scoutmom

I was a DL for 2 years (Wolf and Bear) for a den of 15. WAY WAY TOO BIG. It was crazy and no one wanted to commit to being an ADL. How I managed was I delegated a number of duties and had the parents of the den share them. Snack was managed by one Mom who coordinated so that every family provided snacks on a different week. One Mom took over tracking advancement for me. She would check their books during the meeting so I could concentrate on whatever the planned activity was. I had several parents who would stay on a rotating basis to help out with discipline and such. And asked parents to come up with activity ideas that THEIR boys would enjoy, because if I planned everything based on whay my sone would like, not everyone might enjoy it. That worked well. We had one dad come in and build birdhouses with them, another Mom had her Brother in law who was a police officer come in and do a presentation for them. We had another family bring in an Eagel Scout that they knew to teach the boys knife safety. It can work with one DL, if the parents in the Den are willing to help out with small, specific tasks.

This really worked to my benefit when it was time to move up to Webelos and I was unable to continue as a WDL due to commitments with my job. I had 3 parents step up to take over the den. By this time our ranks had shrunk to 12 Webelos, but I was, first, happy that sharing duties over the time we were together convinced 3 people to come forward and, second, I was just a little bit proud of myself that it took 3 people to replace me !!! (Just kidding, but I was proud that some of my efforts to make my job easier convinced others to be come registered, trained leaders.)

Barry,

I don't know if it gets any easier -- my son is 12 -- 13 next week and my experience is that it keeps getting harder!!

I'll keep Kyle and his friends in my prayers -- and you too!

Let us know how he made out when you hear from him.

Before you start talking about asking this young man to leave your Pack, I would suggest a meeting with his parent(s). Ask for advice/information from Mom on his condition. Do your own research to educate yourself on his condition. Look for behavior modification techniques that you can put into place, not just for his benefit, but for the benefit of the den. I would not, I repeat not, discuss medication with his parent unless she brings it up. Unless you are a physician, psychologist or psychiatrist, you are not qualified to raise that issue. You may have an opinion on it, but it is not your place to make suggestions regarding medication. It is your place to observe and report his behaviors and let his parent(s) and docotrs make medication decisions. I speak from expreience as the parent of a child with ADHD. Medication can be a very sensitive issue. I ask for input from all of my son's teachers, coaches, and Scout leaders. I need to hear their observations so that any changes or adjustments to medication can be discussed with his doctors.

I would urge patience, but it sounds like everyone has already shown patience. Do you have a Den Chief? It might be helpful to ask your Den Chief to make this kid his top priority. I agree with ScoutMomAng that it might be better to have Mom not attend meetings -- if you have an Assistant Den Leader or a Den Chief to keep the boy on task. Kids with ADHD can be difficult, but given the right circumstances, they can be just as bright, creative and talented as every other kid in the Den. I can tell you first hand, that they do not want to feel like they are different. They don't want special attention. They just want to fit in -- which is often difficult given the issues they deal with. Anything you can do to help the child feel like he belongs will go a long way towards giving him some self-confidence. It may even help to move him in a better direction with regards to his behavior.

PATIENCE. Those young/new scouts will use up all you have.

Ed's option is not only do-able... it is being done! The problem with this method is having enough instructors to facilitate, let's see..... Youth Protection, New Leader Essentials, Tiger Den Leader Specific, Den Leader Specific, Webelos Leader Specific, Cubmaster Specific, Pack Committee Specific, Scoutmaster Specific, Troop Committee Challange......

It is sometimes difficult to arrange for staff to provide all of those trainings at one time.

I love it, OGE!

Certainly a lot of thinking and planning and re thinking and replanning would need to go into a proposal like this, but I love the basic premise. There are a whole bunch of units out there (the one my son is in, included) that SAY they are a BSA Troop. In reality, they may be running a youth program based upon the BSA's model, but they are NOT running the BSA program.

You have given me a lot to think about.

I was asked recently if I would serve on staff for our Council's next Wood Badge Staff. I am still working my ticket - hope to be finished shortly after the first of the year. I'm not sure that I can make the commitment that is required due to time restraints, but it sure did make me feel good to be asked to consider it.

And the best part was my son's reaction. He said, "Mom, I am so proud of you. You do everything for me all by your self. You take care of me and you have to go to work and you still make time to do all this Scouting stuff. I'm so proud of you. It's like now you're going to be a leader of the leaders." I think I just received the biggest paycheck I'll ever get. It's a special moment when your child tells you he's proud of you.

My son has a summer birthday and started Kindergarten at age 5. In our school district the rule is that you have to be 5 by the cut off date which is the end of September. So you might have one kid who is 5 on September 30, who is permitted to attend Kindergarten and another child who's birthday is October 1 who has to wait a full year.

