pargolf44067

I received the same email yesterday.

I had heard something a month or so ago that something like this was happening.  The rumor I had heard from a couple of different people is that it was going to be merged into 1 council, which I thought was ridiculous.

We take the month of August off from regular weekly meetings, but we have our annual planning meeting (and by we, I mean, the PLC and I) in August.  We had our elections in May, so the boys knew who to go to in order to give ideas for the next year.  Our first committee meeting isn't until the first meeting of the year where we review the calendar that the boys have come up with.  It isn't always perfect, but it works fairly well.

I guess I would ask who is running the planning meeting and why it isn't the boy leaders.  (in a nice way obviously )

I have heard from a couple of different people that there is talk of merging four or five councils in Northeast Ohio into one large council.  I haven't heard anything official, but a couple of different people who are not in the same circle saying this has me somewhat concerned.

Like you said @@Stosh, be careful what you wish for.  About 8 years ago, I had 16 kids cross over at once and that was tough, and I had a bigger troop to begin with!  Now we are lucky to get 1 or 2 a year, so somewhere in the middle would be good .

So here's a question.  What happens when the situation is reversed?  We have volunteered ourselves to help with meetings, offered den chiefs, invited to camp, invited to meetings, etc with our CO's pack and we can never get responses.  We only got one of their Webelos this year (their four split between three troops).  Usually the only time we hear from their leaders is when they want to get their bridge out of our shed.

We haven't given up yet and we keep trying.  One of their main leaders' son went to another troop this year with his older brother, but he seemed to be directing all the activities towards this other troop, so I hope now that he isn't involved it will start to get better, but we'll see.

Welcome to the forum!

Interesting. I think I agree. We had a district event the other night. I was a chance for the Cub Scouts to meet the troops and talk to them. Think convention table top displays. It reminded me of rushing a fraternity when I was in college. The troops were out in force trying to reel Webelos in to talk. Most were talking AT kids/parents rather than asking them what questions they had. My guys just answered questions. I could hear parents complaining that they were overwhelmed.

 

How does hit relate to council? The district and council people present took the opportunity to chat up the troop leaders there trying to get them to bump up their JTE numbers, sign up for WB, volunteer for a committee, etc. Both them and the troop leaders were more concerned with the whole "business of scouting" rather than the people that make up scouting: the kids and the parents.

 

As I was leaving this nice lady came by and said that my guys were the nicest to their kids and we were the only troop that "seemed to care about the parents and the kids". While I was happy to hear that I was saddened that 25+ troops and a dozen district/council folks were cast in such a bad light in front of 150+ Cubs and their parents. If this is representative of what is happening in other councils/districts it is no small wonder things like this happen in councils eventually.

Actually, @@Krampus, we used to do this in our district and we got a lot of Webelos this way.  Most of the troops would actually have an activity for the boys to do rather than just talking at them and then the adult leaders could answer any questions about the troop the parents had.  It was a very well done program.  We hadn't done it for awhile and I suggested to our Unit Commissioner how useful that was.  She mentioned something to the district/council powers that be and they decided to try something again this year.  However, we just got notice of it and it is in 3 weeks.  Not sure how much attendance from either Webelos or troops we will get.

I guess my point on this was that something like this can be very good if done the right way.

So sorry for the loss.  She was always a great read.  I, too, lost my mother to cancer at a relatively young age.  Although you go on, there is always a huge hole in your heart.  Thoughts and prayers for you and your family.

I just got a group email from our district advancement chair stating that if we got the email we were officially on the MBC lists.  And, oh by the way, attached is our MB Midway flyer, please make sure to sign up to do a couple of MBs.  Now, I really like our advancement chair and he really is a good guy who likes to do things by the book for the most part.  But he is pressured by council to push their MB Midway to get counselors to volunteer.  This is the second request I have received to sign up.  I am sure by the time this happens in late winter, there will be at least 5-6 more times that I will be asked.

Again, like some others have said there are probably some very good counselors who will do a good job at this, but it is so unbelievably crowded with people's unrealistic expectations, I am sure it will be a big disappointment in the end.

Echoing everyone else here @@skeptic, glad you made it through and take care of yourself.  Thoughts and prayers with you.

@@Eagle94-A1, I am probably stating the obvious here, but I tip my hat to you. From the posts on this thread, you truly care about the boys and making the troop as good as you can.  The fact that you are willing to do whatever you can to help the boys and the troop become truly boy led just amplifies this.

I'm a college student graduating in May of 2016.

