interworkings, and how each area (aquatics, nature, shooting sports etc) complimented each other. Anyway, long story to say that when we were talking to the Aquatics Instrustors Trainer those are what I remember of the figures he quoted during his talk on water safety rules that Commisioners might have to explain to adult leaders. I figure as long as I remember them correctly they can be reasonably trusted, since the guy I heard them from was the Southern Region's head Aquatics guy.

Well off to class, don't have too much fun while I'm gone :-D

-Curtis

"Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus."

I know the water ones off hand... there was a good number of years (not sure how many, but as many as ten) when the water related deaths were down to 0-1, then four all at the same time a few years ago, and last year I don't think there was more than 1. This is just off the top of my head so feel free to correct me where I'm mistaken

-Curtis

"Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus."

hi all, it's good to be back, the summer was long and hard, and I'm actually glad to be back at school (that's how hard it was, jk :-D)

The Utah safety topic by fgoodwin got me thinking, and wondering if we could make it a bit broader (not to steal his thunder but...)

What do you guys think of all the erm...troubles the BSA had over the summer? Between deaths at Jambo, drownings here in NM and other places, a few lightning strike deaths, and a lost scout in Utah, we have to admit the BSA didn't have a very successful summer. What do you guys think? Is these things the program needs to work at, or are individuals not following the rules and/or common sense enough?

I know this is probably a touchy subject for a lot of people. I'm sorry if it strikes too much of a nerve and I hope no one misunderstands my motives here. I'm still completely for the program, I ask only wondering if we need to work to improve, or rather what we should work to improve.

The incident with details I'm most familiar with is the NM rafting death. Since my camp is in the immediate area, and we know the troop, and I was the SSD/SA instructor, I had to be familiar with it. In that case there was nothing anyone really did wrong. A freak current pulled the kid out of the boat, and the PFD was torn off (it was good condition before they embarked). It can't be called anything more than a freak accident, but still is there anything that the boy scouts can or should do about any of the incidents of the summer? or is there anything the boy scouts have already started putting into action? (I'll admit, I've purposely kept myself out of the scout loop for about a month, just to recover from a tough summer, but I'm back now)

Anybody know/think anything about any of this?

-Curtis in NM

"Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus."

Well, if it makes you all feel any better about it...

I was suspended back in Middle School for accidentally bring a pocket knife. It was the monday after a campout, and I hadn't learned the value of using something besides your school backpack for a camping day pack. The knife was a small dinky one that couldn't cut a finger with a sawing motion :-D and I had forgotten to take it out of the small pocket at the front that morning before school. A friend saw it in there and "jokingly" made a big deal at lunch calling out "he's got a knife" at the same time the asst. principle was walking by. I spent the rest of the day in the office, and my mom had to come pick me up, and I got from that day thru christmas break (two weeks) for a homework filled vacation (how I choose to see it in retrospect :-D). So don't think that being a scout can't get you in trouble :-P

I actually fully realize it's my stupid fault, but still it's kinda funny to mention :-D

They admitted that they only suspended me because they had a no exceptions rule. They later (about a year later) started saying at the beginning of every year that "if you ever accidently bring something to school, as soon as you realize it, come to the office (before you're discovered :-D), and we'll keep it for you, so you don't have to get in trouble". So perhaps a good plan of attack for such a problem as the article talked about would be telling our kids to do such a thing (go to the office with it prematurely). I bet it could have been different.

Also about the "not realizing they were there". I don't think that was the issue, the article didn't say anything to that effect. In my experience 11 yr olds typically don't care what's in their pockets, so it probably just didn't matter, and since they were nails, he didn't think it would be a problem (when in fact it turned into one)

well that's my (slightly more than) two cents :-D

-Curtis :-D

To add just a bit on my previous point, in thinking about eating healty on campouts.

There are two ways you can think about this...

1. we (the adults) must lead by example in our eating habits infront of the scouts

or

2. the campout is just a weekend get away with the purpose of getting out of the ruts of the real world. (after all, 2.5 days worth of meals every once in a while doesn't really effect the habits instilled by parents in their kids does it? I don't think it ever did for me, and we had some REALLY strange and no doubt unhealthy concoctions :-D, My eating habits today are in the realm of what most would call healthy, inspite of the weekend-long dietary adventures as a boy.)

