Rip Van Scouter

How "definitive" do you need? The BSA Insignia Guide says:

"Religious emblem square knot,

cloth, silver knot on purple, No.

05007, may be worn by youth or

adult members who earned the knot

as a youth, above left pocket."

It says the same thing in three sections, under Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, and Universal Insignia. There is no distinction drawn between the two programs. If it is earned "as a youth" it can be worn! There is also a footnote in the latter section which, I believe, further clarifies the situation:

"*The miniature device worn with the youth religious emblem square knot indicates emblem(s) earned as a youth. Wear Cub Scout device. No.00926. first-level emblem (God and Me, Maccabee. etc .) earned as a Tiger Cub or Cub Scout; Webelos Scout device. No. 00932. for second-level emblem (God and Family. Parvuli Dei. Faith in God, Light of the World. Aleph, etc.) earned as a Webelos Scout; Boy Scout device. No. 00927,emblem earned as a Boy Scout; and/or Venturing device. No. 00930. emblem earned as a Venturer or older Boy Scout or Varsity Scout. Only one knot is worn, but any combination of devices may be worn on the same knot."

So, if he earned it at the "first-level" as a Tiger, Wolf, or Bear, use the Cub Scout pin. Second-level, Webelos pin, etc.

Again, THERE IS NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN CUBS AND BOY SCOUTS IN WEARING THE KNOT! Anybody who tries to "read in" such a prohibition is out of there gourd. Ask them to show you where it is prohibited. I think the burden of proof is on them!

The text does not even say that the miniature device MUST be worn, only how they are to be worn if they are used. Again:

"Only one knot is worn, but any combination of devices may be worn on the same knot." ....devices MAY be worn, not MUST be worn!

Considering that pins on a uniform shirt can be problematic, especially if forgotten before washing, I would say don't even bother with the pins except on special occasions like Court of Honor, etc. Service star pins are a good example. I have lost several, and now do not bother with them except at Blue and Gold dinner. That is when I "dress up", including long-sleeve shirt, poly-wool pants, and even the "obsolete" (but still permissible) olive-colored leader tie (I hate bolo ties! ).

jnclement wrote:

"Wow. I check to back in to find my whole scouting career reduced to my pushy parents, and popularity."

Reply: I never said that. I was referring to myself and my own troop if you check what I actually wrote. If you were self-motivated enough as a teen to complete Eagle all on your own without parental urging, kudos to you, sir! Most teens, including myself at that age, are not that self-motivated. That is why parental involvement is so important.

"When there are more uniform questions on the forum than camping questions, do you think that shows we're relevant to todays boys? I don't."

Reply: While I haven't checked your comparison, even if it were true, the conclusion you draw is a logical fallacy. It could also mean that there are far fewer problems with (and therefore, fewer questions on) camping than there are with uniforming, which is a completely opposite conclusion to the one you are drawing. However, I am not saying that either conclusion is true. There is just not enough evidence to support either conclusion.

Sorry for any misunderstanding. Poly-wool long pants are my "dress" and winter indoor meeting pants. Poly-cotton shorts was my other choice when I ordered my custom-made pants (2 pc. minimum) else I would have just ordered one pair of the poly-cotton "utility" long pants and been done with it. Now I wish I had the "utility" pants also, and am considering obtaining a slightly used pair (e-bay?) to make my shorts into convertibles.

Bravo! Good answer and good info Oak Tree!

Kittle, congrats, yet I am appalled that your pack was so poorly uniformed. Tell whoever told you he had to take off his religious knot to go check the BSA Insignia Guide. Not only can he wear his knot, but if he earns it multiple times at different age/grade levels, he can wear a pin device in the knot indicating additional awards for each addition award, but not more than one youth religious square knot. I think there are Cub, Webelos, Boys Scout, and Venturing devices which can be worn indicating previously earned awards at those levels.

"As a new user of this forum, all I can say is.........you guys need more to do. You could have planned and executed an outing with your troops with the time and energy put into this thread. Bottom line is......let your conscience be your guide, no one is grading your troops' salute."