As is my son, an Eagle from the 2011 class.

I manage a business intelligence and data anlytics team for a specialty retailer.

There was a couple of posts in the Scout Cooking topic that talked about breaking camp on Sunday and what time people head home.  I admit that we are a troop that breaks camp and leaves around 9 or 9:30, which is not the earliest in camp, by the way.  However, the one thing that I noticed is most camps around us want troops to check out by 11 with some as early as 10.  Like I said, I guess most scouts are gone by then anyway, but for those who want to stay it is hard when the camps are kicking troops out by mid-morning.

For those who said they don't break camp until later, are you at scout camps or other types of camps that you can stay later, or do your scout camps stay open later?

Welcome!

Along these lines, my troop had their first PLC of the year (after the Annual Planning Campout) last night.  Only one of the boys came prepared with writing utensils and notepads and no one had the information that I had sent out ahead of time on the theme for the month that they picked.  (I know @@Stosh, they should be getting this stuff, but small steps first  ).  This point is that they really weren't prepared to be the leaders even though I had been telling them what was expected of them.  They still were used to adults leading the meeting.  So, I helped facilitate this meeting first by asking how the previous couple of meetings went.  I had thought they went pretty well, but surprisingly the SPL and rest of the group were pretty hard on themselves identifying what they could do better.  Once that was done, I walked them through the fact that we had to come up with meeting plans for the next four meetings and then the campout.  I asked what they wanted to do and they came up with some ideas on their own.  You could tell that they were waiting for an adult to say no, but I let them go on and waited for them to ask questions of me.

Our theme this month is Geocaching/Orienteering and I asked the boys if any of them knew how to work GPS receivers because I wanted them to teach their fellow scouts in patrols.  A couple raised their hands and we had volunteers.  Slowly but surely we made it through the four meetings filling them with ideas that they had. Then it was time for the campout planning and one of the boys said that each patrol should set up a geocache and then find the other patrol's geocache.  I know it doesn't sound like much, but they had ideas and they didn't sit their like bumps on a log.

They also talked about cooking as a troop for this campout, but I asked if they thought cooking by patrol might be better and they were shocked that we would do that.

I had the troop really doing well for boy led when I was SM before, but after I left it was just easier for the new SM and a couple of boys to go about doing the planning.  The boys seem to be responding well to being boy led again.  BTW, the SM that I replaced hasn't been to a meeting in a few weeks even though he said that he would remain involved.  Not sure if what I am doing is shaking things up too much or what.

I am just happy that the boys are starting to see the light again.

Maybe ours is 13 or finished 7th grade.

Doesn't NYLT start at 13? At least in my area you have to be 13. Is it different elsewhere?

We sent someone this summer who just finished 7th grade and I think is still 12 (or was at the time).

I agree with @@Sentinel947 for both the NYLT comment and the fact that sometimes you have to give up on beating your head against the wall with the older ones.  When I first came in the first time, the old SM had done things certain ways and the older scouts were used to that.  When I came in and had gone to training, I tried to get my older boys to be more leaders and they really didn't want that.  I found that the kids that were in early high school and middle school were the kids that were buying into it more.  They liked the idea that they could be leaders and plan things themselves, while the older kids just thought it was more work.

Thankfully, when I came back the older scouts saw how the troop operated before and are more willing to be leaders (for the most part).  The younger scouts 8th grade and below had never seen this and were excited that they could make decisions about the troop ("you mean we can canoe again next summer if we want?") 

The other thing I would be careful of @Eagle4A-1 is that you don't step on toes of the existing leaders.  The last thing you want is a fight on your hands with adult leaders, you'll be challenged enough with the boys! 

The only way I have ever done a flag retirement is to cut it up first, usually the union separate and then the individual stripes, with some respectful ceremony and then burn, sometimes taps was playing, sometimes it was just quiet reflection.  I know there is a lot of indifference, for lack of a better term, towards the flag, which saddens me.  But I always look at the flag with honor and reverence and treat it the  same way.  It is amazing how many boys in troops out there let the flag drag on the ground.  That is like nails on a chalkboard to me.

I'm thinking that at one point or another I've probably rubbed just about everyone the wrong way at one time or another over the past 10 years.  I've had my feathers ruffled and for the sake of being polite there are a few on the forum I no longer interact with.  There is an "ignore" button for such occasions.  

 

But there comes a time when certain dynamics come together that makes it feel like the deck is stacked against oneself and then it's time to move on to more productive endeavors.  Bob White simply disappeared.  Beavah is gone too.  Lost a couple recently, and these were respected key players.  

