Scouter Cleary

The troops in the area aren't delivering the promise of scouting, nor are they recruiting the Webelos properly.

These answers are both for other threads, but troops are like ice cream, and there isn't a flavor that some of the boys like. So the pack that will support it, asked to have a troop started.

Thanks for all of the responses. I got word from the council that they want 5 scouts and 5 adults for each new unit, per the New Unit Application, and really aren't into making exceptions for that, especially in the area that we are in, meaning that there really shouldn't be an issue with recruiting boys.

My work is done here...movin' on...

Now that sounds like music to this guy's ears...WOOT!

And if you would like, adopt this unofficial motto for the pack....it worked for ours..

"Many hands make light work..."

That is really just their guideline...I am sure that if you approached the powers that be, they would be a bit more lax on that. Otherwise, ask them to open the inside cover of the New Unit Application and they will see what the requirements are...and I only know thanks to ghermanno...thanks

here we go with the quoting of context, again...

is that going to happen on this forum, too? I guess that I will have to leave this one, as some people never change *sigh*

Ah, that is what I was looking for ghermanno...thanks...I knew that I had the numbers somewhere....

PEACE!!

Ok, so now I have 3 different opinions...

me - 3 scouts, 5 adults

beavah - 4 adults, 5 scouts

my de - 5 adults, 5 scouts

but I understand that there can be dual, even tri-registered (EO, COR, CC can be the same person)....

How many people are needed to start a troop? Adults and Scouts...

I am having a discussion with my DE...I say 5 adults and 3 scouts...

1 SM, 1 COR/EO, 1 CC, and 2 MC

3 scouts, doesn't matter what age or rank, as long as they are Boy Scout eligible...

DE says 5 adults and 5 scouts...

Not that I want to doubt the DE, but there is a new unit that wants to start, they have 2 scouts and 5 leaders...they can get one more scout, but not 3 for another 10 months...

Wow, love how these topics veer so far off course for someone who asked a simple question....

Biscuit,

Yes, the CC and SM can be related...there is no BSA literature that states otherwise...good idea? no, and your story is another reason why it's not.

As for the CC being the CC and an ASM...nope, can't be done. One or the other.

Thirdly, if your son was "dragged out of his cot at 5 AM and humiliated" by the SM, get off this forum, and on the horn with the police...aggravated assault of a minor...

If this is too far gone, leave the troop, find another and come back to let us know what is happening...

As for all of you BSA literature quoters....get a life and let the posters get their questions answered instead of the same 3 people hijacking every thread with what they think is right...we are all here to help, not hinder and frustrate.

Wow...let's tackle this one by one.

First, this SM should have had the SM Conference back in October, stating that he found these deficiencies, and what he needed to do to fix it, along with a timeline of how long he had to fix it [30, 60 days...really, no more]. That would have taken until the latest, Jan. 1. So he would have another SM Conference in January. If the SM still felt the same, outline and timeline the problems again, this time, should be no more than 30 days. That would be February...so the SM is making the mistakes here...regardless of whether your son is a "loner" or not.

Second...a Scoutmaster and 3 different positions on the district/coucil....that is wrong, wrong, wrong...this SM can't focus on his first and foremost duty, and that is to the troop...he needs to step aside and let an ASM step in...or...resign all his district duties to focus on his shortcomings as an SM.

Third, you have recourse...the troop advancment chair, then the committee, then the district advancement chair...

I am giving the benefit of a doubt that everything else is in order, other than the final SM conference.

This has fallen on the SM's head, and unless he has a really good reason, this shouldn't have happened. He probably has clout on the district level, and you can fix that by pointing that out...get a copy of the Scoutmaster's Handbook...review the procedures and go from there, to see if you think that he is on with his decisions...

*stepping of soapbox*

That is not true...anytime you switch a position in a unit, you must fill out a new application. Most people don't, but it's required. And yes, for every position change. Tiger Leader to Wolf Leader, none for changing to Bear Leader, you are still a Den Leader. Another app for changing from Bear to Webelos Den Leader. ACM to CM? yup....every change of position. Check with the DE on that one, and if they tell you "no", they are wrong.

On the note of being the CC, the CM was way out of line if it comes to light that the CM put this scouter down for CC, without her knowledge.

For what it's worth, get educated on your position, Tdcd, and then put together a great plan, with the help of the committee...and as for forming a committee, give a detailed job description, and ask them specifically what you want them to do..."Can you help on the committee?" is too vague. "I need someone to take over as Secretary, it's a committee position, and entail taking notes at every committee meeting, along with some other duties." and then hand them a copy of the official description. "Go ahead and look it over, and I will call you later this week to see if that will work for you." If they won't commit, then ask if there is something else that would suit them on the committee..."how about treasurer?" or "how about events coordinator?"....the funny thing is that it will take some time to build it, be patient...

If you build it, they will come....

It isn't meant to coordinate, it's meant to be a seperate tool, to help with your planning, and to which, it should also be used as a template, or a guideline, not the end all to beat all...

National should be relasing more information at the end of the month, if not the beginning of August...

As for ScoutNut, don't kill the messenger...there is no reason to tear apart some information that I posted from LAST YEAR...it was a typical meeting layout...it works for those who take on a leadership role, but have no idea on what to do, and don't have the support in a pack like yours does...