He joined as a Tiger Cub in the First grade at age 6. He was a Wolf at age 7, Bear age age 8, earned his Webelos rank at 9 and the Arrow of Light and crossed over to the Troop at age 10. He had his 11th birthday 2 weeks before his first summer camp experience. So..... six year old Tigers?, 7 year old wolves??? Yeah, it happens ...... probably happens a lot.

fotoscout,

We Buffalos are a rare breed. Just remember that the rest of us are up there singing with you in Spirit!

I used to be a Buffalo......

JD,

Hey, those are my son's initials, too. I haven't gone far -- I still serve Scouting on the District level. I would never let the opinions of a few take me away from a program that I believe in and support. Once my son chooses a new Troop (yes, he is looking. and it was his decision, not mine) I will consider involvement at the unit level, but to be perfectly honest, I'm sort of enjoying, being "just a parent". I have a lot more time to devote to the training team and my Wood Badge Ticket.

Laurie,

I have stayed out of this one, because frankly, I'm sick of the whole "women is Scouting should run fundraisers and bake brownies" attitude. It has been my experience that women in Leadership positions in CUB SCOUTING are not only more accepted, but, it seems to me, more expected. I was once told that the boys who are Cub Scout age "still need their Mommies and that's why there are more women in Cub Scouting." In BOY SCOUTING, however, there is an attitude that men are better suited to those adult leadership positions. I guess it really depends on the Troop and your Charter Org. But I'm not going to engage in that debate and longer, both here in this form and in the Troop my son is currently registered in. I have resigned my position with that Troop and am looking forward to a more peaceful life.

Considering that you are perceiving a prejudice towards your Pack due to mostly female leadership, if you can get your CC/CR, UC and you DE to give you a show of support, that certainly won't hurt.

Good Luck and keep up the good work.

Scouting needs more PEOPLE like you, regardless of gender.

Take the course! In my Wood Badge Course there were two individuals of advanced age (one guy was over 70)and "bad knees" who fully participated in everything. Arrangements were made to help them get around from activity to activity, but other than that, they were right there with the rest of us.

They were also two of the first people to complete their tickets, while the rest of us whippersnappers are still working on them!

As the Advancements Chair for our Troop, when we convene a Board of Review, I am not there asking Scouts to demonstrate the skills they learned to complete the requirements. I ask them questions about how they learned those skills, how they will use those skills and why those skills might be important. I ask them what was the most fun to learn, what was the least fun and why.

I have (or had, but that's another story) enough trust in the SM and his assistants that I know the boys are not getting passes whithout doing the work. And if I suspected such, I have approached the SM BEFORE the BOR to express my concerns.

I would look for a Pack where the kids were enthusiastic and having fun. I'd check and see how much fun the leaders were having, too. If everyone is enjoying themselves - it's got to be a good program. I wouldn't worry so much about a web site - after all, if you're willing to help out when your son joins, maybe that could be your contribution.

Good Luck and have fun.

TwoCub,

I, also, am not on the attack. As the parent of a child with ADHD - a very real medical condition - I agree that kids with ADD/HD should be treated the same. You should have the same expectations from them as you have for all your other Scouts. You also need to have some understanding. The biggest thing I struggle with myself, is that one day, he'll be great. Pay attention, follow directions, not be disruptive. The the next day, he's out in left field again. Nothing different in the day- same routing, same types of foods. It's just his brain chemistry. Even with medication, he has good days and bad days. It is frustrating.

He is different at Scouts. He enjoys it, so, it keeps his interest and he can focus a little better. But there are times when he can't and those are the times that he needs more understanding from his leaders. He needs to be redirected, not disciplined. I thank God we have a terrific SPL who has sort of taken my son under his wing. He just seems to know how to get through to Jon and help him along so that the adult leaders don't have to step in too often. In spite of their claims to understand how to handle kids with ADD/HD, their way of handeling my son seems to be by yelling.

As for your theory about Lazy Parent Disorder - while I want to take you to task for that comment, the fact it's your perception. I know that I expect my son to behave appropriately. Sometimes he doesn't - and just because I don't discipline him in front of you, doesn't mean he doesn't get disciplined. I also have a higher level of tolerance for his behaviors than other people might. He's lound, he talks a lot (I mean A LOT), and he is the most persistent kid you'll ever meet. All of those things can be annoying, but it's part of who he is. And I love who he is.

I like Eamonn's nickname for his wife. "She who must be obeyed" I wonder if I can get my staff to start calling me that?

I stink at knots. I always recruited others to help out when we had to work on knots. Had a Dad of one of the boys in my den who was in the Navy - he was very helpful. Met a fellow Scouter who is a Merchant Marine. Not only did he know how to tie all kinds of cool knots the boys had never even heard of, he was an excellent teacher.

The only knots I tie on a regular basis are the square knot and a granny knot!

I have a couple of books on knots, but I can seem to translate the words and pictures in the books to my hands.

Personally I am not a fan of tattoos. Would not get one for myself. I might look twice at someone with tattoos up and down both arms and legs, but if that is what makes them happy that's great. I do tend to wonder where people who have tattoos to that extreme work.

