ps56k
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Posts posted by ps56k
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I've been going over our troop's past Eagle COH docs and also have browsed the web looking for info to reconcile some wording conflicts.... Challenge vs Charge vs Promise vs Oath
Eagle Scout Challenge - 5 obligations listed in text -
this appears to be distributed with Eagle Award packets BSA 58-900, but I've never seen one in person.... is it actually printed and referenced as "The Eagle Scout Challenge" ?
Eagle Scout Charge - some intro text followed by the Promise/Oath... just local text ?
Eagle Scout Promise/Oath - which to call it ?
I guess the biggest confusion came from some websites that have the "Challenge" text, but title it as the "Charge" - we will ignore them, and go with "Challenge" ?
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well - as I've been told -
The "SCOUT" ends at age 18... along with the "Scout version" of the uniform... with rank patches, MB sash, etc
My entire point is that regarding Scouts who are 18yrs old... or recently older...
Therefore, his "uniform" could be that of an adult leader, which of course is a "uniform", but the entire presentation is totally different.... knots vs patches, no sash, etc
Again - at a COH, especially an ECOH, what's the "rule" for scouts over 18 ?
Scouting is probably the only organization where you can't wear your old uniform as part of your heritage, or to reflect your alumni status..... vs HS, College, Army, etc
(This message has been edited by ps56k)
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We've had several of these cases,
Eagle Scout Ceremony with scouts that are 18,
and in my opinion - I don't agree with the decisions regarding not wearing of the uniform...
The Eagle ceremony is the classic opportunity to showcase what scouting is all about. To have an 18yr old Eagle Scout standing up front, in full uniform makes a powerful statement.
To have these young men "dress-down" to a common suit does nothing to stimulate the other scouts in the audience, as well as the the other invited guests....
In my opnion, Scouting does itself a major dis-service to not have "alumni 18yr old scouts" or those appearing in a advancement ceremony wearing their full Scout uniform.
Actually - I was thinking of an Eagle ceremony with some of the older (18+) scouts in full uniform and the entire ceremony, color guard, and presenters were all in uniform and Eagle Scouts...
As I tell my son - you may have "been" on the swim team, "been" on the track team, or a member of the National Honor Society - but you will always "BE" AN EAGLE SCOUT... present tense - forever -
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We just started working with our older scouts (Crew)
with regard to them getting their Scuba Open Water certification.
Here is a Scuba forum,
that has an area for discussing Scouting & Scuba
http://www.scubaboard.com/forumdisplay.php?f=204
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We have been using Troopmaster for awhile, and last summer upgraded to the Troopmaster 2005. We usually created a backup and emailed it around to the necessary adults.
This last fall we added the DotNet option, which is basically a remote file "checkin-checkout" storage area for downloading & uploading the Troopmaster database backup file.
Anyway - we also discovered the vendor has a discussion forum which you might find helpful.
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we use the printout from Troopmaster for the MB's vs hand writing them on an advancement form.
This was regarding two advancement forms for:
Eagle Palm (her son)
First Class (her son)
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I wonder why there is a signature line with a line for "title".
The Advancement Committee book - #33088D -
on page 29 lists the basic reqs of a BOR
which has from 3 to 6 members of the Troop Committee.... not just available parents.
Yeah - it's counter-producttive, but that's the black and white.
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Quick questions on the classical BOR -
I was elected to pick up the awards
for our upcoming COH.
One thing that came up at the Scout Store
was the signature on the Advancement Forms
was of a mom of a Scout.
http://www.scouting.org/forms/34403.pdf
Ok - review & comment time....
(1) We have the same person acting as BOR chair,
sorta like a position on the committee.
Does this "position" actually exist ?
She thought she had to sign every advancement form on the left line where is asks for "title".
(2) She signs all the advancement forms,
and precides over all the BOR's.
Is this how you do it,
or do you just need 3 bodies - and they sign the form ?
Who is the "chairman" as listed in the procedures copied below...