"jnclement" misses the point entirely, just like on the thread about Cubs uniform pants (or lack thereof). These people are showing proper concern for two serious issues, respect for the Flag, and proper uniforming. It's all about patriotism, citizenship, and "esprit de corps", which I hope you will agree ARE proper concerns of scouting. I'll bet the people posting here have "planned and executed" plenty of outings for their scouts. I am sure they are here for the same reasons (I hope) you are, to learn and share experience and information that will help make us better Scouters. If the question posed by this thread is not an issue for you, why bother posting here? Just to try to flame someone and make them look bad because they are concerned about trivial (in your opinion) issues? I hope not. That would not be in the spirit of Scouting.

jnclement wrote:

"After returning to Scouting after a 30 year layoff, I am surprised to see the things emphasized in the programs, and the lack of emphasis placed on learning the outdoors. I'm kind of shocked I was able to obtain Eagle, Vigil, attend Philmont TLD, and a National Jamboree without knowing what the term "Class A" was, or owning a pair of BSA pants."

Wait a minute, forget "Class A" (bogus military term), but, you NEVER OWNED "a pair of BSA pants", yet attended your Eagle BOR, Court-of-Honor, and National Jamboree in non-uniform pants? Now, I am SHOCKED!

I started this thread, not because there is an emphasis on proper uniforming, but because there seems to be NO emphasis on it at all by today's parents and not a few leaders, despite the many opinions expressed here supporting uniforms. And I only made it to Star rank, probably because I did not have pushy parents like many others in our troop. But I did experience the most of the Scouting program anyway, especially outdoors, attending summer camp every year, countless campouts, hikes, and camporees, and, yes, a backpacking trek at Philmont (including Philmont Arrowhead award). No, I never made it into OA, because the OA election at summer camp was a popularity contest in our troop, not a recognition of who was an experienced and dedicated Camper. At JLTC my leadership and pioneering skills were recognized as I was selected as Engineer to organize our three-rope bridge building project. In a close election for Senior Patrol Leader of my troop, I got the second spot only by the flip of a coin. I was also hand-picked by our Scoutmaster to helm a "special" patrol made up of all the troublemakers in the troop, all attention-hungry individualists, and made them function as a team and win the Top Patrol at the Spring Camporee that year. I, too, have returned to scouting after a 30-year hiatus, with boys of my own in Cubs now. As a new Assistant Cubmaster, I can't speak for the Boy Scout program, but in Cubs I see the lack of proper uniforming, and I don't just mean pants, but that is the most visible, as reflecting something else missing in the program, esprit de corps, for both parents and Cubs.

Also: "It's also amazing that some people don't understand the term "limited income". Guess we just need Scouts to be all about upper middle class boys. Personally, I'll take boys with no uniform, if it gets them involved and makes them better adults."

Yes, I and most of our Pack could be considered "middle class", or better put, "middle income", because anyone who puts their mind to it can rise above middle "class" regardless of income. However, the problem transcends income, as I see some of the worst uniformed (and "pant-less") boys coming from some of the most priveledge parents. My own wife (never a Cub of course) thinks buying the pants a waste of money, since they quickly grow out of long pants, and "no one else wears them anyway" (not entirely true).

But I do understand the concept of "limited income", as our family income was cut in half when I lost my job during the economic downturn last year. We have cut back on so many "non-necessities" to get by and keep from getting deeper in debt. I agree that you don't have to wear a uniform to be a Scout. BSA says so. (Yet many under-priveledged kids are better dressed than my own, who, by choice, wear T-shirts and shorts or sweatpants most of the year to school and play). Yet, I see so many who DO have the ways and means to be properly uniformed, but just don't seem to care, since "no one else does". And the worst thing is the other leaders reflect the same attitude, usually wearing non-matching casual pants or jeans with their "uniform" (shirt only). I try to set a good example by wearing the full uniform, or no uniform.

