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Posts posted by Renax127

  1. ""FWIW, I wouldn't split 12 scouts into 2 patrols unless you're getting at least 10 boys on every camp out.""


    Irrelevant.   A Patrol is a Patrol.   If some of the boys don't come, the rest ARE the Patrol.  Six cooking in a Patrol, if it is THEIR Patrol, and not the ASM's Patrol, is good.  Three cooking in a Patrol can easily demonstrate nutrition, cuisine and hygiene in the wilds . Only if you have a drop down to only one Scout, and there is no reason he can't cook for himself as the XYZ Patrol of one, should you meld them back into one Troop/Patrol. 


    I heard someone comment at a recent IOLS " Remember it is Boy Scouts of America, not   Parents of Scouts of America".


    Roger's Rangers were adults.   ASM's Patrol won't be, but could be Scouts.  The Ugly Sneaker Patrol  might be Scouts, if they are "allowed". . 

    Oh my goodness this. Two scouts will do just fine on their own, unless there are adult requirements about what they have to use on a camping trip are enforced. And if they do run across something that needs more than two scouts to do, well asking for help is ok.

    • Upvote 3
  2. LOL...so in your example the military rules would serve them well: ;)

    • Dining Hall is indoors, take off hat. Get to keep hat.
    • Outside, wear hat. Get to keep hat.
    • Worn properly (bill in front), get to keep hat. 
    • Worn improperly (bill any way but forward) lose hat and learn the rule.

    I find it funny that the leading purveyor of the Patrol Method and letting kids do all the work while adults watch and guide, is on the side of "it's really difficult to expect them to know what's going". :)


    A wise man once said (paraphrasing), Teach them. Let them lead.


    So teach them the current military cover rules and let them use it. Imagine the look on any adult's face when an 11 year-old takes his cover off like a snap upon entering any building on camp. ;)

    Again, Scouts is not the military, so they do not wear covers they wear hats. So military rules on covers have no bearing, and if they did what eras rules should we follow. In the 90's Marines were not allowed to wear a cover anywhere indoors (unless under arms) now the rules are different.


    *Wanted to add this http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/clothing/style-tips/hat-etiquette/. Sure you could use this but the list of rules is frankly silly.

  3. <<It seems like it's really tough for any person not in either the SM or CC positions to really have much of an effect in change.>> 




    Unfortunately,  anyone who fails to do a good job seems to be able to affect change in a unit,  for the worse.


    Making a positive change is frequently tougher, as you describe.

    Well the universe tends toward entropy and rolling poop down hill is way easier.

  4. The saddest thing about all this is that, had he not jumped the gun by prematurely announcing his promotion, Renax would still be involved in his troop and would very likely have become the next Scoutmaster.

    Maybe I didn't make this clear, the current SM and CC were also telling people (including the DE) I was the new SM as late as two weeks ago, I jumped no gun.

    • Upvote 1

    Renax127 will probably never find his ideal boy-led unit, but there are those out there that at least struggle at making the attempt to be.  Is this unit boy-led?  If not is anyone on-board with trying to be one?  Are the boys wanting to be boy-led? 


    First visit: Are you a boy-led unit?


    No, but we're trying to move in that direction, but having a ton of trouble, the boys aren't ready for such a change yet.


    Now that's the answer one is looking for, join up, roll up your sleeves and get to work.


    Now that's the answer one is looking for, join up, roll up your sleeves and get to work.

    Not really looking for perfect, just looking for trying hard and acknowledging that it's a goal to strive for not something that can't be done. More than willing to help out however I can toward that goal, knowing it will never be reached not really gonna try to deal with intentional adult roadblocks anymore.

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  6. If you are anywhere near New Jersey, you are welcome to join our Troop.  Only requirements are that you like spending time in the outdoors and you bring your own chair and coffee cup -- so you can sit down and drink coffee while the boys lead.

    Thanks but I'm in Florida. I admit I should have known something was up when none of them drank coffee I mean who does that. :)

    • Upvote 1
  7. SP, this is an excellent question.


    However, at the risk of me being a smarty pants, the problem with the leaders who did this to Renax isn't one of training, but of character....

