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Rooster7

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Posts posted by Rooster7

  1. BadenP said: "You three kinda remind me of the Pharisees in the Bible parading around with that look at me attitude and whom Jesus was constantly condemning."

     

    I'm so glad that you've refrained from judging others. Interesting how disagreement over the AHG program can trigger such vitriol from a self proclaimed minister. Perhaps the AHG axe which you're so visibly grinding has more to do with your personal views on faith than anything else.

     

    Hey everyone, look at me...I have an opinion that is contrary to BadenP. I think the AHG is an excellent Scouting program. Sorry - I didn't realize that liking AHG constitutes the wearing of ornate robes and saying prayers loudly on public street corners so to impress others.

     

  2. Undoubtedly, BadenP will deem my opinion to be belligerent and closed minded as well. Perhaps, to save time, Scouter.com should rename this thread to - "If you agree with BadenP and/or want to insult those who disagree with BadenP, your posts are welcomed here"(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

  3. IMO, AHG is a Scouting program comparable to the BSAs. They emphasize:

     

    Life Skill enhancement

    through multi-level achievement badge program.

     

    Girl leadership

    opportunities at all levels of programming.

     

    Developing teamwork and building confidence

    through varied outdoor experiences.

     

    Character development

    through community service and citizenship programs.

     

    Social development

    through organized Special Events.

     

    Spiritual development

    through religious awards program.

     

    Call me crazy, but they seem very comparable to the BSA. Regardless of what their website may or may not say, Ive seen one troop in action and they mirror the BSA in many ways. In fact, many if not most of their leaders are BSA leaders and/or have boys in the BSA.

     

    Faith is important. But its not pushed at every opportunity as some would have you believe. And IMO, the impetus and popularity of the AHG is the result of a poorly run GSUSA program which emphasizes feminists issues more so than teamwork, leadership ability, traditional values, and life skills offered by the BSA.(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

  4. I know how an AHG troop works firsthand... not through some friend's experience or by reading some Internet article or by some other uninformed means. And I can tell you that 95% of the garbage spewed here on this thread is garbage. They are not far right. They don't have a secret agenda. They are not evangelistic in the sense that they do not actively preach to anyone. Interweaved in the program they will act out their faith. They support Judeo-Christian values and act accordingly, and they will say the occasional prayer (and yes, they do pray to the God of the Bible). But beyond that, theres no strong overt (or covert) effort to convert anyone to a particular brand of Christianity. Now, is it possible that some backwoods group is misusing the program? I dont know? Does that happen in the BSA? Note - that last question was facetious. Of course wherever and whenever people are involved - a program can be subjected to misinterpretation and abuse. That said. AHG is simply a Christian run program that seeks to provide outdoor fun and education to girls via a Scouting venue. Unfortunately, we live in a world where folks will parse things to death in order to achieve their own goals and/or to tear down others. And this thread is just another example of that.

  5. BadenP,

     

    You said: In the Gospels Jesus many times had to explain and re-explain his parables to his disciples who seemed to have trouble understanding their true meaning, hence the scripture quote, "they have eyes yet they do not see and ears yet they do not hear." I clearly answered your question in my last post in a way I thought you would be able to relate to the best, and was not at all dismissive unlike your own question. However I guess that you just did not see the answer. It is clearly there. However this discussion does not belong in this thread and should end here.

     

    If you had simply said yes or no - or even if you had completely ignored me I would have been happy to just let it go. But seriously, youre quite a piece of work. You piously tell me that neither of us should judge which I clearly did not do and then you go on to infer that my relationship with God is not right (they have eyes yet they do not see and ears yet).

     

    AND worse you attempt to make this judgment of me to be the last word, by conveniently noting that this discussion does belong in this thread and should end here. Well, okay thenthis is my last post on the subject. To be clear, I believe Jesus is God and is the only path to God the Father. I have no clue if you believe likewise. You avoided that question to the best of your ability. And let me end by saying Jesus had little patience for hypocrites. That assertion probably seems random to you but I think most folks, who have ears to hear, know what I mean.

     

  6. BadenP,

     

    You said: I do not want to get into a theological debate with you here

     

    Nor do I.

     

    You said: I know I am right with God in my life.

     

    My post never inferred otherwise.

