ParkMan

I think it's very common knowledge that the national organization of the BSA is the midst of 600 sexual abuse lawsuits and active bankruptcy planning. I'm sure they'd love to manage these as common occurrences, but I can accept that they are not common occurrences.

I'd encourage you to look at it from the other side. The BSA has worked very hard to establish itself as an organization that takes youth protection very seriously at all times. That means we have to embrace youth protection rules even when it's inconvenient. Yes, I grant that having to provide two deep registered adult leadership for Eagle projects is difficult, but protecting youth is more important.

Sorry to append to my own post. From the article, I think she's a member of Suffolk County Council. On their website, they have an Eagle Scout Preparation Guide. It's at: https://www.sccbsa.org/files/21999/Eagle-Scout-Preparation-Guide In there, the only reference to Eagle Boards of Review says: So I have to imagine that she properly filed the application. Wither the council isn't forwarding the application or their district advancement committee is following instructions and not scheduling the board of review. I wasn't aware of rule 8.0.0.2 quoted in the article. It say

Agreed. It would strike me that these are the key passages: I have to imagine that the valid ways to delay a EBOR are: 1. The council advancement committee declares the process is that they schedule them and then decide not to schedule one for girls who request them. 2. The council does not verify the application because she is a girl From the rules I see, these are the only valid ways I could find.

Fully agree and well said. I think National's been pretty consistent on this. If it looks like a Scout activity, two deep registered adult leadership over 21.

FWIW - I only mentioned it because I had to really work as a pack & troop break the cycle of our other volunteers constantly bashing district, council, national, OA, Wood Badge, etc... It was like whatever happened, we liked to blame someone. Guess I'm a little more tuned into it.

Thanks - I asked for a reason and this is a valid one. i.e. - if National had created a different culture, then benefactors would have helped us out of this situation. That's very fair. Personally, my gut tells me that the change in giving is more due to a general trend against faith in organized institutions. I've always thought it's due to the combination of Watergate and the rise in myriad news/analysis sources we have today. With countless TV, cable, and internet analysis channels, everyone is criticizing everything today. That has a net effect of eroding public support for most

For what it's worth. In this case I think we have two choices: Describe this all as some kind of colossal screw up and blame national. i.e., "clearly these guys at national were not paying attention and let this turn into a big mess." Be transparent as best possible and provide an honest update. i.e., "National is under tremendous financial uncertainty and pressure. While I don't know the specifics, it sure appears that something unusual is keeping them from setting the fee for 2020. National is aware how important it is and hopefully we'll get it soon." Myself, I try to d

How do you blame national for this fee increase? Everything I have read - here and in other places - clearly indicates that the reason for this fee increase is the increase in costs by the underwriters of our insurance program. The fees in this insurance program are growing because of lawsuits filed as the result of abuse cases that predate just about all of our involvement in Scouting. My understanding is that a significant reason for these current lawsuits is the extensions of state laws on the time frame upon which lawsuits needed to be filed. Further, it appears that many of thes

I'm not for a moment suggesting I'm in favor of an increase. Merely that predictions of doom and gloom as a result simply strike me as a bit strong. You make a fair point. Again, we all have financial lines that we cannot cross. My gut tells me that if a family is that engaged in Scouting, they probably see a lot of value in ir. My gut tells me that a 10% increase in the cost of participating in something that spend that much time in is likely to be absorbed. I'd make a distinction here. Is the national organization of the BSA worth $200 a year for a family of four? No, I would

To be fair to those families. When someone joins anything - be it simming, scouting, soccer, whatever - they do a little cost/budget/benefit analysis. When you start changing the costs, families inherently are going to re-do that analysis in their mind. For some they really can't afford the new amount. For some, they just dislike having to pay more and so have a lot of frustration when they are asked to pay more. Of others, they look at the new amount and think "no problem". As I mentioned in @Cubmaster Pete's thread - based on my back of the napkin calculations, this will increas

What an awesome!!!! idea. What a brain dead decision by the SE - doh! From hearing these stories, I realize that I'm in a pretty decent council with empowered volunteers. There's got to be some kind of national advisory board that hears these stories and establishes policy for SEs. Here's hoping...

