satl8
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Posts posted by satl8
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On 12/3/2023 at 7:22 PM, Ojoman said:
Check out the Federal Boy Scouts of America Equal Access Act https://www2.ed.gov/policy/rights/guid/ocr/boyscouts.html
school districts are required by federal statute to provide the same access to scouts that they allow for any other outside group. If they bring in outside agencies, distribute any sort of flyer for sports, community events or activities that involve any outside group they must do the same for scouts. Don't use this as a club... use it to help them control access to students. Tell them that there are only a couple of groups on the list that might ever ask for any accomodation so the district can limit access to only those that are on the list. I had a very nice chat with our superintendent and ended up having the school not only pass out fliers but also running a PSA that you can download from National and they displayed posters in the school and invited us to have a table at the family fun back to school night. We ended up with over 20 families interested.
All of the schools around us are very familiar with this law, They adopted the policy to not let anyone in.
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The word I got was that the University of Colorado requested that element be removed and not National OA removing it. It would probably be better if the slide referenced that or if there was a statement that went out regarding this. I would hope that negotiations are continuing but my money is that it will be out for this NOAC.
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5 hours ago, DannyG said:
So you are saying in response to @dangale, original post:
Stop right there. Cancel the family campout entirely??? In other words, by conducting this event they are violating more than YPT guidelines?
I understand your response. What I am saying is they need to conduct this campout outside of the scouting realm. Groups of friends and families can go camping together, especially at a public KOA campground. They need to be certain all attendees know this is not a scouting activity.
It's probably worse than that- once you take YPT you are not supposed to be alone with any other scout even if they come to stay the night with your child and your spouse has to run out and pick something up from the store. I would guess that it wouldn't take much for a lawyer (I'm NAL) to draw some pretty strong parallels of this "groups of friends and families" campout that is pulled together by registered leaders and probably discussed at meetings or if nothing else you probably used the resources by being a Scout leader to get emails and phone numbers of these "friends" who also happen to be either leaders or involved with your Scout unit. Would a common person on a jury (or a judge) look at this situation and think that this is just a group of friends? Or is it a group of Scouts looking to subvert the rules? Too slippery of a slope for me...
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About 93 F in Freedom units
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Couple of thoughts as a MBC-
Backpack, snowshoe, or cross-country ski for at least 4 miles. To me this would require the Scout to hike a minimum of 4 miles total and stay the night carrying everything they need for that experience. Doesn't say anything about a tent, want to sleep outside, great. I would expect food, water, 10 essentials, sleeping materials, toiletries, etc to be carried for the duration of the trip. Out and back would only require 2 miles in and 2 miles out to meet this requirement.
Plan and carry out an overnight snow camping experience. Is there snow on the ground? It counts.
Is it dry and then snows while they are there? That one gets muddy for sure- did they actually plan for the snow experience or did they plan for cold and it happened to snow? I have seen both ways, one of the times I counted it, PLC decided to go camping last minute when a big snow storm was forecast for our area. Got to the campsite, setup (cold but dry), and about 3 hours later it was snowing. It snowed all night and into the next day. I counted it because they planned for snow, if the storm had gone around us then I would not have counted it.
Only having to do 2 of these items should be pretty basic if your Troop is active in the outdoors or goes to summer camp regularly. I would not shortcut a Scout's experience to check the box.
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Hand signals are used in TV, I highlighted the appropriate ones below... 1 minute is a single finger in the air.
I am a technology fan as well but sometimes you gotta break it down to the lowest common denominator!
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9 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:
One issue for some Troops, including ours. OA election in March and our council doesn't have a summer camp. So, for Ordeal you have two opportunities. One a few weeks after selecting and one in the fall. If you have a fall sport (many youth) you really only have a few weeks notice and may have a conflict. Some Troops don't let scouts know until summer camp, so for those, they really have only one opportunity for Ordeal.
This will give scouts a bit more time to attend Ordeal the next spring. Will it make a big difference, who knows.
With the new Polestar process, election/selection results are to be announced immediately.
The way it was explained to me at NOAC, it is no different than a Scout sitting on their BOR and not being told for months whether they passed or not.
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21 minutes ago, Oldscout448 said:
"Over the line cultural appropriation" ok, I'll bite. Exactly who has given themselves authority to draw that magical line? Some Berkeley professor who babbles about the critical importance of tolerance and diverse points of view while demanding that everyone accept and kowtow to his "personal reality"? It's about time, no it's past time, that such people are told the shut the hell up, we don't care what they think.
Every native American I've asked ( Huron, Cree, Cherokee, Sioux, Iroquois etc) has had no problem with the OA ceremonies, if they are done in a manner that shows respect and dignity to the Indian people. Some actually did ceremonies with me in years past.
" not everyone agrees with that view". If we are demanding an organization that has a 100% approval rating we are going to be in for a long and disappointing wait.
All I will say, is there are native people out there that do not hold your views. They are not Berkeley professors, nor are they pushing political correctness. I will say that our Lodge has reached out the Elders of our local tribe and they in fact did have some restrictions and input to what was acceptable. We were like 90% of Lodges around the country and wore Northern Plains style costuming including the War Bonnets. We now wear simple ribbon shirts (and dresses for the females) with pants and some simple jewelry. Certainly keeping the conversations open to others is not going to happen by telling others to "shut the hell up, we don't care"
A simple search has provided some articles- and while they are not entirely accurate, there are some interesting highlights. Such as the interview with a Lenni Lenape Elder...