One camporee I remeber attending as a scout was first aid based as well. Adult leaders from every troop would gather for a meeting the night before (friday after everyone is settled) and each be given an ailment on which to "interactively pop quiz" every patrol they could find on. They would find patrols at the competition the next day (in the midst of walking around the camp between competition sites) and quietly tap one of the guys at the back of the group on the sholder, and whisper in his ear what he was just inflicted with. Then this scout would have to know what the symptoms of the ailment are like, or if it was simple, he'd have to make a big deal of it ("I think i broke my arm guys!") that kinda thing. and the patrol would have to use resouces they had on them to do first aid.

Somehow at this camporee, there was a whole bunch of left over experienced scouts, so just for fun, we formed a patrol to compete with. (I don't remember, but I don't think we would've let ourselves be scored, becuase we realized it would've been unbalanced.) This was a whole lot of fun for us... one of the ailments one guy was inflicted with was a splinter. and we got to make a big deal of it, all while still doing things properly (if not a bit...over the top) :-D "This man has a splinter!!! Treat him for shock!!!!" :-D

-Curtis :-D

Hi all,

I need help from someone familiar with the Dallas area.

I'm going to a NCS session starting on May 21st at Camp Cherokee. To get there, I'm flying in because of time restrictions. I can arrive at the Dallas-Lovefield airport either 8pm the evening before, or noon the day of. I'm not sure who's going from my area (by car) and could pick me up and take me the rest of the way (about 100 mi), and going home shouldn't be a problem as long as anyone from my camp goes to the session (which should happen but it's still really unorganized ;-D) so I got a few questions for you Dallas dwellers :-D

--Is there anyone going to the same NCS session that lives in Dallas and wouldn't mind picking me up at the airport? if so, please personal message me. I'm not sure if I'll need it, but knowing an option at all is there would be a great comfort right now :-D

--can anyone think of another easy, extremely cheap way to get from the Lovefield airport to Camp Cherokee? (I'm thinking free is about as much as I can afford :-D)

--Does anyone know some contact info for the camp so I could call them up and ask these same questions?

any help would be most appreicated. go ahead and email me directly... *hcurtis*@*nmt*.edu (just take out the *'s) ;-D

thanks again!! :-D

-Curtis :-D

Hi all,

Do you remember that song/skit "I love to be a Boy scout" there's one (of many) verse that goes...

I love to be a Boy Scout, there's nothing I'd rather be, but if I weren't a Boy Scout... A scoutmaster I would be... "Do this, Do that, boy I hope I'm not to fat..."

I don't mean to be rude, or cruel here, but I do think that it's a sign that boys don't think about these kind of things as deeply as we old folks do (being 21, I'm gonna try comming at this from both sides- youth and adult - so bare with me) :-D.

My fat scoutmaster didn't claim to be the best example of physical fitness, nor did ANYONE expect him to be. None of us got an unspoken message from him saying 'it's okay to be fat, it's ok to not be physically fit'. He was (and is still) an awesome man that I admire greatly and he was the best example in the entire troop of MANY other virtues.

None of us is perfect. Some adults may accidently let certain 4 letter words slip in front of the scouts, is that so much different than an obese adult? it's still unintentionally brocasting a message countrary to the sought after virtues...

but I think my point is, the boys do understand what's right, wrong, heathly and harmful. If they're in the boy scouts chances are they know what falls in those categories. I might not have heard "stay fit" from my obese scoutmaster, but believe me, I heard it plenty of other places. If an adult isn't the best example in one area, but he's still as caring, scoutly, and upright as all the other adults, then I'm sure the boys can understand the idea of someone not having all of their act together.

I think we're forgetting to give the boys credit in thinking thru these things themselves (dare I say, maybe they actually could have a bit of grace and understanding in such matters) :-D

The guys from my troop all turned out more than alright, physically and in most every other aspect of life, I'm sure my scoutmaster had a huge hand in it (all of it!!!), and I wouldn't have had it any other way :-D

My point here is, perhaps we're majoring on the minors... perhaps we're putting too much stock in things that don't matter in the long run... I mean I don't want bad examples around any of the youth I work with, but if they are there (and not intending harm by their example) and the boys know how things should be (perhaps even if they're the rebels, they still know... :-D), then the boys still get the point. Isn't that a lesson we learn really early in life? A bad example (espeically a well meaning one) can be much more intructive than a good.

have a wonderful day of rest folks,g'night ;-D

Curtis :-D

Rmns 12:1-2

In a bit of irony, I've never gone to a boy scout camp for a summer session. My troop always did our own week long camp every summer.. but I have worked at one for the past 7 summers.

