ParkMan

That won't be enough for the people who believe co-education is the be-all and end-all.

But it would remove one of the most compelling arguments - the inability of girls to access the program.

Why not just have the BSA start a Girl Scout division that follows the same program as the Boy Scouts? Then girls could earn the same badges as the boys - including Eagle.

We had a similar role too. It's interesting to me how the different courses approach things.

Our AV person did a TON of work. He had to manage mulitiple projectors/screens, a sound system, multiple wireless and wired microphones. He had to do sound checks for all presenters. Some microphones were good for some presenters, but not others. He checked every presentation - many of which had embedded media. He figured out background music at key points - which really helped with the atmosphere.

A very important role! In fact, in our course, it's a role you worked up to. It took at least three courses to work up to it.

Would something like this be a council decision? National perhaps isn't requiring then, but councils can continue to do so?

Congrats!

I think I learned more being a staffer than I did participating in the course. It was a true highlight of my time as a Scouter.

Enjoy!!!

If units know how to manage themselves then district becomes irrelevant. If district wants to black ball me from the training committee, great. Nothing keeps me from offering my training to Pack and Troop leaders to help their units. So all you need to do is "end run" the district. They'll be gone in a short period anyway.

But, it's very true.  Both the CS pack & BS troop we've been involved with have been strong enough that the district doesn't add much to the equation.

It took me a few years to figure this one out.  I've come to understand that the district is really a peer organization to the units.  The district provides support to the units, but they are not the "boss" of the units.  Don't like what the DE tells you - just ignore him.  The unit belongs to the CO - end of story.  Your status as a volunteer rests with the institutional head (and by extension the COR).   Sure - in extreme cases, the Council could revoke your membership.  But, in reality no council is going to run around pulling Scouter's memberships because they ignored the DE.  It's not worth the SE's time.

But, the last thing I'd do is fight with the DE.  If your motivation is getting the district to help your unit - I wouldn't bother.  Just focus your energy on your unit.

Ok - I'll admit to being amused if someone has indeed pranked the councils here.

In our troop, we maintain a list much like what Col. Flagg describes.  Yes, as a result, we end up getting all our merit badges counselled in-house, but it works well.  Trying to navigate a district list is an unnecessary hassle.

If there was really interest in making this work in districts, the BSA would do:

- encourage every troop to identify a merit badge coordinator.

- have the troop merit badge coordinator manage the list of counsellors from their troop families.

- have the district advancement chair work with the troop merit badge coordinators to assemble a consolidated list from amongst the troops in the district.  

Plan it well ahead of time, get the families to make a commitment, and then purchase tickets when they become available. Don't try to guess how many.

But a good troop should be able to absorb and train less experienced adults.

Senior leaders should have had the knowledge of how to plan for adventure passed down to them. They in turn pass it along to the next folks.

My troop is somewhere in the middle. The biggest problem we seem to have are adults stuck doing the same trips over and over again .

In my neck of the woods, Troops are very different. If my son's troop had a weak program, I would have no problems moving to another troop. I think a lot of scouts would benefit from moving troops after the first year.

In your case, I won recommend finding a role that could bring about some of the changes you'd like to see. Show others your ideas working and it's easier to get others to go along.

I'm the CC of a troop of about 70 boys. Our use of patrols is poor. I get lots of people willing me things are broken and how to fix it. The reality is that if I knew how to fix it, I would have already.

I wouldn't sweat that you are newer. You don't need to be the SM, takingon a smaller role where you could impact things is a big part of starring the process of change.

I've been both a CM and Pack CC.  I'm a troop CC today.

One thing I've learned in this time is that a good CM/CC relationship is important.  If those two people are not working together, problems occur.  It seems like I'm talking with or emailing the CM (or in my case SM today) 3-4 times a week.  We're constantly in contact.  Do we always agree - nope.  Do I probably micromanage in some places - I'm sure I do.  However, I know what's important to the CM/SM and he knows what's important to me.  Reading your post, it sounds like that might not be happening here.

If things are really bad, then go have a friendly drink with the CC and find out what's up.  Why is the CC doing this?

My guess is that it is either:

1- the CC has a view of how she thinks things should work and you're not in line with that

2- the CC is hearing complaints from some families and is trying to deal with it

3- the CC really is a power hungry volunteer.

Though I listed #3, I'd be a bit surprised if that's the case.  Sure it happens, but I don't think it's usually the case.  More likely, it's #1 or #2 and the CC is trying to "correct" something.  Now, it's entirely possible the CC is trying to correct something that's not broken.  But if you and she are at odds, then she isn't talking with you about it and can't really understand what you're trying to do.