     

    You said: I will not presume to speak for God as to who is saved and who is not.

     

    In my faith (apparently not shared by you), if you accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, then you are saved. Theres no reason to doubt that unless you doubt your own response as being genuine. But thats my faith. If you dont believe that, thats fine.

     

    You said: One definition of Heaven and Hell in seminary was Heaven is an eternity spent in the presence of God, while Hell is an eternity spent in the absence of God.

     

    Im not disputing that. In fact, Im wondering why it was in your response.

     

    You said: I also believe that God is a God of all of his creation, as Genesis says of the Creation, and it was good. God is merciful, loving, and forgiving. As to who is saved and who is not that is only for God to judge, not you or I.

     

    All your points are valid. With one minor exception, which Im not looking to debate - I agree with your assertions.

     

    But they dont really address the one question I presented. If you dont want to answer, thats fine. However, for someone who doesnt want to discuss theology, you did make many statements pertaining to your faith. So Ill ask a second time and if you decline to answer (or present another dismissive response), I wont ask again. Do you believe Jesus is God and the only path to God the Father? If you say no, Im not going to debate you or judge you. Im just trying to find out if we have a basismutual ground as Christians on which we can build.

     

  7. "First of all I am not antiChristian as I am an ordained Christian minister, and an associate pastor for many years now, with two graduate degrees in Theology and Pastoral Counseling."

     

    BadenP - well, I truly hope that you are saved. I feel compelled to ask. At the seminary you attended, did they teach that Jesus is God and the only path to God the Father? I am not judging you...but I am curious. I have heard from several others that they were not so taught at the seminary that they attended.

     

    If the answer is yes, then amen and I hope one day we can reconcile our differences - as it is interesting to me how much we differ in our opinions - as we share the same world view.

     

    If the answer is no, then it is incredibly clear to me as to why we disagree on so many things.

     

  8. There's no secret decoder ring for AHG members. If you attend a couple of their meetings, you'll discover that they are indeed very similar to the BSA. Many, if not most, of their leaders had boys in the BSA and wanted something similar for their daughters.

  9. I am not a Pentacostal. But don't let that hinder your personal attacks.

     

    It is true that AHG is a Christian organization. So it should not surprise you to see its membership limited to Christians. But that does not make them bigotted or hateful.

     

    Do you go to a chess club to play checkers?

     

    There's a time to celebrate differences. There's also a time to celebrate commonality - whether that be faith, hertiage, or something else that one believes in and/or has passion for.

  10. BadenP - you don't know what you're talking about. I know the program first hand and from what I have seen AHGs number one objective is to give the girls a safe place to have fun with other girls. While faith is important no one is forcing their doctrinal beliefs down anyones throats. The troop that I am familiar with has Catholics and Protestants participating.

  11. CalicoPenn said, To be a leader in AHG, you must be an American Citizen. You can delude yourself into thinking this isn't anti-immigrant, but I can't think of a better way to discourage immigrant families from joining than requiring leaders to be American citizens.

     

    I really doubt that it would discourage immigrant families from joining an organization focused on providing fun and recreation to their daughters. In fact, some if not most may not want the obligation of serving the organization as a leader. BTW, shouldnt we (as a nation) encourage immigrants, people who receive benefits from this country, to have an allegiance to it? American citizenship is not such a horrible thingat least not in my mind.

     

    Shortridge said, And we've all seen how traditional values is a great rallying cry to attract young people. That words to live by marketing campaign really improved BSA's numbers, didn't it?

     

    Not everything ought to be about the numbersi.e. the one who dies with the most toys (or most members as it were) will not be declared the winner. It should be about presenting a program that benefits your children in a positive way. Id rather see my son in a small troop and learn how to treat others properlythen a huge troop whereas the boys have fun but learn nothing about character.

     

  12. BadenP - What exactly did I propose?

     

    You sure managed to extract a lot, but I don't think you represented my words very well. I stand by my posting - not yours. Others can judge for themselves as to what I said and meant.

  13. "Sometimes some overzealous, self absorbed, politico-religious fanatics in this forum take themselves way too seriously."