"Troops/Teams. All Boy Scouts or Varsity Scouts ready for advancement must appear personally before a board of review composed of at least three members. An advancement report must
be sent to the council service center immediately following each board of review. This report must be signed by at least three members of the board of review, including its chairman.
(3) She had her son listed on the BOR advancement form,
with 2 other signatures
(4) Can any parent be grabbed for a BOR
that does not have their son,
or do they have to be only registered committee folks ?
Seems a waste,
as we would have to "register" them just for a BOR ?
Any other comments ?
(This message has been edited by ps56k)
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Was at the scout store today,
and I guess with all the structured scouting forms, these are just messed up a little -
Mile Swim - no app, have card & patch
Snorkeling - app, card, patch
Scuba - app, no card, but have patch
So -
for Mile Swim - present card, get patch
Also - since nothing is available to hand in, they suggested adding the names to the advancement form...
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We have our COH coming up, and will be presenting a few extra aquatics awards from summer camp -
BSA Mile Swim
BSA Snorkeling
BSA Scuba
The Mile Swim folks already have their card.
The Snorkeling folks already have their card.
The Scuba folks have a paper form.
So - for consistency, to get their cards and patches, I went looking for the application forms for all three....
I could not find an application form for the Mile Swim, only the other 2 awards.
Is there an application form for Mile Swim ?
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here's an update on our 14 yr old Scout...
who has gone to JLTC, wanted to staff at JLTC, but had a conflict with Jamboree,
and melted at Jambo 2005 -
Here is an email that was exchanged within our Troop.
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He has had over a year to work on 2 MB's + Eagle Project.
Much to my disappointment,
I think he has succumb to the 14+ syndrome.
You reach that point where you have achieved First Class,
and all the MB's that are served up on a platter via troop or MBU clinics,
but still need some things on your own.... but have never done that on your own.
Also - there is no need for you to attend any Troop/Crew meetings or outings
since those yield no "results" for your advancement... why bother.
And the external influences and older troop peers do not reinforce interest
or attendance to even those special events like COH's.
When was the last time the troop has seen Life Scouts (soon to be awarded Eagle) Alex, Nick, Adam, Will, or Ted - without having to kick them out for causing trouble.
Who else portrayed the Scout image better than Paul M. when he was wearing his full uniform at COHs.
He no longer gets anything from Scouting,
and when he has tried with teaching camping skills or being SPL,
he has done it alone with the rest of the leadership team off in a back room
or fighting with sticks....
Now - he is doing things that are appreciated, recognized,
and building his self esteem/image.
He is ref'ing soccer games for the Park District every Saturday,
swimming on the YMCA swim team (last year he made District & State)
and later will swim on the NNHS swim team.
In the spring, he will try to leverage his 1st, 2nd, 3rd track records for NNHS.
Plus - emotionally, he has gone thru a spring time girlfriend, a summer time girlfriend, etc...
Sad to say - Scouting at this point has little to offer him...
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Nope - he actually worked for and received all the blue/red 2005 rockers to go around his youth jambo 2005 patch.
These he found while walking - they are "vertical" with a very slightly concave top as if to be fan'd out, or bottom round, from a central round patch.
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our scout came home from the Jamboree with a couple of small vertical segments/rockers that we can't identify....
Any ideas on what they are ??
They are vertical strips about 1/4" wide and 1" long - with these words :
Passport Search
Patrol Flags
Conservation Good Turn
Patrol Challenge
Arena Show
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hey, I don't mind - I like patches
but in this case...
there's no room to put the POR patch !
like SPL, ASPL, PL, or SM, ASM, etc -
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just an update on our personal situation and observation....
Our Scout is 14, Life, and was involved with NYLT staff, Jamboree, along with being SPL, ASPL, along the way. Well, this month (May 2005) was just too much and he has basically turned off Scouting. The JYLT/NYLT had 2 campouts, and the Jamboree had 1 (same weekend as NYLT), along with other things going on. He had not been to a Troop meeting in weeks, as his Track team had their meets on the same night as the Troop meetings.
So, he finally just said enough... this month...
He QUIT the NYLT as a staff member.