I don't mind council donations.  The council provides services that my pack & troop take advantage of.  I see my council donation as providing for scouting as a movement.  On top of that, I regularly benefit from having a district executive and I know those donations in part pay his salary.  I'm happy to contribute to that.  However, I know that others disagree with me on payments to council- which is fine too.

I'm also fine with the military donations myself.  The only point I had before was that a pack should not need to justify their fundraising by saying "a part will go to the troops."  If a unit feels that they need to do that, I would suggest that they don't need to do that.  That this particular unit wants to do it and made a deliberate choice to do that is fine by me. 

While I applaud the intent, I too think they're perfectly fine to take all the donations and spend it on the program.  People give money to the scouts to give money to the scouts.  If I were a visitor to that unit, I'd tell the adults that don't need to feel pressure to turn over donations like that.  Sometimes these things happen because a well meaning adult has an idea like this and people don't want to argue against it.

But, if this is something the unit really wants to do - it's fine.  Part of the program is teaching the scouts how to make good choices.  If the scouts see that 10% (or whatever donations are) of Popcorn money is turned around and forwarded to the troops, there is value to that for the scouts.

 Part of the adventure is figuring out how much "backyard fun" you can have with meager earnings and a few pieces of cloth.

When I think of thrifty, I think of this.

Today the monthly camping trip is usually at least $30 a pop.  We use a formula of $5 per scout per meal plus overhead for fees & gas.  When my son shops, he never thinks about saving money.  It's mom who teaches him about smart shopping.  Her meals come in closer to $3 a person.

I'd almost rather he learn the lesson my wife teaches him than about fundraising.

I agree.  I'd recommend spending your time getting the new volunteers ready for the transition.  Be ready to hit the ground running.  Once you all take over, run a quality program and have a great pack.

When I was a scout, you could earn 4 merit badges at summer camp.  Now, our troop has boys come home with 6.  I told my son to just sign up for 4 - have some free time to just have fun.

Different boys have different priorities and interests.  Some like lots of merit badges.  Some like to just hang out.  Others want some kind of adventure and doing something.  The challenge of summer camps ought to be how they can appeal to the different kinds of boys out there.

A trip to Disney World is discretionary?  Somehow I missed that note 

Like many things, I think this is really a question of where you are as a troop.  If you've got a world class, boy led troop, then yes - having the boys lead and execute a fundraising campaign sounds great.  They learn a new skill, get to show some leadership, get to apply some elbow grease to making their dreams a reality.  

But, if your troop isn't quite there yet, then I think I'd be perfectly fine with having this be adult led.  For example - my son's in a good troop, but it's got a long way to go to being truly boy led. More often than not, I'm underwhelmed with what adults challenge the scouts do for the program parts of scouting.  So, I'd rather have us focus on getting the boys to be stronger troop leaders than worrying about organizing fundraising.  

Participating in fundraising has a lower bar.  If you've got a couple of fundraising activities/events - having scouts participate in those seems fine.  If they're helping at an event, it's like a service project that benefits the troop.  If they're selling a few items (ex. popcorn) getting a scout to sell a few items builds some skills.  

I'd just watch the level of effort here.  Spending 2 months focusing largely on popcorn can be a distraction from building program.  If you're troop is humming, then no big sweat.  If it's like many of ours, then I think those 2 months could be better spent.

I look at the question of surplus as really separate from the question of program.  Plan the program you want and then find a way to pay for it that lets you not have to worry too much about the financials.

For example - as a troop, we follow a pay as you go model.  If a scout wants to go on a camping trip, he contributes the cost towards that event.  Some camping trips we come out ahead, sometimes we have a loss.  In the end it works out.  Our annual dues are modest.  We purchase badges and other fixed costs from the dues.  We have scholarships for those who cannot afford it.  This makes it easier for us.  We don't have to make a large budget work out.  We don't get to February and say "no more trips, we're out of money".

We have a pretty healthy bank account.  We keep it that way so that we have the ability to respond when needed.  Generally, our priorities are:

- have emergency funds available should sometihng happen.  i.e., if we've got the Troop at Philmont and we need to get some people home quickly, we can.

- pay upfront fees for trips.

- purchase/upkeep equipment as needed

If you tried to build up a balance quickly, then I'd agree - it would impact the current program.  But, when you add a bit to the account every year, it eventually gets there.  Our approach is to run cash positive every year and let it build up incrementally.