You should really re-read some of the above posts with a more open mind. Proper uniforming is a major part of Scouting. Just read the section of the BSA Insignia guide (inside front cover - "Official Policy"), that spells out all the reasons for proper uniforming and you may better understand its importance.

http://www.scoutingusa.org/General%20Guide.pdf

hops_scout wrote (a couple pages back):

>I believe that oranizations must be chartered by the US Congress in order to have the right to salute the flag as we do.<

Really? Where did you get that? Police and Firefighters in uniform salute the flag. Are they "chartered by the US Congress"? According to the US code, during the Pledge of Allegiance, "Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute." Although the code does not specifically address the definition of "Persons in uniform" or what organizations they might represent there is a hint in another section on wearing flag patches on uniforms: "No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations." BSA certainly constitutes a patriotic organization, as do several other adult and youth organizations, not necessarily chartered by the US Congress. What sets us apart from most other youth organizations, even though there have been recent moves to disassociate BSA from any military appearance or affiliation, is that our history and traditions include that affiliation. "Scouting" in its original sense implies a certain military discipline and organization, which is still carried out today in the use of uniform, ranks, and of course a "military salute". As hops_scout further noted:

On a side note, placing the hand over the heart is also considered a salute and anybody can do that."

Aaaah, yes. But it is not a "military salute". The salute (from "salutation", a greeting) is a form of recognition or respect. The Boy Scout and Cub Scout salute IS a modified military salute. Compare the Scout salutes to the U.S., British, or almost any world military salute and you will see that, except for a few finger positions (outstretched or closed) they are practically the same. Now, contrast those with the Black Power salute (fist upraised, in defiance), the Nazi salute (arm outstretched upward and forward, palm forward), the "peace sign" often used as a greeting in the 1960's (even today by some), the fictional "Vulcan salute" of Star Trek fame, or even the old Native American greeting (elbow out, forarm vertical, hand outstretched), all forms of salute, but not "military". The military salute originated with the medieval knight's practice of raising the hand to lift the visor, indicating a peaceful and respectful greeting and recognition. We continue that today when we salute by touching our cap's visor or where it would be if we were wearing visored headgear.

Truly, we have a gray area here. Technically, as noted above, those rendering the military salute should be silent during the Pledge. Scouting tradition, which presumably predates the Flag Code, has us reciting the Pledge while saluting. What is important is that our actions teach respect, for both the Flag and the uniform, because they both represent important elements in citizenship and the Scouting program.

Do we really want to argue about what constitutes the "Scout uniform"? Clearly, BSA believes the "activity shirt" is part of the uniform because it is included as an option on the Official Catalog website, scoutstuff.org, when you click on "Boy Scout Uniform - assemble a complete uniform here."

Should a Scout-themed or unit T-shirt also constitute an "activity shirt" and thus be considered part of the "activity uniform"? Another gray area. Kind of like some of our US Constitional amendments, it may be open to interpretation, but who decides? In lieu of any decision coming down from National Council, it would seem that the local Council or even each unit could make that decision. My opinion is, if all or a majority wear the same identical clothing, including council or unit "approved" shirt and other official uniform parts, it constitutes an activity uniform, and Scouts should salute.

As a precedent, even military organizations authorize local unit headgear ("ball caps") and t-shirts. When I was at Air Force Basic Training, we often wore our numbered unit T-shirt with our fatigue uniform caps, pants, and boots, without our official fatigue shirt. As a USAF hospital medic I wore a maroon ball cap with the medical "Caduces" insiginia with my fatigues or my medical "whites". Did we salute in these uniforms? You bet we did! Recently I saw a US Army "rock band" perform wearing camo BDU pants, combat boots, regulation black web belt, and "Go Army" logo black T-shirts!

If I am wrong in any of the above assertions please quote me chapter and verse of the Scouting regulations which are in opposition to what I have written.

Thanks!

Proud Eagle wrote:

>I have some zip-off pants made of similar material to Scout pants. They are horrible. They type and weight of the fabric causes the zippers to rub. The weight of the fabric requires heavier zippers than most zip-offs, and so they really don't feel very nice.< Hmmmm. Maybe velcro WOULD be better.