He QUIT going to Troop meetings.
He lost interest in Jamboree.
I can now see how things look from the "dark side".
He needs to feel some reason for doing an activity. He is on a swim team, a track team, was on a soccer team, gets A's in school, and is a really knowledgeable Scout, etc....
Swim team - he is fastest in his group
Track team - he took 3rd in area conference for 110, 200, and short sprints
Soccer team - quit... too hard to run all the time
Troop - hmmmmm - as you get older (14) you have all your skills, you just need to chase MB's, and only have 6months of a POR... If you keep going to meetings, most of the time, you have to GIVE to others as a SPL, ASPL, Guide, etc. The key is that his may not be enough of an incentive to go to the meeting. Whadda think, if you go, you have to WORK as a leader, vs just goofing off, or not going at all - DUH - tough choice -
He tried the leader path, but had no critical mass of peers. His age group peers were the usual kids goofing around, and he really didn't have any Scouting peers that had the skill level and knowledge he did. So, he was an island.
I'd seen the same thing happen to each of the SPL scouts - they were an island, and could not strike the fire needed to create the critical mass of knowledge, interest, and direction....
So - they became the Life Scout ghost patrol.
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yeah... when I was a Scout, we had so much more in the Scouting Handbook - now, it's so watered down and so many old skills have been stripped out that the Scouts don't even know these other topics even existed... Also, in todays world, I guess many of those topics were tagged as obsolete. Morse, signalling, tracking, trail signs, etc - Today - if you want a random chat with a person, try a chat room, or even a VoIP phone call like on Skype, or any of the IM services. And yeah, they have FRS radios, so a walkie-talkie (HT) is no big deal anymore. And video, same deal as a webcam now, camera phones, etc...
Tough to compete with today's mainstream technology.
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ok..... When did the "let's get bigger" start
Instead of using the standard size CSP, ours (and others) have adopted a taller 3" JSP.
And to sew below that, our troop numbers, also have a design which doubles the normal height from just having numbers, to having numbers + a graphic which makes this patch also 3" in height.
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I've posted several different threads here over the past couple of frustrating years. They pretty much chronicle our failing vision of what has become Scouting. As I've mentioned, we have a 14yr old Life Scout with 2 MB's + project left for Eagle... and he has been: SPL, ASPL, PL, and is now the Scout QM, along with being the only Troop Scout to be heading to Jamboree and also to JLTC/NYLT Staff for 2005. He is also in OA, and on Track, Soccer, and Swim Teams.
So - he has reached a final plateau in the Troop. There are about 20+ Life ghost scouts on the Troop Roster that have not been seen in years (many topics on this), don't come to meetings, outings, etc... So, our son really sees the difference like at the NYLT and Jamboree meetings where everyone "wants" to be there, which is very different than at a Troop meeting.
It appears more and more that Scouting is a place for boys to come/join where they may not quite fit into other groups - I guess this is both good and bad. It seems like we get more of the boys that need some social help, and the 14+ high school scouts (20+ Life scouts) just vanish what with school, sports, and other interests.
So - is the Troop there, like a charity, counselor, or shelter, to offer sanctuary to these drifting Scouts as they come and go, wear their uniform or not, attend or not, and we are to be grateful for helping to retain a Scout. Great for the Scout, with no expectations, demands, or responsibilities except to himself. But what about the effect on the Troop - can't count on ANY scout being at the meeting or campout, being a leader, knowing the skills, etc.
Or - should the Troop be like a school sports team? Let's have the same level of rules.... wear the uniform, attend meetings ("practice"), attend the games ("campouts"), learn the playbook ("scout skills"), work with the rookies ("POR"), etc... And then you have the adults - as others have mentioned - always wanting to jump in and save the situation, meeting, whatever. After going thru this same "groundhog day" scenario for several years, it gets frustrating at re-teaching new PLC, because there are no older Scouts to act as mentors, along with the revolving door of uniformed leaders that each have their own agenda.