Why not do this anyways? As a UC you're a district level Scouter. Invent the award locally and start promoting it. Honestly, in our district folks would care way more about a local award than JTE.

You are way too generous. Don't need a lawyer because everyone will like us. We don't need any of them new fangled high adventure bases. There's an old camp down by the river - give the boys some twine and a tarp. Merit badge updates - the ones we have are fine, we don't need updates Uniforms - we can get some American made military surplus stuff for real cheap. Ombudsman - don't need one of those - we'll just hire trustworthy folks. Someone to handle donations - nope, leave that to the units. Phone calls/emails - that's why we pay the SE. Someo

Seems like this is the struggle though. Topics like this continually blame the BSA & professionals. Yet, they are the ones most actively pushing growth & membership. If we don't want to cede our roles to them, it seems me need to assert control of our own destinies. I suppose we could just back off all this talk of membership growth, scale way back on professionals, reduce Cub Scouts to three years, merge councils down to a few mega councils per state, and then keep only those camps that are needed. I'd be fine with that myself. However, I don't think it would address the ro

I think we're about 95% in agreement here. Yes - pros & volunteers alike need to be talking Yes - we need fewer bloated committees Yes - we really can get rid of much of the "corporate" scouting I think I've said this before in other topics. But, one of the best things for Scouting would be for our volunteers to assume more ownership for what is happening in their community. If you're pack isn't growing - then figure out why If you district doesn't have a camporee - then start one If you feel dis-empowered by the professionals, then buy them a c

I agree that there are things that National can do better. But, as a long time leader I don't think this is all national's fault. Little of the costs that we incur in Scouting are directly nationally impacted. Yes, we could get cheaper awards. Yes, we could have lower national fees. But, as we talked earlier in the thread, about 17% of our parents spending went to national fees. Add awards to that and maybe it's 25%. At the Scouts BSA level, it's even less - 7% in national fees. Maybe that amount again in awards. If we look around at other things - cost has gone up everywhere.

I don't expect the same here. A Cub Scout program today costs about $80 a year on average here. This includes $33 a year for BSA dues. The average family spends another $60 on a uniform every few years. The probably add another $120 to pay for camping trips ($20 per person for Scout & parent twice a year). This nets about $200 a year for Cub Scouts in my area. A Scouts BSA program costs about $80 a year on average here (including National dues). The same family spends about $100 on a uniform every few years. They add about $300 for summer camp and add another $200 for campi

Agreed as well. Lest I seem like I'm downplaying this struggle - I'm not. In fact, I think that unit <-> council relationships have really been strained and that's a big problem for Scouting.

I'm not really sure what to make of that comment. Again, I'm suggesting is that we put disagreements with council & national in some context. It would be very easy for me to get myself very demoralized by all of this - but I chose not to because I'm pursuing a bigger, much more important goal. That goal is bringing Scouting to the youth in my community.

I know this is a national forum and that we all have different levels of financial ability. I make no expectations of what people should pay into this program. I'd encourage you to sit down with your other adult leaders and review your expenses. I agree that four fundraisers a year is too many already. Maybe you could make some different choices that will help you keep costs down somewhere else.

I think a lot about the movie "Follow Me Boys". Whether it was historically accurate or not, it reminds me that Scouting is really about the youth experience. When I was a kid, I knew councils & national existed - but they were irrelevant to me. In my decade Scouting, most of it has been as either a Cubmaster or Troop Committee Chair. In those experiences, I've never really worried about what the council or national thinks or wants. Both of those groups are really just here to provide me support as I run my program. I want to write a sticky post for this forum that says "Re

I know not quite the question you're asking, but... I'd plan a fundraiser. Even if the BSA fees doubled (or tripled), I think it is still payable. I also do not think the services of the BSA national organization warrant such a fee. However, I think that the overall value I get from being involved with the BSA is significant. I think it will be a harder to recruit into these other organizations and question their ability to provide a similar level of infrastructure to the youth I serve. So while they me be more economical, I don't think I'd jump over the amounts being discussed.

I'm guessing $5 a month - $60 a year. From everything I hear, $33 to $48 is too small a jump.

National needs to fix the Scouting image problem before this will be doable. I predict at most 0.1% participation.