>Zip-offs are fine for very light materials like thin, quick-dry nylon. It isn't such a good idea for most other types of material.< I have some fairly heavy cotton utility pants with zip-off legs and they work great. They have a strong, but lightweight plastic zipper with very fine teeth. The typical jacket zipper probably would not work very well.

>Also, zip-offs need to be a little looser fitting to keep the zippers from becoming uncomfortable.< Good point!

>Finally, the two types of fabric will likely fade at diffrent rates. So pretty soon they legs won't match the shorts. At least I suspect that is the case. If they were the same type of material it might work out.< What two types of materials? I was talking about using official poly-cotton shorts and legs from official poly-cotton pants.

And the way I keep my "legs" from getting lost or not fading the same is I never wash the shorts alone without the legs and I always put the legs back on the shorts at night when I go to bed if they are not already on.

Not only does the religious award (square knot)stay on his uniform as a Boy Scout, but if he decides to become a Scouter (say, Jr. Assistant Scoutmaster at 18) he can continue to wear the youth religious knot. There is also a knot for AOL award and one for Eagle rank that a Scouter can wear if he earned them as a youth, but I do not think a Scout would wear both the knot and the actual award, would he? I never made it to Eagle as a Scout, but I proudly wear my AOL red-and-green square knot on my Scouter uniform. As an Asst. Cubmaster, the Cubs often ask me what it is for and I am happy to tell them, yes, I was a Cub Scout and earned my AOL.

Other than that, I would think that any special patches earned as a Cub Scout could still be worn on the right pocket as a "temporary" patch, but he might catch flack for wearing a "Cub Scout" patch on his Boy Scout uniform. Besides, there will soon be plenty of Scout patches he will want to wear there, Camporees, Summer Camp, Philmont Arrowhead, etc., but only one patch is allowed at a time. To solve this, some Scouts, and some Scouters, buy special clear plastic patch holders that button onto the right pocket.

Glad to see you take such an interest in proper insignia wear. I hope you have the same interest in seeing that he is fully uniformed, including uniform pants, socks, and hat.

Well, I was not suggesting it for kids, necessarily. However, I have worn convertible pants on several camping trips and let me tell you, it is very nice on those early spring and late fall days, when it is a little bit chilly in the morning, but warms up nicely by afternoon, then cools off again after sunset. The convenience, and somewhat of a novelty still, of zipping off the legs when it warms up, or to go wading in a stream, then putting them back on later when it is cold or when bugs start to bite, and not having to go into a tent or find a hiding place to change back and forth between long and short pants is great!

As a leader, it is nice to be able to be in complete uniform to set the example, so that is the reason for my question. Are there any precedents for personal modifications of official uniforms that have been found acceptable in the past? I would think that sometimes the only way to get change to happen is to seize the bull by the horns.

I remember when red felt "brag" vests were only a homemade item which Boy Scout mom's made for their boys (Cub Scouts did NOT wear them back then!). Now they are made commercially and sold through the Scout shop. Even if they are not "official", they still are worn with the uniform. I am guessing that the semi-official (activities only, so far) "Expedition" hat is the result of many Scouts and scouters wearing similar commercial "crushable" felt hats on outdoor activities. I also remember when the Philmont stamped leather belt and brass buckle were the only alternatives to the green web belt. Now BSA sells two versions of a Scouting stamped/tooled leather belt, with even more buckle variations, all official uniform accessories!

I noticed that the poly-cotton "utility" pants are the same as the shorts. My problem is that I got the poly-wool dress pants for meetings and ceremonies, and the poly-cotton utility shorts for warm-weather activity wear. Would my uniform still be official if I added a hidden zipper to my short's pant legs and cut off the legs from an otherwise useless (broken zipper, torn bottom, etc.)and put the other half of the zipper on them, to make zip-off pants?

As shorts they would be indistinguishable, except for an extra bit of hemming for the zipper. As long pants, there would be a faint "seam" around each leg, and might not even be noticeable from a distance. I might even do it with velcro for a smoother look.

What do you think?