After Jamboree we'll see how our Life'r does. He has shown no interest in his final personal advancement toward Eagle, and little interest at once again being one of the few older scouts actually trying to lead the Troop.
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the more important issue - is getting past the airport security checkpoint... we started another thread for that topic.
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Every April, Geocachers around the world get together and clean up their local parks. It's just one way we can contribute to the maintenance of our outdoor spaces and to say "thanks" to the land managers that help to make our parks a great place for Geocaching. Learn about how you can start your own CITO event, or just how you and your family can CITO every time you go geocaching.
This year, Trimble has partnered with Groundspeak to help sponsor Cache In Trash Out Day.
Trimble Outdoors has 3 GPS related items for a general user -
1 - GPS software for the Nextel phones
2 - PC Planner software for mapping out a Trip, or importing cache locations
www.trimbleoutdoors.com/cito_geocaching.aspx
3 - Website for posting Trips and Search Trips
http://www.trimbleoutdoors.com
Of course, the GPS software, the Trip Planner software,
and the Web Trip sharing are all purchased/bundled items.
Here's a sample Trip of a couple of local caches.
www.trimbleoutdoors.com/TripViewFrameSetGuest.asp?TripID=2021
Trimble Outdoors is offering the PC desktop Planner for 90 days.
You can also visit the forums, if you have any questions...
www.trimbleoutdoors.com/forums/default.asp
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In looking over some Scouting and related websites,
I was curious what screen size folks are mostly using ?
Anyway, was wondering what folks are using,
and do they run full-screen browser, or reduced ?
Here's my grouping -
Dell desktop - 800x600
Dell laptop - 1024 x 768
Toshiba laptop - 800x600
IBM thinkpad - 1024x768
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here's the link for US passports -
http://travel.state.gov/passport/passport_1738.html
I'm debating getting our 14yr old Jamboree scout a passport for $87 and waiting the 6-8weeks, or just going to our local driver's license station for a State of Illinois issued photo ID for $20 all on the same day at the DMV...
http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/drivers/idcards.html
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tnx - that did it !!
I'll have to remember that for when the usual 30 vs 31 offset happens -
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> Trimble now has an online forum for their Nextel GPS software and Trip
> Planner -
> http://www.trimbleoutdoors.com/forums/
>
> Also - the website now properly displays Trip photo icons using the Firefox web broswer.
>
> > For those that might be interesting in an operational GPS phone,
> > with a normal readout, along with some new desktop software....
> >
> > I have been working with a Nextel i860 camera phone
> > and the Trimble Outdoors GPS software.
> > http://www.trimbleoutdoors.com/aboutsilver.aspx
> >
> > I also have the Trimble desktop Planner loaded on a laptop,
> > and thought I would offer a place to anchor
> > any questions about the Trimble GPS or Planner software.
> > http://www.trimbleoutdoors.com/adventureplanner.aspx
> >
> > And lastly, the Trips are also available for public viewing
(settable
> > option).
> > Here is one trip with some local Chicago area caches....
> http://www.trimbleoutdoors.com/TripViewFrameSetGuest.asp?TripID=1156
> >
Eagle COH - Charge/Challenge/Promise/Oath
in Advancement Resources
Posted
tnx - I've seen and have all similar words for our Eagle COH.
My main topic and subject of the discussion, is where all of these texts tend to mix the title words, and therefore it becomes very difficult to track which words go with which content.
ie - You call it your Charge - but use "I challenge" in the text.
Also - the Eagle Scout "swearing in" you call the "pledge" which now makes it a count of 3 - Promise, Oath, Pledge...
All in all - it's hard to reconcile what is meant by reviewing past program handouts (not the full script) where you have one line entry for the ceremony element....
Eagle Scout Promise ->
or
Eagle Scout Oath ->
or
Eagle Scout Charge ->
it's just an issue when attempting to bring all the parts together like a kit - and you have the basic kit inventory, but you have no idea what is now meant by "insert Eagle Scout Charge"
But lastly - we now have in our hands a couple of previous scripts and can break out the elements and use them as needed, now that we have the entire doc, along with the supporting program handouts.