Sarge

P.R.A.Y. has decided to change the appearance of it's Religious Emblems.

http://www.praypub.org/main_frameset.htm

I realize it was part of the Consumer Product Safety Improvement

Act of 2008, but I fail to understand why the re-design.

To me, they seem too 'pretty' and just plain ugly.

If the CM, ACM, DL, ADL, TCL, PT, WL, and AWL all have voices but no vote, who exactly comprises your committee?

I realize that things vary place to place, but in my pack, the CM, ACM, DL, ADL, TCL, PT, WL, and AWL *ARE* the committee...

Tigers have had their own socks for years. That's nothing new.

That PDF that was linked up by cimarron is fairly new.

Versions I have always seen previous to that showed the CS Scouter with the green numbers and trained strip. And also never contained pictures of the Bear Uniform. Only a side bar noting the blue hats/scarves.

This is just another example of the quality of leadership out of Irving. The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing; leaving issues such as this vague, non-specific and unanswered.

Leave it to bearuocracy to give an official answer that contradicts itself...

Tell the boys there will be a do-over on X date. There will be no absentee ballots. If you want your vote, you have to be there.

Majority of vote from those in attendance wins.

Period.

You need to tell your Scout Shop manager to get the red and white numbers in stock.

As emb said, Cubs and Venturing need them for proper uniforming.

If they don't have them, they are failing to provide you with necessary resources and a full service shop.

That is not acceptable and should not be tollerated.

Until they reach Webelos rank, we require a parent/guardian to be present.

A few situations have come up where the parent will be arriving late, and the boy comes with a friend and their parent.

As long as that second parent is responsible for the boy, we allow the primary parent to come later on.

With the scouting year starting to wind down (9 weeks, 7 meetings for my pack), I am planning to buy the Bear Handbook for my son soon.

I am wondering if the members of this forum have any input on the spiral bound books vs. the conventional hardbound spine style.

Last year, I had hoped to get the spiral bound style Wolf book, but the scout shop was out before I got there.

There is a plethora of both types on the shelf right now.

Has anyone had experience with both styles and is there a better option? Or is this one of those 'It doesn't really matter...' type scenarios?

How in the world can they produce something with errors?

It has been at least 7 months since they rolled out the new uniforms.

And they still can't get it right?

Do we not have a uniform committee that makes, votes on and carries motions to make decisions? Are these decisions not recorded?

Is there no proof-reading and review of doccumentation before being distributed?

Where patches go on a BOY/CUB SCOUT UNIFORM is not rocket science. Yet the 'best and brightest' in Irving still manage to foul it up.

Very sad...

*This rant based solely on the assumption of the guide being distributed with errors. If done properly, please disregard.

Skipper,

That's a different set of color combinations then I have seen in my research, but completely understandable.

The point of my thread originally was to gather which direction the color sequence 'flows'.

Does Bobcat start near the feathers and progress left to right with the AOL marking and crossover to BS ending near the arrow head?

Or is the Bobcat near the arrow head and the BS stripe ending near the feathers?

I have seen the 'kits' advertised on line with stripes flowing both directions. Just wondering if there is an overall concensus on which makes more sense.

I have a question that came up while discussing our

upcoming 'crossing over' ceremony.

If the boys are given a ceremonial arrow decorated with their scout

career achievements, is there a "proper" sequence to put them in?

By that, I mean is there an etiquette to where the Tiger stripe goes.

Floating around on the net, I have found pictures of awards where the

orange stripe is closer to the fletchings and progressing forward to

W2 at the arrow head.

Others (more common), show the award with the orange closer to the

arrow head and the W2 achievements ending at the feathers.

To me, that seems backwards...

For me, AOL awards are 3+ years away. This question is just a result

of casual conversation.

Curious to hear how others have done/are doing theirs and if there is

a 'protocol'.

I stopped at my Council scout shop today to pick up a few things for one of my Cubs uniform for our B&G this Friday.

The lady in line ahead of me was discussing uniform set-up with the store manager.

I inquired if the new insignia guide was out/coming out soon. The manager replied that it will be available in late March/early April.

Perhaps then we can get 'proper' answres to the controvercies the new uniforms have caused.(This message has been edited by Sarge)

I don't see the need to 'split' the den. I find it hard to believe that any of the other parents of your Tigers are happy with the lack of activity.

The CC and COR have the authority to remove and approve Leaders at any time.

