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Posts posted by RememberSchiff

  1. 1 hour ago, MattR said:

    That would be some great visibility.

    @RememberSchiff , you should edit your post to include the quotes. I thought this was your idea.

    Sorry about that, I edited to hopefully provide better source clarity. 

    When quoting a media source, particularly one already with interview quotes in it, I prefer to italicize the quoted source text (maybe I should change font too).  It seems cleaner visually to me. Another reason, albeit technical, is quote marks have been interpreted as an embedded command delimiter by forum software which has lead to data migration hiccups in the past.

  2. On 3/31/2020 at 10:19 PM, HelpfulTracks said:

    So with the Coronavirus/Covid-19 changing our country and the world on a daily and hourly basis, I expect we will see a great deal of permanent cultural changes in most societies in the near future.

    Among them I expect to see the handshake becoming near taboo, including the Scout handshake, and thereby the OA handshake.

    The left handed handshake and clasp are such an identifiable part of Scouting worldwide that it is hard to imagine it going away, but unfortunately I think it will. 

    What method of greeting and respect, that would be unique to Scouting, could we adopt to take its place?

    With Scout Sunday approaching, I have been giving this more thought.

    Personally, I have always preferred a more meaningful, less odd "right-hand" shake over a "left-hand, Scout handshake" as the former is not only a sign of friendship but also can be a giving your word (a contract?) with a firm grip from your strong arm. But alas covid...

    Perhaps the Scout sign with a Scout smile should now be used.

    A greeting of friendship, peace, trustworthiness, and helpfulness...

    My $0.02,

  3. Here's the start of an idea from source


    Isaac is thinking ahead to this summer when he'll be traveling for the Boy Scout Jamboree and eventually will make his way to Washington, D.C. He says he would love to camp on the White House lawn and hopes President Joe Biden might extend an invitation.

    “If he had one wish right now, it would be for the president to ask him to camp out on the White House lawn,” Isaac’s dad says. “Wouldn’t that be neat? It would be a feel-good story for the nation.” 


    Perhaps Isaac's parents could be invited to stay in the Lincoln bedroom?


    • Upvote 2
  4. Update Feb 1, 2023. Iowa Natural Heritage Foundation raised funds to purchase camp.

    Iowa Natural Heritage Foundation (INHF) is the buyer. $7M plus

    People throughout Iowa and Nebraska contributed to a fund to help make $2.8 million in repairs to the camp after a tornado ripped through in June 2008...

    "In working on the sale with the council, INHF has agreed to do three things: Open the property to the public; maintain the memorial to four boys that died in a 2008 tornado on the property; and honor and share the history of LSSR as a scout camp," the organization said.

    Source link:


    • Thanks 1
    • Upvote 1
  5. Update 1/11/23 from Virginia legislature:

    Delegate of the 47th District of the Commonwealth of Virginia, Patrick Hope (D-Arlington) has introduced House Joint Resolution 531:

    Constitutional amendment (first reference); personal property tax; exemption. Provides that property owned by a chartered organization and used solely for the purpose of supporting one or more scouting units holding a charter issued by the Boy Scouts of America or Girl Scouts of the United States of America shall be exempt from state and local taxation.

    Those organizations would join other nonprofits that also enjoy this status, including museums, churches, the YMCA and similar religious groups.

    “I know many Scout troops rely on vehicles for camping trips and backpacking adventures across the state and the country,” Hope said. “Many troops, however, cannot afford other means of transportation to these excursions and owning your own van(s) is an economical way to afford these life-changing experiences.”


    Full Resolution in pdf


    • Like 1
  6. Interesting side note...

    Gloversville, NY - Town stepped up to become Troop 7's new charter organization as the Foothills Methodist Church which had been CO for 60 years could no longer perform the duties.

    “Basically, it’s (Troop 7) going to have to be completely redone from the ground up. Where it stands, they have three active Boy Scouts in it, and no troop committee, so we’re going to be starting-over new.”,  according to Town Clerk (and new COR) Jenni Mazur.  “We will be discussing giving them a meeting place within the city. This is going to be a combined thing where boys from Gloversville and Johnstown will be joining.” The city must pay a $75 annual fee and she and Mayor Vince DeSantis must undergo Boy Scouts of America certification training to serve on the newly reconstituted Boy Scout Troop 7 committee, which will consist of seven members.