OK, I see there are strong opinions on both sides of this question. My only question now is, when did the whole idea of wearing only the shirt become commonly accepted?

When I was in Cubs and Boy Scouts in the '60s and '70's, there was never any question of wearing a partial uniform. It just wasn't done. Scouts and their parents took pride in wearing the uniform. If for some reason you were unable to wear the complete uniform, then you wore Civvies to the meeting and you had better had a pretty good reason for not wearing your uniform.

And it wasn't like my Pack and Troop were some diehard quasi-military fanatics (like at least one Troop in our district which all wore campaign hats and marched in formation). No, we were just an average unit. We even wore our uniforms to school on Den Meeting days, since we usually rode the bus directly from school to our Den Mother's house for the meeting.

Then again, we were not allowed to wear T-shirts and sweatpants to school, which seems to be the standard (along with bluejeans)in today's public schools.

Some of you say this is not a big deal, there are greater issues than uniforming. I agree, it is not a big deal. That is WHY everyone should wear the complete uniform, because it is NOT that hard to do!

Sitrep: I have come to the same conclusion. If you earned it, you can display it. You just may not be able to wear it on your uniform. The insiginia guide makes provision for one and only one "temporary" patch to be worn on the right pocket. This applies to the World Conservation Award that WinterFlames asked about above, as well as the Philmont Arrowhead and other patches.

So if you want to display your previous awards, unless there is a specific adult squareknot equivalent, or the insignia guide makes a provision for adult scouter wear (jamboree patch is one example), only one can be worn at a time, on the uniform.

However, if you have a non-uniform jacket or vest, including the BSA-sold patch vest, you can certainly "display" your patches there.

Thanks for all the input on this thread. Hopefully, this will clear this thread out!

On adult wear of the Eagle cloth patch, the insignia quide is quite clear: Adults wear the Eagle square knot, not the patch, however the actual Eagle MEDAL may be worn "on formal Eagle occasions". I would take that to mean an Eagle COH, NESA events, etc. Whether that would include other formal events, like district and council recognition dinners, etc., would be open to interpretation.

Here is the actual text:

Eagle rank. cloth, silver, white, and

blue on red, No. 00489, Boy Scout, left

pocket. Adults wear square knot, No.

05011.

Eagle Award. silver medal suspended

from scroll, No. 00135; sterling silver,

No. 00112; Boy Scout. Adults wear only

on formal Eagle occasions.

Eagle Palm. Bronze, No. 00335; Gold, No.

00336; Silver, No. 00337; Boy Scout and

Scouter, worn only on the Eagle Award

ribbon or Eagle square knot. You may wear

only the proper combination of Palms for

the number of merit badges you earn

beyond Eagle. The Bronze Palm represents

five merit badges; Gold, 10; and Silver, 15.

For example, if you earn 10 merit badges

and two Palms, you would wear only the

Gold Palm. If you earn 20 merit badges and

four Palms, you would wear a Silver and a

Bronze Palm.

Eagle. metal miniature, No. 00124;

sterling silver, No. 00024; tie tack,

sterling silver, No. 00025. Boy Scout or

his mother, civilian wear.

Eagle square knot. cloth, red, white, and

blue on tan, No. 05011, Scouter, above left

pocket. Boy Scouts wear Eagle rank, No.

00489.

He may have been referring to a non-BSA jac-shirt sold by a Woolrich distributor, not the Scout Shops. Woolrich makes several varieties of Jac-shirts, some have liners. Interestingly, there is no BSA jac-shirt shown on their website.

Sylvar,

I did a search on the Scoutstuff.org website for "aloha", "hawaiian", even "tropical", with no result. I looked at all the garment catagories and only found "Island Camp Shirt - Prints" and "Island Camp Shirt - Solids" in the Custom Garment section. As a 50/50 cotton/poly blend I don't know how good a Hawaiian shirt it would be. Aren't the better ones made out of silk? Well, I guess you could get a BSA logo embroidered on the pocket, big deal!