They can simply axe the old DL and appoint you and your wife in his place. And as far as 'blindsiding' the DL, don't sweat it. He's not doing his job and should have had the rug pulled out from under him a long time ago.

Fill out your adult leader applications and give it to the CC ASAP. They will process it at the next committee meeting and address your situation then. Make sure you are there to present your side if needed.

Then, get your basic training at the earliest possible juncture.your pack trainer should have a schedule.

Dean is right. If they want to play holier than thou and do their own thing, no pack funding. See how much support she gets when she tells parents that THEY need to shell out the money for it...

Invite all of the seperatist den's membership to the regular Blue and Gold. If they show up without their leader, the CM should step up and hand out their awards with the proper recognition due.

For those who refuse, give the W2 leader the boys awards, AFTER the scheduled B&G.

And do NOT allow the awards to be given in a Pack forum.

They forfeit their right to public recognition by boycotting the scnctioned Pack event.

As W2s, they should only have a few weeks left before they bridge to Boy Scouts (correct?). Then, you will be able to wash your hands of them and not have to worry about them anymore.

CNY,

I'm not the type to be a confrontationalist, but...

This is the second thread about this topic you have started this week.

In reviewing the responses form the various participants, the advice seems pretty much universal.

YOU have to do something about it.

Speak wiht the DE. If he has as close a relationship to your CM/CC as you say, maybe that will be the kick in the pants to get them to DO something about the situation.

Who cares if he leaks it. At least they'll know you're serious.

At the next meeting, talk to the parents one on one and gather your own contact list.

The Council office has a list of all the kids/parents in your Pack in its records. Call them and ask for it.

Circumvent the DL and plan your own meetings. If he gets offended, GOOD. He's not doing his job. Someone else has too.

Nowhere is it written that Den meetings have to be on the CO property or even on the same night all the other dens meet.

Have it in your/other parents homes and rig it as your schedule fits.

Worst case scenario and you decide to leave but want to keep your kid in scouting, you may have to suck up that half hour drive each way.

I traded a 45 second drive for a 25 minute one to improve my son's experience.

For next year (Starting June 1, 2009), have your and your wife's paperwork filled out and turned in for the DL position for Wolves.

That way, YOU can control how the program is run.

After reading the 'Electric Company' article, turns out the kid in the pictures with the Bear hat and Tiger scarf - is a Wolf scout...

I guess he was just splitting the difference?

We use the CO facilities at the church that sponsors us.

Scouts, registered leaders and children under 3 are free. Kids 4-11 costs $6 and 12 and up cost $12 a head.

And I'm sure the DE and COR eat free too.

Our function is catered, and the scouts/leaders take care of clean up.

Serves as a mini- fundraiser for the pack.

'What would happen if they went on a troop campout, and organized themselves into functioning patrols & did as much as they could in a boy-led fashion?'

I'm just a rookie wolf cub leader, so I may be ignorant to these things. But aren't BS patrols supposed to be boy led?

Seems to me that the Webelos leaders are focusing on transitioning the boys into handling more of the responsibilities and decision making while serving more as advisors to prepare them for how BS works.

Am I misinterpreting what is happening here?

"I did notice this month that the drawings in the 'Scouts in Action' section about lifesaving are now using Centennial uniform (green) shoulder loops for the Boy Scouts. That's new this month."

Remember, the majority of these types of magazines are sent to the printers MONTHS in advance.

Since the Centennial uniform was rolled out late last year, this is probably the first opprotunity there has been to print the new image.

It also disappoints me when boys in my own Pack don't have proper uniform components (patches, #s) or have things like their recognition totems/beads put together in a sloppy fashon.

But if I mention anything or offer to help fix it, I get the "OK Mr. Holyer than Thou..." look from parents.

I just put my non-refundable deposit down for my sons first cub scout summer camp.

What should I be expecting when we get there?

Are the kids scheduled dawn (or before) to dusk?

Is it all fun and games or are there advancement/awards opprotunities?

Is there a chance for the leaders to step back away from the kids and chill for a while?

I have talked to parents of the boys in my wolf den that went last year, and they said they had a good time.

However, they were just coming off their Tiger year and were still young.

Now, with them about to be Bears, their maturity level is much higher (watched many of them improve in just the last few months...) and there might be some advanced training they could attend, if they so choose. Curious what may or may not be offered.