Camp Frank Rand, NM

we might not have the newest facilities, but our program is tried and true, and the staff have proven themselves the best every year!!! Seriously, if you like adventure, come to Frank Rand in mid-july!! 3 years ago we had a huge flood, and the year after that we actually evacuted beacause a forest fire was too close. Each time though, the staff proved their mettle. (we set up "camp" in the high school gym of the nearest town and did everything we could to complete everything, even going to a climbing gym and a local pool) But hey, I might be just a little biased :-D

-Curtis :-D

I'd like to throw in a quick two cents...

My first (and by far the best of the 3 I've been under) scoutmaster was... shall we say well rounded and pretty round himself. In spite of, and sometimes because of his extra mass, (not too much but certainly noticeable) he could still keep up with (and sometiems out do) a bunch of the retired military folks, (backpacking is the example that comes to mind). He was certainly a man I could respect, and want to be like (and by this I mean, his character)

In my experience of 6-7 summers working at a scout camp, i've actually noticed a bit of a trend. A large number of the REALLY good scoutmasters (the boys love him, and he is the definition of patience, leadership and a lot of other scoutly qualities) have been what you might call overweight (often with the extra feature of a big long grey beard :-D). Whenever we (the staff) see one of those scoutmasters comming, the (positive) stereotype makes up lean toward enjoying that troop's stay at camp more. I love big fat, grey bearded scoutmasters (though my first one had infact a red curly mustache) ;-D

-Curtis

Funny, slightly related story...

the scout camp where i've worked for 6-7 summers is really close to the famous "Santa Fe Opera" and a few friends (both girls, and only friends) drove up to camp to pick me up, and see a perfomance on one of my nights off. So we decide to get dressed up... the girls bring formal dresses, but I feel like it would be okay to just wear a class a uniform (venture green). Over the course of the night, we pulled up to an ATM and I got out, leaving the ladies in the car. And the way they tell it, they thought I looked rather dashing, and decided to honk at me because of it :-D

who needs pickup lines when you're a clean cut, uniform wearing gentleman (and I think the gentleman part is rather important here) :-D

-Curtis :-D

Ok, Merlyn and Ed, I'm about to ask you to sit in opposite corners so we can work this out politely! No offense meant to either of you, but discuss, don't attack. Anyway...

Merlyn, maybe not the building, but the supreme court (and the judicial system in general) does have more than a few references to God. "whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you ___" (fill in the blank) Unless it's just been too long since I've been in a courtroom and the don't actually say that anymore (pity if they didn't). Acutally to bring back a random point I made a few pages earlier, there are references to God in other forms from the government too, such as currency. Even on nickels and pennies, they somehow find room to squeeze in "in God we trust". I'm definetly not telling you, the ACLU or anyone else to attack the government for this, merlyn, but I would like to hear your opinion.

-Curtis :-D

Prairie,

We'll let him answer for himself, but I believe by the term "attacking" Scheinling didn't mean legally... attacking a organization's support structure might not be attacking the organization directly, but no one would disagree, that it's making it really tough on the organization...

anyway... I still got a few good hours of the night to keep writing final project reports... G'night fellas

-Curtis :-D

Pack I know what you mean, I'm in the middle of finals, reports, projects and presentations here at school, and I've been trying to keep up, but it's flying by really quick. a few comments though...

>"The Worldnet Daily reported an increasing number of >California PUBLIC school students must attend an intensive 3 >week course on Islam. The course mandates that 7th graders >learn the tenets of Islam, study important figures of faith, >wear a robe, adopt a muslim name, and stage their own jihad. >They must also learn many verses of the Koran."