YIB
I too have kept the Vigil
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This is in no ways a thorough inspection of the camp (if using a current long term certified camp) since the long term folks should have done there job to inspect the camp and create a safe space for long term camps. If it's safe for long term camping then a short term camp should be well protected and a safe space...
There are inspections and requirements that need to be done if the camping spot is not a NCAP inspected spot.
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13 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:
--At Philmont, crews were issued an American flag to be tied to a tent pole. 1968. By the time I was an advisor, about 2005, no crew flag.
2017 and 2021 we were issued a Crew flag, certainly wasn't a cotton 3'X5' flag by any means but our Crew Leader was issued one and told to take it on the trail with them both times.
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When I was a Troop Guide for a patrol, one of the participants wanted a private ceremony. So we met at a steakhouse and with his wife and mom there, I did a small meaningful beading on the patio.
Same patrol, another gentleman asked for his beads/cert/necker to be sent to his house.
Did 3 others at either Troop meetings (2) or Roundtable (1)
The last course I staffed, they seem to like the group beadings, so the Course Director sets up a day and anyone that was staff or a participant come to the local camp and those that are "finished" get beaded. This one usually includes a pot luck dinner and lasts a bit longer since everyone is there specifically for a beading ceremony.
The big point is that it is your recognition and how you would like to recieve it is a very personal choice. Work with your Troop Guide or Course Director and find a solution.
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It was referred to but here is the actual process. Don't take any shortcuts or assume anything! Get your professional involved as soon as possible! Everything here is in order and should be followed in order...
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I will be there. I will be our Lodge's adult contingent leader and as luck would have it my son will be the youth leader. Tons of classes, trainings, fun events, and fellowship. I had a blast in '18 and look forward to going again!
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From my experience this last summer- I would not expect any type of variance or exception for cavalcade. Thankfully we all made it under the 200lb limit but one of our guys was super close...
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My understanding for question #2-
Withing 6 months of the bk case being approved Grand canyon council will list for sale our properties on the commercial market. We then have approximately 3 years to sell said property or it will then be basically signed over to the trust. I would assume you want as much as possible for each property since the final amount due is an actual dollar amount and not a property specification.
IMO-Seems the settlement wants cash not properties but would take them once a good faith effort is made.
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Grand Canyon Council has decided to sell Camp Geronimo and 10 acres of the Heard Scout Pueblo. 7M was the number we were given...
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What week are you going? We are 617-CY (June 17th) and am really excited!
Can't wait to go back HOmE!
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Fellowship/Vigil last weekend in August, small group activities and rotations. Masks and increased sanitation.
Ordeal this weekend, same idea as above. We will be following the protocols set forth from national about ceremony modifications. Essentially no contact is the big picture...
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4 hours ago, David CO said:
This issue is about people who do not practice a Native American religion, but like to dress up and imitate the rituals. Native Americans are right to feel that their traditional clothing is not a costume, and that their religious rituals are not a game.
Couldn't let this one pass- Sorry David you are wrong about this one, period. We work very closely with our affiliated tribe and have their full blessing to wear what we wear and do what we do. Our Lodge has 2 OA advisors that are Native American that work closely with our youth and adults to make sure we do not cross boundaries. There is also a National committee that works with Tribes all across the country.
After the last update from National about clothing we decided to revisit our choices for "ceremonies". I put that in quotes because it is nothing more than a play with actors, lines, scripts, and coordinated movements. We work very hard to make sure our youth do not use broken English and make our candidates experience respectful and meaningful. At no time are we imitating any ritual or religious practice.
Our Native American advisers had no issue with what we were doing but it was not appropriate for our area/region (Plains attire in the Southwest.) One of our advisers made a trip to the Hopi reservation and had a conversation with a couple of Tribal Elders to get clarification. Where we ended up now is basic Pow Wow attire that would be acceptable for anyone to wear in public (ribbon shirts, dark pants, some basic jewelry and sash belts) I would say that we have a good working relationship with the tribe and have their full blessing because we are able to work with them to respect their culture. Does that happen elsewhere? I don't know and cant say.
Nowhere do we imitate any "rituals." Native American religious ceremonies are absolutely forbidden and a no go according to National and our local policies. Name one Native American ritual that you have witnessed being performed by OA or Mic O Say?
All dancing and drum teams have their own sets of rules and regulations. They basically point out that anything that is performed by a dance or drum team must be acceptable for Inter-tribal pow-wows. You are invited to attend (maybe wait until Covid is less of a thing) and I urge you to attend and participate. You will be welcomed to dance and participate at certain times when allowable.
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Scoutbook should have it listed IF your council uploads the list into Scoutbook....
My Dashboard->
My Account->
My Positions->
At the bottom it should show all of your current positions and if registered as a MBC then they should all be listed out.
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Waiting on National to publish guidelines, if they want to make that available.
I don't think they will IMO. The logistics of getting everything right is going to be difficult at best.
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Ours are printed and then laminated
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Why not just increase the patrol members to 8 per patrol? The syllabus allows for 6-8 youth per patrol. With 8 patrols that would take you up to 64 participants. The minimum size of a Troop for NYLT is 4 patrols, but I think it is much better to have the interaction of 6-8 patrols than it is with 4-5 patrols.
I do agree with having 10 TG's though, seems one or two always drop out at the last minute or aren't quite up to speed yet by course time.
Considering moving packs
in Open Discussion - Program
Posted
Agreed, the superintendents have control of the keys and have locked everyone out at the risk of being sued because one org got in and another was turned away. The ones that do allow outside orgs have instituted fee structures that are unreachable for units. One school quoted us something like $125 a night for a simple meeting place.