What I really want is a nice BSA fleece zip up jacket, but the Custom Garment available does not come in my size. Do you think the uniform police would get on me if I bought a non-BSA fleece jacket in my size in red and sewed on the Universal logo which is the same for the nylon jacket and jac-shirt? Dare I sew on my Philmont Bull also?

I talked to the manager of our local scout shop a few days ago. She informed me that the Jac-Shirt prices went up BECAUSE they got a new supplier last year. Now, she has never received any new stock, having plenty of the older Woolrich jac-shirts available in all sizes (...even in my 5X size, although no other standard uniform parts go to my size! Go figure!).

Don't most retailers sell old stock as clearance merchandise at reduced prices, rather than marking it up to the price of the replacement item?

I talked to the manager of our local scout shop a few days ago. She informed me that the Jac-Shirt prices went up BECAUSE they got a new supplier last year. Now, she has never received any new stock, having plenty of the older Woolrich jac-shirts available.

Don't most retailers sell old stock as clearance merchandise at reduced prices, rather than marking it up to the price of the replacement item?

Yes, PLEASE stop the insanity!

Oh yeah, here is another insane item:

I had to order custom uniforms for my 5x size body, since nothing on the rack fit me (except the $157 Jac-Shirt, of course!). In doing so, you are required to order two pair of pants (long or short, choice of materials) or two shirts (long or short, choice of materials) as a minimum, but you can mix-and-match with garment type. I decided to order the poly/wool long pants for winter/dressy wear and the poly/cotton cargo pocket shorts for 3-season activity wear (I like to wear shorts even if it is a bit chilly!). Well, despite being measured by the lady at the Scout Shop in every nook and cranny of my body, Supply Division sent shorts which did not fit properly, and TWO pair of long pants, which still had to be hemmed to length despite all the measurements! Well, we re-measured me (long pants with same measurements fit fine) and sent the shorts back for adjustment. Both cotton shirts (long and short-sleeve) I ordered fit fine.

Now, do you think I was getting the extra custom fit long pants for free? Not on your life! I said NO WAY am I going to pay for something I DID NOT order. And the poly-wool pants are the most expensive. Would they make me a deal, second pair for half price or some other discount? The local shop could not make that decision. Supply division's first answer was, send them back. Yeah, right. Who else would they fit? They are CUSTOM MADE to my measurements! Well, it has been since November and they are still trying to get a final answer. In the mean time, the local Scout Shop is sitting on them (figuratively, of course!)

The shop just called and informed me my re-made shorts HAD BEEN shipped, but I better allow at least 4 days, "just in case". Hopefully, I will get them in time for warm spring weather!

New link is dead too, John. Can you describe what you found on the Woolrich website? I have searched there and found no references to BSA or any jac-shirts that look like it. Most of theirs have shoulder cape fronts, single button pockets, or long tails.

AHEM!......

Thanks to all for the info and input on the jac-shirt, very interesting,....but does anyone have any answers to my questions on the nylon jacket manufacturer(s)?

Hmmmm....perhaps this is BSA's new supplier and Norther Tier is doing the field testing through their Trading Post. I can't imagine a BSA-affiliated organization selling a "knock-off", complete with BSA patch, without the blessing of Supply Division. That may be why Scout Shops that are out of stock in the Woolrich jac-shirt cannot get any replacement stock, until the field test reports come back positive or BSA gets a contract at the price they want.

Interestingly, at the Bemidji Woolen Mills website they offer two different jac-shirts, although the one with slash pockets as you describe is called a "jac-coat". The "Paul Bunyan" jac-shirt looks like the BSA Woolrich only it is not available in solid red and the pockets have only one button each, not two each as on the Woolrich. And no BSA patch of course!

The other, called The Voyagueurs Jac Coat is thicker than the jac-shirt (30 oz. vs. 20 oz.) and does indeed come in a version called the "Voyageur Scout Jacket", in Red, with BSA patch sewn on! It is $119, and only goes to size XL, while the non-BSA version is available in many colors and goes to XXXL and XXLT. The non-BSA version also sells for $121 or $128 in the tall sizes. How about that? It costs LESS to have the BSA patch sewn on! Both versions have double-button chest pockets as well as slash pockets.