Not all GS troops as the same size as a patrol. Some have found that a larger structure that is similar to a CS pack or BS troop works for them.

There is a local GS troop that's about the same size as our pack. We regularly do joint activities - including campouts. It works out great.

The boys & girls get along fine. Some families have kids in both the pack & troop - it works out great for them. We've been doing this for years and have had a lot of success with it.

I was a Cubmaster for many years and now have moved on to my son's troop. I now sit on the troop committee and still sit on the pack's committee.

My only recommendation for you is to work to build a bridge to the pack. Visit their leader's meetings. Visit their pack meetings. Get to know the leaders. Odds are that they are a bunch of dedicated volunteers just trying to make it work. There may have been a problem in the past, but work to get past it.

When you talk to the pack people really listen to them. Most really don't understand boy scouts - but also do not want to be told "just wait" or "trust us". Instead, find a way to show them what you're trying to do. Expose them to some role models within the troop, etc. Invest in them. As a bonus, most of those cub leaders will later become boy scout leaders. The better your relationship with them, the more likely they are to be leaders in your troop.

14 ASM's and 15 committee members? That seems like quite a lot' date=' even with 90 Scouts. And of the 15 committee members, not one is the activities coordinator? Do you have an advancement coordinator?[/quote']

 

It's historical. The SM and prior CC have been here for about 15 years. They both would routinely put in 20 hours a week, not including campouts. About 10 years ago, it was a troop of 35-40 boys. Over a decade, it grew larger. So, as the Troop grew and new adults showed up, they'd invite them to be leaders. So, we ended up with a bunch of leaders, but not necessarily people filling specific roles.

 

We don't have an activities coordinator because the prior CC liked to do that himself. That's also why we don't have a membership coordinator and fundraising coordinator. For example - we do someone serving as popcorn kernel and someone who handles camp cards, but there isn't a person who watches over fundraising as a whole.

 

We do have an advancement coordinator. He focuses on boards of review and Eagle applications. We have another person who coordinates merit badge classes. The SM likes to handle all other advancement items (advancement reports, purchasing awards). We have a wonderful treasurer, troop secretary, great troop webmaster, and an active COR. I did neglect to mention that some of our ASMs are very involved with organizing our OA involvement as well. Many of these folks are models within our district.

 

I didn't mean to suggest that we don't have enough adults - we are incredibly fortunate to have lots of adult volunteers. In our case, the Troop has evolved a structure that just didn't fit the usual model. I suspect it's because the prior CC wanted to build the best troop he could and was willing to put in 20 hours a week to handle so much of it himself.

 

As the new CC (and one who is not willing to put in 20 hours a week), my challenge is how to work with this. My gut feel is that we need to rearrange folks a bit, but I've not figured out yet how to do that yet.

Well, that's a whole thread unto itself. It's interesting as a brand new CC coming into such a large troop.

Before I comment, let me just say that it's a very active troop with a number of dedicated volunteers - I'm very impressed with what they've accomplished and their dedication. That said - would I have structured it the same way - no, probably not. But they've evolved to where they are and there is a method to it.

Basically, adult involvement breaks down as:

- 4 people - Asst. Scoutmasters with specific roles. Two who lead the new scout program. Two who serve as summer camp SM (we go twice).

~10 people - general Asst. Scoutmasters. They attend campouts, might serve as adult contingent leader for specific trips.

~15 people - general troop committee members. They attend troop committee meetings, discuss issues, help with specific projects as directed. Some take of specific roles such as maintaining the troop email list or website, serve as treasurer, merit badge coordinator. We have good help for specific support tasks. Right now, we're lacking on the function owner side (such as an activities coordinator or membership coordinator).

This doesn't count the folks who serve as merit badge counselors.

I'm recently the CC of my son's troop (about 90 boys). We've got about 30 adult leaders.

My understanding is that the path to adult involvement includes:

- get adults camping. Have them experience your program first hand. This helps the to see what how it works, what you need, and how they could help. When they get on the trip, give them something they can do - and be successful at.

- identify small, specific tasks that they can do to help and then ask them. Plug them in to be an adult on a hike, support the scouts when they organize a small event, etc.

- develop mentors. Get some friendly faces (that are not already overwhelmed) that can show a new parent the ropes.

Personally, I think a part of the reasons troops struggle with this is that it really shouldn't be up to the CC to do this. To get a robust set of parents involved, you need a culture where adults are encouraged to get involved. Existing adults should welcome new parents. Adults who have been leaders for a couple of years should be looking for ways to get parents to help them.