    Oh yeah they are trained all the required online ... uh stuff, Eagle, WB and OA. It's simply "the boys can't do it right" thinking on their part (what if they don't do X, etc) and an inability to deal with the chaos inherent in Boy led. Lots of but what if they do it wrong comments to me on Sunday.


     I am not an Eagle, I was a Scout and made it to Star.


    That said I rechartered my son, not sure he's going back but just in case, I did not. I looked in to BPSA before I think I might again. I also tried contacting our DE about finding a troop but honestly I did that before and it seems she doesn't know what boy led means either.

  8. Well the decision has been made, I will not be rechartering and for now neither will my son. When I got home my son laid it out for me


    When he got home from school asked his mom  "What happened yesterday? Dad was supposed to be SM and now (other guy) is" 


    "No point in staying, he won' let us doing anything"


    To me at home 


    "well I don't want to go back, I was just staying to help you change things anyway. I'll look for another troop but every one we've gone to hasn't been boy lead"


    "I'll join Ventures when I'm 14, I just want to hike and camp anyway"


    Thanks for all the advice and just letting me blow off steam today. This affected me way more than I thought it would, I was distracted by it all day.

    • Upvote 4
  9. As was pointed out be several already, they are not "honest" so what other parts of the Law are they going to break? Not sure I would have my kid in that group. But I will say that kids get a great deal from their parents. It might be best for him to see you stand up for your principles and leave to find a better troop. After all, you are fighting for his well-being and development. He needs to know that is why you volunteered to be SM, and that is why you are leaving. He will understand. Heck, he might know it already. ;)

    My inability to just make a decision on this is mostly because I'm trying to figure out what lesson he'll learn. Do I stay to try and help to show quitting when it's hard is bad or do I leave to show sticking to what I believe is important. Far as what he knows, he's probably got some idea since I was talking to him about "when I start as Scoutmaster" what I'd expect of him on the way to the crossover yesterday and then when we got home, after a long discussion with the CC and SM, I wasn't going to be SM anymore.


    Crap raising kids is hard, why wasn't I warned.

  10. But, if you don't feel like you can be supportive now that the tables are turned, then walking way until you cross paths with that "sidekick" is the smart thing.


    Just remember this feeling when you wanna have words with your son's coach or youth leader. ;)

    Well I'd like to be the kind of person that could let it go and still be supportive and I try but I think it's important for me to accept that I probably can't do that and not alienate someone from scouting by not being able too.

  11. Running a boy led program is a lot more difficult than running an adult led program.

    Part of the discussion yesterday centered around my assertion that "a patrol is a patrol whether that's 2 scouts or 10" and that I expected the 2 scouts to camp as a patrol and not be put with some other patrol. They just could not accept that 2 scouts could do it on their own and pointed out all the other troops that don't do that either. They were thoroughly scandalized when I said "I don't really care what anyone else is doing, we should do it the right way" and insisted that yes I did need to care. They insist on dining fly's, Coleman stoves, etc on the camping trips, unless it's a backpacking trip which they've done 1 in the last 2 years mostly because I didn't let the adult "fix" the one we had scheduled.


    I am, and pretty much always was I guess, going to bow out of leadership. I don't see the point of it for me or for the continued success of the troop or the boys in it.

  12. Stick around for 4 to 6 weeks and see how it shakes out.  That lets the boys know that you were willing and able, but that the decision was made elsewhere.  

    If nothing snaps, quietly go camping with your boy.  If you drop your BSA membership, you can even let him invite a friend to go camping with y'all.


    My evil side thinks that perhaps many of the scouts didn't want a 'boy-led' troop.  It's work for them.  Failure to do that work is embarrassing, and has consequences.  Many of my scouts learned from their failures; they learned that they never wanted to be a leader again.

    I think that's part of it, one of the things said was "well the boys have to have fun or they won't come back". Well of course its fun to get things without putting in any effort. I don't know that I want to stay around and see the little progress I've made with the new scouts in particular, destroyed.

  13. Yes, I got it the first time. How ever you decide to respond, keep the topic on the expectations and the circumstances. Don't point fingers, mention names and don't make it me against the world. If you can't do that, than no response is better than a scorched earth response. Everyone lives in the same community, so maintain your dignity and integrity. 