     

    Perhaps - but the overzealousness and fanaticism runs both ways. Sometimes folks claim to represent a faith, but there is little evidence in their words to suggest that they actually believe their own church's doctrine - much less the words of the Bible or other historical documents from which their faith is supposedly based.

     

  14. Acco40 - I'd rather have the "tyranny" of the majority than a judiciary of pseudo intellectuals who ignore their true role in government (one of three branches in a check and balance system), and pretentiously clings to judicial activism as a means to shove their ideology down the throats of law-abiding citizens.

  15. Assertion #1:

    Something tells each of us - what is right and what is wrong. That something could come from your parents. It may be the education that you received. Some may argue, I have an innate moral conscience. Many others will declare, It comes from my faith. In short, while there is no common agreed upon singular source for ones morality, we are all entitled to have a moral compass. Albeit for some, that compass may appear to be missing.

     

    Assertion #2:

    Regardless of where that morality comes from - in this country, we not required to justify it to others. Our Constitution and rule of law allows all citizens to freely seek their own faith, to vote without accountability to anyone else, and if we feel inclined - to seek political office (assuming one meets the established qualifications such as age and citizenship).

     

    Assertion #3:

    All laws are derived from morality (a code or sense of what is right and what is wrong). At some point someone said it is wrong or it is right to allow or deny someone of something. Example: Jay Walking laws were created because it is wrong to endanger ones own being and/or to hinder drivers from navigating the road without fear of harming another.

     

    Conclusion #1:

    Based on Assertion #1 and #2 - Our government (courts included) has no right to examine the source of ones moral compass and to use that source as a justification to 1) dictate who can govern and who cannot, and 2) nullify laws created by the Legislative Branch or by state governments.

     

    Conclusion #2:

    Based on Assertions #2 and #3 - It matters not if a law makers convictions are driven by his faith or an innate moral conscience. If a politician was fairly elected by the people, then he/she should be allowed to govern and/or legislate freely so long as the Constitution is not violated. If the said politician does not govern and/or legislate according to the desires of the majority, then it is reasonable to conclude that the politician will not be re-elected. However, baring a Constitutional argument, the courts have no authority to reverse the course of that government official.

     

    Conclusion #3:

    Our Government primarily the courts, have gone off course from the decree of our Constitution and the intent our founding fathers. The courts are nullifying laws based on an examination of ones moral compass vice the Constitutionality of laws and ones right to govern. Example: Abortion laws have been ruled unconstitutional based on ones right to privacy, and a perverse interpretation of separation of Church and State which does not exist in our Constitution as written. When Jefferson responded to a letter from a Baptist minister afraid of government interference in the Church, he coined the phrase separation of Church and State. He assured the minister that there was a wall between the two which would prevent the government from interfering in the Church. He and others did not interpret it to mean that no one with a religious affiliation could legislate and/or govern according to his/her own moral conscience (or compass, if you will). Nevertheless, todays political left has used this phrase repeatedly to nullify laws which they do not support, and to draw into question the character and decision making capabilities of politicians on the right. The Constitutionality of law and government has become subordinate to the political expediency of the liberal agenda.

     

  16. Jay K -

     

    Context is everything - especially when reciting Bible verses. The verse from Leviticus is referencing tattoos received as part of a pagan ritual. In other words, the point of the verse is, "no other gods before me". If you wear a tattoo that is a tribute to a pagan god, then one should be concerned. Otherwise, the Bible does not denounce tattoos.

  17. I do have passionate beliefs and tend to be blunt. But I dont think I ever had any real bitterness for anyone on this forum. Although I cannot say it never came across that way. Its hard to account for several years of posting so Im not going to pretend that I am guiltless. All that said; I envision most of you to be hard working individuals who love their families no different from me. I wish you all knew God. But Im not here to start another debate. Just dropping in to read a few posts

  18. NJ

     

    You wrote:

     

    I would love to see a BSA in which the views and voices of those who favor (for example) a local option on the gay issue were given as much attention or legitimacy as yours -- or even any at all. You and people like you are in control of the BSA, Rooster. You're in charge! And yet you seem to be complaining. Cheer up! You run the show!