>

>ACLU doesn't need to do anything about this, because it's >baloney. For more info, go to:

>

>http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/byronislam.htm

Well, I checked that website out and here's something they wrote under the heading of "the truth"

"Peggy Green, the Superintendent of the Byron Union School district says that the school is merely reflecting the California guidelines for seventh grade and that the students are learning about Islam in the same way that they learn about Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and other major religions. She says that individual teachers will augment the curriculum with various activities and games, including dressing-up and role playing, in order to stimulate class discussion. "

I'm not sure about you folks, but I was taught nearly nothing about any of those other religions in school, "so just as much" would actually mean "nothing". So the idea that kids are infact encouraged to do this (perhaps the "required" statement was media inflection, but still...) is quite scary. I really don't think I'd want any hypothetical kids of mine to be taught only one religion in school, especially in such a role playing way.

It certainly seems like an issue to me...

Then there's the thing someone said about "only minority religions can do things in public anymore" and then it was shot down by someone (I"m kinda pushed for time, so I didn't want to take the time to look it up). An interesting thought camp to mind, why is it referred to as seperation of "Church" and state... why not leave it at "religion" and state... does that signal flags in anyone else's mind?

Then about the ACLU (to be on topic and all) Another good thing they might want to go after is the "In God we Trust" on every single peice of currency. And then they could rewrite the Declaration of Independace to take out the part about the "[People] are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights"...

anyway... just more to ponder... nose back to the grindstone... see ya by the end of the week if I'm still alive :-D

-Curtis :-D

At my scout camp (in NM) we have one camp week (usually in mid July) when all the LDS troops in the council come up for the same week. For that week, the program is shifted just slightly. Instead of getting to camp on sunday afternoon (like every other troop) the LDS troops get there first thing monday morning. Since we try and work our merit badge classes to finish up in 4 days anyway, we simply have a merit badge session instead of a time when scouts can come and make up requirements they might have missed (like swimming laps at the pool) The campfire lay out is also a bit different, but it works out... (and as a personal note, all the staff are thankful it only happens one week out of the summer, because of all the differences we have to deal with) but all the differences happen at the same time, so only one accomodation instead of individual troops being accomodated for

-Curtis :-D

The "holding sway in courts" I was referring to was based on a lot of their statements on the website "the ACLU tells supreme court (*insert generic ACLU Statement here*)" I realize these were all on their website, and therefore they could have just been patting themselves on the back (over and over and over), but still, for only being 400,000 "members" they would certainly appear to have a highly regarded opinion. If they are the primary ones to bring charges against the Boy Scouts, and people (particularly the courts) take them seriously (evening if they do neglect the fact that we're a private organization) they must have some pretty powerful voices, unless I'm sadly (completely) misinformed as to how the American justice system works.

Update: I checked into it a bit more, and they don't get gov. funding.

And thanks, I did find the feedback form (I looked there last night, I just didn't have the patience left to keep looking)

In regards to the morality thing I asked, (I'm trying not to bring the "God Factor" into things here so...) For the sake of an interesting discussion, what do you guys think? Can morality even be considered as a valid point of discussion on this topic?

One last question (I thought of all these, and just forgot them when I went to write them down)...

What gives the ACLU such a sway with the courts? Why is their opinion regarded so highly?

One more thing I forgot to ask...

Does anyone know how to email an opinion (well informed and polite, naturally) to them? They had plenty to suggest that it was possible but all I could find on the website were rabbit trails leading in circles.

Well, some of you elders have spoken harshly about the ACLU, and I wasn't all that inclined to simply take your word for it, and wanted to at least try and give them the benefit of the doubt, but that was a very tough thing to ask of myself evidently. (things like this have a funny way of backfiring don't they?) I went to their website to browse around abit about Scout issues, and more than a few other things that they take positions on that are of interest to me (intelligent design, religious freedom, etc.) And I was frankly disgusted with what I saw (sorry for not trusting you fellas the first time around). This led me to be interested in finding out some things that their website does a very clever job of making you believe they tell you, but never actually letting you know, for instance...

What is the history/basis to the ACLU? The only thing they say is "The American Civil Liberties Union was founded in 1920 and is our nations guardian of liberty" and variations of that the entire way through. Why was it founded?

Does it get government funding do produce such... (I don't know a polite adjective for it) results?

What basis do they have for claiming themselves "gaurdians of liberty"?

and on a more personal note... where do you think they define a limit between gaurding liberty, and tearing down morality?