As far as piercings go, I have both ears pierced twice. Have had them since I was 21. If I was going to get another piercing, (which I don't plan on doing) I sort of like the eyebrow thing. (Sorry Eamonn) My son (12) thinks piercings are gross. My threat to him when he gets out of line is that I'll go get my eyebrow pierced. He straightens up pretty quick, but one of these days he's going to call my bluff!

I got involved as Tiger Cub Partner with my son. My brothers were both Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts and I was always envious. I wanted my son to enjoy some of the things my brothers got to do. When he became a Wolf, a Den Leader was needed, so I stepped up. I moved from Den Leader to Assistant Cubmaster to Cubmaster, served on Day Camp Staff, served on the District Training Team and then when my son moved up to Boy Scouts, I joined teh Troop Committee and Agreed to serve as our District Training Chair for Cub Scouts.

Recruiting lesson? Look for the biggest sucker you can find?

I think we should go with McGuyver - that guy had to be a Boy Scout!

Ed,

I don't know what kind of experience you have with kids with ADHD, but my son losing stuff isn't a result of him being absent minded. It's a result of his medical condition. (Yes it is a medical condition.) He does have consequences (he has to purchase anything that needs to be replaced with his own money and he has to search for his lost stuff - i don't expect anyone to deliver it to him), however, behavior modification doesn't happen overnight, or with one lesson. It is a constant process and the support and understanding of his Scout leaders means a good deal. If their methods are consistent with my own, that will go a long way in helping him to learn to be responsible for his own things.

And he puts his name on his own stuff. I see that as a step towards him taking responsibility.

My ADHD 12 year old son constantly loses things. He's getting better, but this school year alone we went through 4 pairs of Gym shorts because he kept losing them. AND THEY ALL HAD HIS NAME ON THEM!!

I just wanted to point out that there is a flaw in FOG and Ed's theory that humiliating the boys will make them remember. If you requested that my son sing you a song to get back a lost or forgotten item, you would be in for quite an evening. Not only would he sing and not be embarrassed or humiliated - he just might give you an entire floor show including a song and dance routine. And have you joining in by the time he was finished.

AND--- the next day he would forget the very same item, again.

Now, if you made him kiss his Mom when she dropped him off for a cmaping trip - that would humiliate him! LOL

I appreciate everyone's input. I have talked with my son and at this point, it's still an open conversation. He doesn't want to make any decisions until after Summer camp (last week in July).

For myself, it helped me to be reminded that this is supposed to be fun. And right now, I'm not having fun. So I will be resigning my position on the Troop Committee at the next Committee meeting. This means I will be doing some serious re-writing on my Wood Badge ticket, but that's OK. I have a ton of support in the District, so I know it won't be a big problem. I guess I had better contact my ticket counselor.....

And I'll trust my son to know for himself when it's time to move on ... or not.

No, he's not having fun. And he doesn't like the new leadership any more than I do. And that is his opinion - not influenced by me - well, I tried not to influence him. Without going into too many details, I think the fact that the new leadership in this Troop very publicly (at a District function) embarrased me and showed me a great amount of disrespect caused him to form his own opinion. (He was present at the function.)

When I leave, the people who need to know, will know. I don't intend to be talking it up or throwing it around at Troop meetings. My son's friends and their parents will know, if they ask. I am talking right now about when I leave. When and if my son leaves, the SM and CC will know. And any friends he decides to tell. We won't be recruiting, but I'm sure it won't end with us.

Laurie, you're right about disgruntled families not speaking up. They don't want to rock the boat, but they're more than happy to moan and complain. If more people were willing to take a stand, this Troop wouldn't be where it is.

Thanks all.

Eagle - you have given me a terrific list of things to think about and to discuss with my son. I do realize what a big decision this is for him. That's why I'm here looking for advice. And so far it's all good stuff.

Laurie - I am active on out District Committee and am on the Training Team (been to training for my position and then some Mrs. Smith), and my son joins me on many of the District/Council functions I attend. He is learning the value of networking! The spin I put on it, is that when he's ready to work on an Eagle project, he'll have lots of resources to access. But, what I'm really thinking is that when he has finally had enough, he'll already know some adult leaders and he might feel a little more comfortable walking into a romm of strangers.

I don't see anything for ME to salvage in this Troop. I will be leaving the committee. We HAVE HAD a change in leadership, and that is the root of the whole problem. The only salvation I see is if our Charter Org steps in. Which they may do, because others who are not happy have taken this on to the COR and IH.

As for leaving quietly, I realize that it would be the tactful thing to do. Don't know if I can exercise tact in this situation, however. At the very least the SM, CC, DE, UC, CD and probably our Scout Executive will all know what has occurred in this Troop over tha last year and why I felt in necessary to leave. I have a good reputation in the District and in the Council so hopefully, anything I say will lead to positive changes for this Troop. But there are just too many bad feelings for me to continue to serve with people who show me no respect.

Keep the advice coming!