As a Unit Commissioner, I would reccmmend the program for new units, or for units that have a hard time with retention or advancement, which go hand in hand...it makes life a bit easier for those who don't know the program, and decide that they want to make the commitment.

I have the program, here is a sampling from the Tiger portion of the program...I don't want to go any further, but this the layout for every rank, based on 2 meetings per month.

September

Meeting #1 [bobcat Badge, Tiger Cub Achievement 1: Making My Family Special (partial)]

Preparation and materials needed:

Index cards printed with the Cub Scout Promise enough for each boy and adult, a 3-ring binder foreach boy, 3-hole punched copy paper or construction paper, stickers, markers

Gathering:

Snack

Record attendance

Opening ceremony:

Tiger Cub Motto: Search, Discover, Share

Cub Scout Sign

Cub Scout Salute

Advancement:

*Bobcat badge requirements and Tiger Cub Achievement 1: Making My Family Special

-Learn the Tiger Cub Motto: Search, Discover, Share (completed during Opening)

-Learn the Cub Scout sign. (Tiger Cub Handbook, page 32) (completed during Opening)

-Learn the Cub Scout salute. (page 34) (completed during Opening)

-Learn the Cub Promise and complete the Honesty Character Connection (pages 29-30)

-Say the Law of the Pack and tell what it means. (page 31)

-Tell what Webelos means (page 32)

-Show the Cub Scout handshake and tell what it means (page 33)

-Say the Cub Scout motto (page 33)

Requirement 1D: With adult partner, assemble and decorate your family scrapbook

Closing:

Ask parents to do a think of and complete a chore with their Tiger Cub.

Clean up

Hand out parent information letter (Include a note on the chore as a reminder)

Tiger Cub Immediate Recognition Emblem earned.

First orange bead earned.

Meeting #2 [Achievement 1: Making My Family Special (completion)]

Preparation and materials needed:

Make arrangements to visit a library, museum, or historical building in your community. Submit a Local Tour Permit to your council two weeks prior to your field trip.

Gathering:

Ask Tiger Cubs to share with the den the chore they completed with their parent. First white bead earned.

Record attendance

Opening ceremony:

Recite Cub Scout Promise (Use index cards printed with the Cub Scout Promise.)

Advancement:

Achievement 1, requirement 1G: field trip.

Closing:

Thank field trip host

Hand out parent information letter

First white and first black bead earned.

There is the first month...with something like this, it may be easier to recruit den leaders if you take this, print it out and hand it to the "wide-eyed, asks a lot of questions" parent...they, like the boys, are sponges and want to learn...

I'm sorry, I didn't get to finish my post, I had to walk out the door and didn't want to lose my train of thought, so I hit send and figured that I would come back later, so I am back.

What I was getting at was that the Fast Tracks program really isn't a Fast Track to earning ranks, it is a manual...I know, being a den leader that it can be tough to get all the boys their ranks by Blue/Gold, and what to do at the den meetings, or how to plan them, and where to go. This program is really meant to be a guideline, not follow to the letter...really, I live in Wisconsin...one of the Wolf activities is to go to a park and clean up litter as an achievement...in December...so you see, use it as a guideline, that is what it is there for. If you are in a council that wants to try it out, to test and want you to follow it to the "T", then I wouldn't recommend it...I have been in 2 councils in the last year, due to job, and one Council offered to use it as a template, manual, guideline or whatever you want to call it, with flexibility. The other council wanted it to the letter...WRONG-O!! I told them thanks, but no thanks, as I already knew about it, and would use it as a template, to which I got push back, but used it anyways, just modified...

Regardless, I am back in the Council where I originally got started with the program, it was called the pilot program, then "IT", now it's called Fast Tracks...

So my $.02 is, try it out...the year is laid out for you, the activities and what achievements they tie in with, along with a bit of homework, to keep the parents a bit interested. In the long run, it will keep the boys interested, along with Mom/Dad/Parent, and free up some time for the den leader. You can also schedule out the whole year, which can be convenient...and it's even a way to get parents to host a meeting or two...if you have the resources, you can overcome those objections...

Fast Tracks is really a misnomer, I have been involved with it's use for the last 20-24 months and have found that it is really a good program...My whole pack uses it now, but it is what all of you have been saying it is. It is a den-based advancement program, as opposed to the original home-based program...I know that there may be some old school scouters that would opposed such an idea, but we are in a new millenium, and we need to do something to keep kids in the program. I guess that a retention rate in the 90-95% area will make one guess that there is something to it.

It really is a template, a "Den Leader's Manual" if you will, where it gives you a rundown of the monthly activities that can be done to help with advancement, along with stuff that needs to be done at home to complete the achievement.

Stelly, I am!! from WI that is, Bay-Lakes Council, Voyageur District, Pack 4363 Ashwaubenon. I am back after a one year hiatus to Samoset Council. I am the old Cubmaster, current Assistant CM and Committee Chair in waiting. I also and the District Fall Round-Up Chair, District Committee member, along with District trainer...all on the Cub level...I have one Bear, one Tiger and one eager 2 year old who wants to become a scout...funny how he tears any other book except his brothers rank books or anything with the Akela symbol or fleur-de-lis on it...

Feel free to visit my pack's website www.pack4363.com

or visit the new Voyageur District website @ www.voyageurbsa.com and join our forum also...you can belong to more than one