    More at source:


  7. "Well, I think we're definitely crazy guys," Voelz said in 2021 when the troop held the plunge at a frozen Mirror Lake at Camp Stidwell. "The troop is kind of known for that as well and we attract that kind of craziness, having fun regardless of your circumstances. Something the boys have heard me say a million times, is there is no such thing as bad weather, just poor choice in clothing. And so, you know, we got a fire, we can warm back up, we're not going to die — probably.

    "This is kind of who we are. We do crazy things, you know. And in the midst of not being able to do things, we're still going to do them in a safe way if we can. We're going to find a way to navigate that and still do our crazy stuff."

    Ah, adventure and fun while managing risk - scouting.

    More at source:



    • Haha 1
  8. Update Dec 28, 2022:

    New Birth of Freedom Council executive board members are negotiating with the Central Pennsylvania Conservancy for the sale of 916 "buffer" acres around Camp Tuckahoe on South Mountain. Does this include March 15, 2021 fire area?

    More details at sources, except there is no mention of the March 15, 2021 fire which burned 150 acres along South Mountain.



  9. Segler wanted to be a cowboy when he was a kid growing up in Alabama. Instead, he found his calling as a Western oil painter.

    “In 1977 I got a job as a cowboy in a living history program at Philmont Scout Ranch in northern New Mexico. I worked in the program for seven years,” he said. “During my time at the ranch, I began painting professionally, particularly cowboy subjects. I signed on with galleries in Ft. Worth and Santa Fe and started showing my work around the Southwest. I still go on cattle drives with them, which continues to inspire my paintings.”


    In 2016, the Eagle Scout who has been involved with scouting for more than 50 years, took on one of his most ambitious and time-consuming projects, one that was very close to his heart. “David Carr, prominent Los Alamos community supporter, approached me about doing a painting that would commemorate the upcoming 100th Anniversary of the Los Alamos Ranch School and Troop 22,” Segler said. “The founders of the Ranch School built their new program on the philosophy of Baden Powell’s fledgling BSA, which was less than 10 years old at the time. Troop 22 sprung out of the Ranch School and was the first and only mounted Scout troop in all of Scouting. Every boy at the school was a member of the troop, and every boy was issued a horse for the duration of their stay at the Ranch School.”...

    The Boys of Pajarito Plateau

    The Boys of Pajarito Plateau - Jeff Segler

    More at source, including art show at Karen Wray Gallery :


    • Like 1
    • Thanks 2
  10. Mid-America Council seeks buyer for Little Sioux Scout Ranch

    The Iowa Natural Heritage Foundation is campaigning to raise $2 million by Dec 31, 2022 to purchase the almost 1,800 acres of land for wildlife habitat and recreational use.

    The ranch, spread across the western slope of the Loess Hills, has given Scouts a place to hike, canoe, fish and camp for more than 50 years.

    The Mid-America Council ...wanted to find a buyer who could do three things: open the property to the public; maintain the memorial to the four boys who died in the tornado; and honor and share the history of the ranch as a Scout camp.

    More at source:


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  11. On 3/19/2022 at 7:34 AM, RememberSchiff said:

    Minsi Trails Council is selling 900 acre Trexler Scout Reservation property in Monroe County, PA (Poconos) to help cover its $2.6 million conribution to the Trust.

    "The council said it will take out a $4.5 million loan to help cover the debt and operations."

    Starting in 2024, all Minsi Trails camping will occur at Camp Minsi on the 400-acre Stillwater Lake in Coolbaugh and Tobyhanna townships.

    “Respectfully, this is quite possibly the most horrible decision that council leadership could have made,” Matthew Miles of Palmerton posted in a Facebook response to Minsi Trails Council’s post. “Thanks to the donation of the land by General Harry C. Trexler a century ago, scouting was given a chance to grow and flourish in Eastern Pennsylvania. Now, because no one wants to explore all options, or think outside of the box, this land will be gone. There is zero chance of getting this land back.”

    “We were told nothing was going to change with the camps,” Peter Felton said. “To consolidate into one camp is ridiculous. It will require infrastructure. [Trexler] has two dining halls, a pool and an area built for the Cub Scouts, which Minsi would need to put in. This camp has been here since I was a child and it’s a legacy going away.”