At $89 I would say the Northern Tier Trading Post stock is a bargain! I hope if BSA does go with a new supplier they will pass along some savings to us, do you think? Maybe the Woolrich version will become a collectors item, or newbies will ooh and ah over the "original" jac-shirt without slash pockets!

Then again, BSA may just do an end run to line its pockets by switching suppliers, using the original patterns, and pocket the "profits". What's that, they wouldn't do that? BSA is a non-profit organization? You couldn't tell that by looking at the Scout Shop prices!

John in KC,

I tried your link and it did not work. I even went to the TinyURL website, downloaded their toolbar, but still nothing. How about telling us the main URL for Woolrich that you used and what you did to find the info so we can get to the same page?

Thanks!

NWScouter said:

"The picture shows her wearing an complete vintage Second Class uniform..."

I take exception to the use of the word "complete". If you look closely at the pictures on the website he suggested, the singer is simply wearing a vintage Boy Scout shirt. No overseas (flat) cap, no neckerchief or slide, no web belt and brass buckle (or optional Philmont belt and buckle), and no uniform pants or shorts (or socks for that matter).

Then again, when I see the boys in our Cub Pack and some Scout troops, perhaps the definition of "complete uniform" has changed, since many wear blue jeans like the singer and go without most of the other pieces as well! I wore a similar uniform with pride in the 1970's. Although I only attained the rank of Star (Required Merit Badges were a problem for me for some reason), I did serve as as a Den Chief, Patrol Leader on several occasions, ASPL, and lead the Leadership Corps, as well as taking on a special assignment from the Scoutmaster to Lead a patrol of "special" kids (chronic behavioral problems).

I was pleasantly surprised to find that there are several options within the current uniform pieces, although it may be just because some contracts have not expired. Please note that the pants and shirts may be obtained in a dressy wool/poly material or in more comfortable 100% cotton, as well as the more functional (but perhaps cheesier looking) poly-cotton material. The poly-cotton pants are in fact styled differently, being more like the older OD green military fatigue pants, with BSA brass snaps instead of OD Green plastic buttons. Even the small utility pockets are a nice distinctive touch, although they could have been made larger to be more functional. Lower, mid-thigh cargo pockets could have been even more functional.

Although I dislike the epaulettes, they do serve a good purpose for distiguishing the leaders and scouts in different divisions who wear the same shirt though the use of the colored loops.

My main peeves about the current uniform are the recent dropping of distinctive headgear for Cub Leaders and dropping the Green Leader tie (perhaps Blue for Cub leaders would work). Many of us just do not like bolo ties, and as a larger man, the youth size cub leader neckerchief looks kind of silly. So I obtained a pre-owned Green tie to wear to Blue and Gold and other occasions with my buttoned collar long-sleeve shirt (which requires neckwear for leaders), and will wear my open-collar short sleeve shirt on other occasions.

I think that I will be getting an Expedition hat. I saw several on both Cub and Boy Scout leaders at the recent District Roundtable, although I saw NO Campaign hats! Most of the leaders were either hatless or wore the red/green BS cap.

What is Transpor and why is it a concern?

I have seen several references on this forum that Woolrich no longer makes the red wool Jack-shirt, however, the BSA catalog and Scoutstuff.org website still refer to it as the "Woolrich Jac-shirt". Can anyone verify if there is a new manufacturer and who it might be? The current inventory at the Scout shop only has the BSA label.

Also, I saw at the scout shop that the red nylon jackets they were selling had the manufacturers label, which was "Auburn". I found the Auburn website where you can order the jackets for roughly the same price (with shipping) as the scout shop. You can buy the patch at the Scout shop. This is important if you need larger than 4x (5x or 6x), which BSA does not carry.

Please check your nylon jackets and let me know if you have any other manufacturer's tags, the Auburn tag, or a BSA tag. Also, about what year you purchased the red jacket. I have an Augusta brand jacket that looks similar and I was wondering if they were ever a supplier.