     

    Okay, for the day that might be true. But I have no reason to cheer up as I see our society day after day leaning further and further to left. Yes, we swing back and forth, but in the long run the swings seem to go longer to the left, and the so-called middle moves with it. I prefer the morality of several generations ago (of course, minus the racism that some folks embraced back then). So while people like me may run the show today, I dont see that show lasting for very long. To many on this board, Im sure thats reason for celebration.

     

    Acco40

     

    You wrote:

     

    I wonder if there was a "sexual orientation" test for fetuses, what many prospective parents would do.

     

    I scoff at the idea of such a test. Even if you could show me that some are born with the propensity, it would not legitimize the behaviorno more so than a pedophile or an alcoholic born with a propensity to behave as they do. That said; I dont envision such a test influencing very many parents one way or the other. Those who believe homosexuality is normal, will not be influenced. Those who believe that it is abnormal, will adhere to their moral beliefs. If they believe in the sanctity of life, they will embrace that life. If they don't believe in the sanctity of life, then they're likely to find any excuse to do as they please.

     

    CalicoPenn:

     

    If there was a pre-birth test for sexual orientation, I think the religious rightor at least the Christian Evangelicals that I know would not allow the results of such a test to influence their decision. They would love the child like any other child. But that does not mean they would accept the so-called orientation as normal.

     

    I know your mind is much bigger than mine, but I still believe in the existence of sin. Not just right and wrong as society chooses to define it, but rebellion against God sinthe me first, God second kind of sin. There are plenty of examples of that kind of sin that has nothing to do with homosexuality but homosexuality is a choice and its a choice against Gods design for us. So to you and others that may seem restrictive and narrow minded, but I believe it to be the Truth.

     

    But as NJ advised me, cheer up. While your side may not have total control yet, theyre gaining ground everyday. I see a day fast approaching where homosexuals will not only be accepted, but celebrated. Yahoo.

     

  19. Hey Trevorum/NJ - just stopping by for a short visit.

     

    My point, as it may be relevant to BSA policy, is this... We (Scouters and those who support the organization) should support BSA policies that are consistent with Truth. Now, I'm sure there are many who disagree on what Truth is...but shouldn't we seek truth in all we do and say? Thus, I support the BSA policy as it stands today because it is consistent with the Truth as I know it.

     

    And to those who would attempt to nullify my opinion, claiming my faith shouldnt enter into the equationI say hogwash. That is, we all have different backgrounds (different faiths, experiences, etc.), which drive our perceptions about Truth. For me, my faith is the primary source of my wisdom and perception of Truth. So I am but one voicebut my one voice is joined with others and our voices are just as legitimate as those who views are not driven by faithor as those driven by a different faith. Hopefully, collectively, well figure it out together. Hopefully, we support organizations, vote for leaders, create laws, and build a society centered on Truth. If we dont, then our society and its future will be randomand the meanest dog will win the day.

     

    And now it comes back to my faith. Because even if my voice and others like me are ignored, we have a future that is not reliant on the ever changing values of society. Our future is not limited to this earth. Our future is with an eternal and omnipotent God.

     

  20. I try not to judge others...but I do judge behavior. And while the World likes to explain away all of our differences as a matter of genetics, I often see those differences as a matter of choices - which are based on our understanding of Truth. And unlike the World, I do not believe that there are multiple Truths. I believe there is one Truth - and it should guide our morality and behavior. Or said another way, I do not believe that there are multiple Truths, which lead us on diverged paths to different but equal codes of morality. This way of thinking is a sham, and a deceitful teaching which enables individuals to ignore if not outright mock God.

     

    The Truth that I believe in is a Loving and Righteous God. This is the God of the Bible. Those who ignore Him, try as they may, will eventually understand that He cannot be ignored. I do not say these things to intimidate or to be hurtful. I say it, because I believe it is the Truth that is presented in the Bible, in the Old Testament and in the New Testament. Fortunately for all of us, God forgives and loves those who seek Him...and His Kingdom is open to all who believe in His name. That's the Truth that I believe. It's in my head and it's there to stay. It doesn't have to affect anyone here. I am only repeating what I believe is taught in the Bible. It may rankle some, but it ought not to. If it does, then I have to ask why. Are you seeking discontent? Why argue against a personal belief which has no relevance in your life? Or perhaps God is trying to tell you somethingas Al Gore might say, perhaps an inconvenient Truth is being revealed?

     

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