    In the last ten years, Council Boy Scout membership has declined from over 10,000 youth to 4,500.

    Minsi Trails Council will also sell/relocate its Service Center and Scout Store. 






    Update 12/21/2022: Camp Trexler, Pocono Heritage Land Trust (PHLT)

    PHLT plans to put in a bid as soon as the property gets listed for sale in the first quarter of 2023, but one complication in the matter is that the land trust is only allowed to pay the appraised value of a property.

    So, a win for PHLT might look like someone else buying the property — a hunting club or church group, for example — and partnering with the PHLT to preserve it.

    “If we can’t buy the property, we want to work with whoever does buy the property to make sure that it’s not developed,” PHLT Executive Director Louise Troutman said. Ideally, that solution would involve public access, but at the very least, PHLT wants it protected by a conservation easement even if it does not become a nature preserve that is open to the public.


    Supporters can sign a petition at phlt.org and pledge money if they are interested in helping fund the purchase.

    Troutman noted that previous generations of some of the farming families in the Jonas area sold farmland to the Scouts.

    “They didn’t sell it for development. They sold it for the benefit of the boys,” she said.

    More at source:



  12. 15 minutes ago, qwazse said:

    A lot of words to say that the national leadership of both organizations  is intransigent. An article by Rothschild covered the sewing of I’ll will in he early years. My link to it is buried somewhere on these forums. I’d like to see another academic piece that would bring us into the 21st century. Bottom line, the national leaderships have done their calculus,  and it would literally require a POTUS or Congress to move them toward meaningful collaboration.

    Say like Congress requiring delivery of both organizations respective, charter required Report to the Nation to Congress at the same time and location? 

    • Upvote 1
  13. FYI, A collection of well researched postings on the early history of scouting in Seattle written by software engineer and historian Rob Ketcherside.

    An excerpt from Seattle's first patrol leaders

    Who the patrol leaders represented

    The patrol leaders represented a diversity of economic backgrounds, and children of immigrants versus descendants of colonists. But, they were all white boys.

    The religion of some of their families came up in newspapers or records, and in each case they were a denomination of Christianity. However, there was a rabbi involved in the founding of Scouting in Seattle in 1910, so within a month there were Jewish boys in troops as well.

    Ethnic diversity came within a decade, and it’s possible that the Collins Playfield group had non-white members that same year in September 1910.

    Gender diversity has taken much longer in Scouting in America. After 8 decades, girls joined BSA Venturing crews in 1995. Then, gay youth openly joined in 2013, and in 2017 transgender youth openly joined. Finally in 2018, the first girls joined BSA troops and packs. BSA troops are currently still separated by gender identification.


  14. Update: 12/14/2022

    Mark Chapman, 51, of New York was sentenced to two sentences of 12-20 years and 10-15 years, concurrently in prison. He was the first person convicted in the ongoing Boy Scouts of America (BSA) investigation.

    The sentences also include lifetime sex offender registration, lifetime electronic monitoring, and sex offender counseling.

    "Regardless how much time has passed, or how difficult the circumstances of a case may be, I am committed to seeing justice delivered for survivors of sexual assault," Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel said.  "Today’s sentencing sends a clear message that those who prey upon children will be punished. As our review of allegations made against adults in the Boy Scouts of America continues, I encourage those with information to come forward and share their story with the Department of Attorney General."

    More at sources:




  15. 10 hours ago, AltadenaCraig said:

    I worry we're running afoul fo B-P's admonition not to "trench the role of schools" with four(4) out of 21 merit badges emphasizing ... to use your words "concepts of understanding diversity, equity, etc".

    IMHO we've not only muddled those civics concepts with our overkill we've foregone other, more important lessons for which Scouting is uniquely suited.  "Nature" MB, for example, used to be an Eagle Required MB - but no more - and I'm sure other Scouters could list even better examples.

    Back in my day, Eagle required Nature merit badge and a badge selected from the Conservation group: Soil Conservation, Wildlife Management, Forestry. Bird Study was once Eagle required.

    I believe the program thought was to have an understanding of nature, threats to it (man, weather, insects), and conservation.  IMHO, Environmental Science is a smaller subset.

    Civics was a year long 9th grade course back then and scouts selected 3 out the 4 Citizenship badges...easy schoolwork. Perhaps Scouts should petition for the restoration of Civics (and Physics :)) in their school curriculum...now that would be a lesson in citizenship.