I'm using vacation time to get away from work. Will I need to use more as a vacation from my vacation to recover?

Our pack lays out the entire year at the summer meetings.

Obviously, there are some tweaks here and there as time progresses (raffle dates moved, Derby moved back a week due to track availability, etc.) but those are adressed months in advance.

If a den issue arises, it is the responsibility of the DL to CALL all parents well ahead of time and make other arrangements.

We meet every Friday at 19:00 except for holidays and if school is cancelled for weather.

And where is it written that the 'Go See Its' have to be done with the den?

Scouts is a family based process.

When my son was in Tigers, the only GSI done in a 'group' setting was the "Visit a historical building or landmark..." (1G).

And the only reason that happened was because the entire PACK visited the old central train terminal downtown.

If the current DL can't handle the responsibility and isn't fulfilling the program, someone else needs to.

One thing my dad taught me a long time ago was "S#!* or get off the pot. If you're not going to do something to try to improve the situation yourself, you don't have the right to complain about it."

Thus the reason I have an ADL patch on my arm right now and will swap out for a DL come June.

Have you or the other parents addressed your concers with the CM or Committee Chair? They might be able to influence things.

If you or your wife are unable to step up to an ADL position and cover for his shortcomings/hold meetings, you could at least talk to the other parents and find someone else that can.

If those options don't pan out, you can always transfer packs. It isn't too late. I moved my son in March last year, and it worked out fine.(This message has been edited by Sarge)

Why does sports/band/etc seem to trump Scouting?

I think in part it has to do with the recognition aspect.

If you attend Philmont and climb the highest peak or hike the longest trail, who knows about it?

Your Troop and the staff at Philmont.

If you hit the game winning homer in the bottom of the 9th or score the touchdown to win your team the District Championship, EVERYONE associated with your school knows about it and you can become a GOD.

Tying square knots and building a campfire can't compete with that.

In most boys minds, it's a non-contest...

GWD,

The reason for the difference in temp/jambo patch location for female leaders is modesty.

With the location of the pockets on the new shirts and their bellows styling, the patches tend to 'dangle' more. Especially for those female leaders who are more 'well endowed' than others.

It tends to draw un-necessary and unwanted attention to that portion of the anatomy.

So, for example, if there are enough boys to stipulate 2 dens per rank, there should be 10 flage presented is what you're saying.

Just asking because the boys make their own flags each year. They can design and decorate any way they want.

Start with a 12x24 piece of felt and have at it.

No custom made 'official' nylon flags.

And I realize W1 and W2 are seperate.

My meaning was that both W1 and W2 line up in multiple columns.

I don't know if there are 2 W1 dens and 2 W2 dens or what.

I just can't type this morning.

I meant to say That's why I'm glad leadership neckware is optional.

Not questioning why. I'm just glad it is...

As I'm looking towards the next scouting year, I have a question in regards to den flags.

I'm looking that far ahead because my son just finished his requirements for his Wolf Badge this weekend, and due to our current den size (15 currently, and we're doing our mid-winter membership drive now...), we will be splitting into 2 Bear dens after our crossing over in May.

No, really. I insist.

Before anyone says it, we have not split to this point because things are kept in line with the Leader and 2 Asst. The Committee and Cubmaster have discussed it, and have decided to leave it as status quo for now.

However, with the more complex requirements for Bear (and the activities I want to do extra with the boys), I will be offering to step into a Full Den Leader role for the Bear year and beyond.

Pack to my true point...

At the beginning of every meeting (Pack or Den), all the boys line up by rank for our opening ceremony and announcements.

a flag bearer from each rank 'posts' it's flag at the Cubmasters direction in designated spots in our special made flag holder.

Should EACH DEN have it's own flag, regardless of # of dens per rank, or is 1 per rank the norm?

Supplemental to that, when the boys choose their 'patrol symbol' in Webelos, is it a den thing, or a rank thig?

The Webelos 1's and 2's line up in 2 columns each and seem to have a plethera of leaders each. Don't know if that's due to their numbers or if they are seperate dens.

From my limited chances to look around (each rank meets in a different part of the Church), all the boys from those respective ranks seem to meet together.

I haven't delved far enough into the inner workings of the pack yet. Busy with my boys and if I seem too inquisitive/over anxious, I'll have that Cubmaster patch slapped on my arm before I know it.

Just curious how other Packs do it.