    I have no intention of making a stink of any kind, I've seen the adult drama screw up too many troops/packs and ruin Scouting for families to do that. Anything I have to say will be to the involved parties alone.


    Part of me thinking about leaving is understanding that I might not be able to maintain that because of the way things were handled and mostly because of the person I am.

  14. @@Renax127 I read this last night before bed. Re-reading it this AM I'm thinking that you should have a meeting with the guys that made BOTH decisions. Ask them what gives. Why the change? Which decision are they going to stick with and why? They OWE you that. This is Scouting and they need to come clean and be honest. @@Stosh is right, even if they give you an answer it's likely time to move.


    It appears "loyal" is not in someone's vocabulary, so let's hope the other 11 points are. They owe you an explanation otherwise how can you answer you son? I'd hold them to that. Face to face, man to man. My two cents.

    The CC and SM were the ones that told me after the cross over yesterday, the reason they gave was the other guy decided he wanted the job now after not wanting it before. It was made clear they didn't like the idea of me trying to make it a patrol method, boy led troop. There might have been something else involved I don't know, heck maybe some parent complained that I was too rough/demanding on their kid, which I will admit I might have done.

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  15. Renax, I understand your hurt, truly I do. Take the time you need to get far enough to think about your next step without letting emotion drive your decisions. Don't loose one bit of the integrity and respect you have built up to this point.


    People by instinct don't like confrontation and will allow some chaos even when they know it is wrong to prevent getting involved. So, reacting emotionally against what has happened will only push them away from you. If the situation is how you described, these other adults don't have your passion or drive and sooner than later will be looking for someone to release them. And, I learned over the years that the dominant adult driving the program doesn't always have "master" in the title. Be patient, be humble, be loyal, and stay the course. Your passion will be rewarded.


    Some years later I can say the hurt doesn't completely go away, but going forward without letting the anger make your choices brings a smile and a strong sense of satisfaction for making the hard choices.


    I wish you the best in the future of scouting my friend.



    Right now I'm leaning toward not re-chartering. I (along with every other leader) have been presenting myself as SM to everyone, even the DE, and now to suddenly have someone else announced tonight as the new SM with no explanation is just going to make me look like an ass. On top of it I was asked to take over as SM by the current SM and CC in March and I made it clear what I was going to do. I just don't feel like hanging around and dealing with whatever.


    If my son decides to drop scouts (I'm making him stay till April no matter what) then the two of us can just go backpacking/camping on our own for a little while with less hassle. He just turned 12 and has earned First Class so we can look for a Venturing crew in a couple years and he can still earn Eagle if he wants. He's just in Scouts for the camping anyway and he's frustrated with all the lame crap he has to deal with to get to the camping.


    I don't want to make this about me but no matter what I do my son sees that I'm not getting the job I've been doing for 6 months now for some unknown reason. He's a bright kid and will figure out something is up when the troop reverts back to the old way of doing things. I am so confused right now.

  16. So today I showed up at a cross over where some of the Webelos were joining our troop, along with some scouts, our CC and the guy that is currently our SM (on paper) I've been doing the job for a few months now and was officially supposed to take over in January. I've mentioned on here about a current ASM that's been there since the start and is sort of a pain and pretty anti-boy lead.


    Welp come to find out I am no longer going to be taking over as SM the ASM I mentioned decided he wanted to do it and the current SM, CC, COR have already signed off on it about 2 weeks ago.  So I am feeling angry and more than a little hurt. I have been recruiting pretty hard, I've been introducing myself as SM, heck I did it yesterday in front of the CC and the ASM, I've also been leading and working with the boys under that assumption. Now it's going to look like I was a problem of some kind and they "removed" me from the position.


    Yeah I joined for my son and to help and I have honestly never card about recognition (I mean it's nice but ...)  and I've done my best to stay out of the politics involved but I was looking forward to it, especially for the challenge. And whatever my problems are with the ASM I always thought he was a stand up guy. I don't know maybe I eel betrayed too. I'd like to think I would have handled it better if he had come to me first, I might not have but I would have liked the opportunity.


    I'm not sure what to do or what my role really should be moving forward.


    p.s. No I haven't told my son all of this just that I decided not to be SM. His future in the troop was in question prior to this so I'm not sure what he'll do now. So yeah this is all adult drama crap.

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