    Another $0.02,

    • Like 1
  16. 4 hours ago, Sentinel947 said:

    Totally agree with this. When somebody says "Leader" the streotype that comes to mind is the President, a Sports coach, or a military leader in the front of a group of soldiers storming the enemy. Scouting does tend to bias towards streotypical extroverts, because Scouting is a team and social activity. There is a stereotyping for youth and adult leaders to exhibit what we consider extroverted traits, but that's a cop out. These sterotypes get drawn on too much. We make excuses for people not just in Scouting, "They're an (Extrovert/Introvert) it's just the way they are." I don't believe that's true at all. Extroverts and introverts can both be excellent leaders and it is our challenge as adult volunteers to help our Scouts develop their own leadership style. When we try to create carbon copy clones of "leaders" in Scouting, we fail them. We have to equip our Scouts with values and tools to be leaders, and let them develop their own style. 

    My understanding of Extroverts vs Introverts is that Extroverts are energized by interactions with others, while it's overall a drain to introverts. That doesn't necessarily mean Introverts hate people, and it doesn't necessarily mean Introverts can't be outgoing and social when necessary. While extroverts are outgoing and social, that doesn't mean they can't be reserved and contemplative. They may need to be taught, and given opportunities to practice. 

    My Wood Badge Course Director was an incredible leader and an introvert. He communicates well, and I was inspired by his leadership, but he needed little moments at events and after events to decompress, wind down and have self care time. He could get up and speak publically just as well as any extrovert, but much of his leadership of our training team and participants was done quietly, and subtly 1 on 1. He set a tone and direction for our course to be successful. That is just as, if not moreso, effective leadership than the typical streotypical rah rah Extrovert. Meanwhile I'm a raging extrovert and come back from a Scout event fired up and feeling great. Basically my limit on human interaction is that eventually I need to sleep. 

    That being said, oftentimes Scouting is about pushing Scouts to grow and get out of their comfort zone, to try new things. This is true of encouraging (not requring, or bullying) Scouts who are afraid of heights to try the rock climinb wall. Same applies to extroverts/introvers in Scouting. We should be encouraging the shy and quiet Scout to put themselves out there in a safe environment and sing songs, participate in skits, and play games. That's growth for them, and they might find they actually enjoy it. At the least, it helps them participate with the team, and develop a comfort in social settings that willl be beneficial to them. An opportunity for the social butterfly extrovert is to actually not take the lead in some of those things. Give other people a chance. Make room for other peoples ideas and experiences to be shared.

    I struggle to listen to others and give people equal time to speak. I enjoy talking. As a youth and adult, Scouting has offered me opportunities to practice good social skills, and look for opportunities to encourage others, and to bite my tongue and let other people have the spotlight. That was/is growth for me as a stereotypical extrovert. 

    Introverts' box is "behind the curtain" and maybe background vocals.  We introverts excelled more in the writing and production which complemented the stage presence and theatrical talent of extroverts.

    So at the start a summer camp week, the camp songmaster would sing a familiar song, e.g., It Ain't Gonna Rain No More


    Oh, it ain't gonna rain no more, no more
    It ain't gonna rain no more
    How in the heck can I wash around my neck
    if it ain't gonna rain no more

    He then challenged patrols to write new verses... and were off using the Patrol Method to write verses and sing them later in the week.

    Here are some familiar verses at https://www.boyscouttrail.com/content/song/it_aint_gonna_rain_no_more-446.asp

    For your amusement, I somewhat remember our efforts from back in the day.

    My bunk was all netted

    No bugs could come inside

    But I completely forgetted

    That bears like bunks like myde


    My patrol all liked me

    Always asking about my sister

    Until the eventful day

    She dated an Army enlister



    My 2 verses,


    • Upvote 2
  17. 11 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

    Scouts are supposed to be active.  21 merit badges and too many are redundant with school or just boring paperwork.  Now, we have yet another.  Four citizenship MBs is just too many.  ... Five actually ... family, society, nation, world, society?  What next?  Universe?  ... Citizen of the Ecology?  

    IMHO,  community service projects may be a better approach to developing  good neighbors and citizens, i.e., part of the program as opposed to part of advancement.

    My $0.02,

    • Upvote 1
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