Any of you elder types more informed from working with (maybe more against) it for more years than this lowly college student?

-Curtis

I just read wing nuts... and I (being an engineer myself) had to add the second part (I'm trying not to dominate postings I'm sorry :-D)...

1. What do you get when you cross and rooster and snake?

(rooster)(Snake)*sin(theta)

2. What do you get when you cross a rooster and a mountain climber?

Nothing... you can't cross a scalar :-D

If you want it explained ask one of those guys that actually knows what all the functions of their graphing calculator do :-D

-Curtis :-D

These are pretty much all great, I just copied them from an email and removed ones that I didn't really want to put my name to (if you're wondering about the numbers) :-D

1. A bicycle can't stand on its own because it is two-tired.

2. What's the definition of a will? (It's a dead giveaway).

3. Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

4. A backwards poet writes inverse.

6. She had a boyfriend with a wooden leg, but broke it off.

7. A chicken crossing the road is poultry in motion.

8. If you don't pay your exorcist you get repossessed.

9. With her marriage she got a new name and a dress.

10. Show me a piano falling down a mineshaft and I'll show you A-flat minor.

11. When a clock is hungry it goes back four seconds.

12. The man who fell into the upholstery machine is fully recovered.

13. A grenade thrown into a kitchen in France would result in Linoleum Blownapart.

14. You feel stuck with your debt if you can't budge it.

16. He often broke into song because he couldn't find the key.

17. Every calendar's days are numbered.

19. A boiled egg in the morning is hard to beat.

20. He had a photographic memory that was never developed.

21. A plateau and imitation are both high forms of flattery.

22. The short fortune-teller who escaped from prison was a small medium at large.

23. Those who get too big for their britches will be exposed in the end.

25. Those who jump off a Paris bridge are in Seine.

26. When an actress saw her first strands of gray hair she thought she'd dye.

28. Santa's helpers are subordinate clauses.

29. Acupuncture is a jab well done.

30. Marathon runners with bad footwear suffer the agony of defeat.

hope that wasn't too painful :-D

by the way, I don't remember who posted it, but the Ghandi Joke was AWESOME!!!!

-Curtis :-D

A man looks over in to his neighbors' yard to see their son digging a rather large hole. The man calls the boy over... "hey Jimmy, what are you digging that big hole for?" the boy answers "my goldfish just died and I'm going to bury it". The man replies "Well that's really sad, but isn't that a big hole for just a goldfish?" Jimmy answers "not since your cat ate it"

I"m not sure if he was ever a scout, but I'm thinking Bush couldn't have grown up without being at least a decent outdoorsman. The ranch life for a childhood and all... (that's just a best guess, don't shoot me down too quickly if I'm wrong :-D)

About the initial, year old question... I agree with the outlook of "it shouldn't matter". If society wants to get all "free love with whoever and without God", then there's little to nothing we can do about it on the large political scale besides stick to our guns. If the president thinks it'll help his position to ally with such ideas, (or actually believes that way to be the right one), I will pray for this country as frequently and fervently as I already do (and more), and I will still say all we can do is stick to our guns.

Do what we know to be right, and lead by example. That is all we can ask of ourselves, whether or not people of power publicly claim that we're doing the right or wrong thing. Why should it matter if we do what we know is the right thing to do?

Society is quickly falling into the very harmful world veiw of "no absolutes" and "relative truth/right", where the majority opinion of America determines what's "right". That's a bunch of BS (and I'm not talking boy scouts :-D) and if the BSA and a few other organizations (like the Chirstian Church) were the only ones left to say something is right just for the sake of it being right, or because some being MUCH wiser and more powerful than ourselves said so, then I would gladly stand firm with them.

The ONLY reason we should care if a president thinks we're doing good is because  (assuming we've held our course) if he publically declares we're not, then the trouble the BSA would run into would be the least of our worries, rather the trouble would be with America, poisioning the tree at the root so to speak.

 -Curtis

"The Righteous man leads a blameless life; blessed are his children after him,"...

"Differeing weights and differeing measures - the Lord detests them both."

-Prov. 20:7,10

One more pair...

What does a man get when he's running infront of a car? Tired

What does that man get when he's running behind the car? Exhausted

-Curtis