 

We are all volunteers on this forum and dealing with volunteers is far different than hanging out with friends, employment and other groupings in society.  One of the reasons people volunteer is because they truly believe they have something to offer the situation.  If that belief is lost, they're gone.

 

We make fun of some of the "good ol' boys" clubs in our areas of the world, but for some reason or another they don't seem to hang around this forum for very long.  The "good ol' boys" of the forum are the Bob Whites, the Beavahs, Old Grey Eagle and others who have a real passion for scouting.  Maybe once they are convinced that the tenor of that passion is passe and no longer needed, that speaks volumes of the value of their expertise as well.

 

Yeah, I promote boy-led, patrol-method ad nauseum some of the time.... no, lets say most of the time. and I may come on strong with the GBB training over what's put out there today, but there are those out there that need to know what the world of Scouting was like 50 years ago.  Yeah, I walked 2 miles to troop meetings, in the snow, uphill both ways, too.  But from those bits of information one can glean little nuggets of information that may rejuvenate a dying program out there somewhere in the world.  If it becomes obvious that this forum doesn't want that information any longer, I too will move on down the trail as well. 

@@Stosh, I think you have some  great ideas and I hope the forum doesn't lose sight of all the experience and passion you have.  I hope I didn't indicate that I don't value your ideas, because that is not at all what was intended by my comments.

I remember all those guys from when I first came on the forum and started as SM 10 years ago.  Great insight from them as well.  They could be a little rough around the edges, but generally good guys with a ton of passion.

Going to vent for a minute here.

First off, I am sad to see BD leave the forum.  I respect him for what he has done with his troop.  He obviously loves working with this group of kids.  Hats off to you.  When someone mentioned that he was the second to leave in as many weeks, I didn't know who until I looked at the name change and last post of someone.  That is a shame as well, as even though we didn't agree on everything, I got a lot of great advice from him.

We have a very diverse group of people here, not only from a political point of view but also demographically and troop make up.  My God, we go from @@Stosh having two scouts in his troop to folks like @@Eagledad and others with more than 50.  I may not agree with everything that @@Stosh posts, but I have tremendous respect for him.  His love of scouting is obvious when he starts a troop from scratch.  @@Eagledad is another person that I can tell loves Scouting (maybe not everything, but the general premise).  I personally know @@TAHAWK and he has way more experience in Scouting than I will have if I stay involved for the rest of my life!

My point is we don't always agree on everything but we should always agree to be civil to each other.  I don't know why BD thought that @@Hedgehog was getting personal and is dropping out of the forum, but he has a point that there is some personal digs that happen and NOT only in the I&P section.  I have been on this forum for over 10 years and have learned a great deal from most, if not all, of you, especially when I first stepped up as SM 10 years ago.  I hope some of you have learned something from me.

As I have said many times, I don't agree with everything national does, but I stay involved in Scouting because I really enjoy working with the boys and seeing them grow from boys  to young men. Recently, my first Eagle Scout got married.  It made me feel old, but it also made me smile knowing that he has become a man and is starting his own family.  Who knows in a few years his son may come into the troop!

Sorry for the rambling rant.  This is not my way of saying that I am leaving the forum, because I am not.  I have too much to learn and too much to share with others to let a few people ruin it for me.  This is just my way of saying let's be a little nicer to each other on here, even if we don't always agree.

Thanks to all of you for your insight and guidance you have provided to me and thanks to BD for all his hard work in scouting.  Good luck to you with your troop.

I spoke to the Unit Commissioner for both us and the pack associated with our CO.  She told me that she was able to recruit 20 new boys for the pack at all levels, not just Tigers, which is great because they have been seeing membership dwindle over the past couple of years.  The pack's response to this was "What are we supposed to do with all these new boys?"  With that response, I wonder how many of those 20 will stay.

I also received an email from our new Lead DE this morning that he is going to set up recruiting talks in the 6th and 7th grades at our schools in October to try and get older boys recruited into the troop.  I am impressed, initially at least, that he is doing this as we haven't had this done before.  If this works, I will stop my criticism of district professionals.  At least for a year  .

Welcome to the forum!

Based on my experience, I'd say eight months.

 

My son crossed over at the end of March two years ago.  I was the Cubmaster for the Pack.  First Troop meeting I attended, I was asked to be an ASM and encouraged by my son.  Took Outdoor Leadership training over a weekend.  A couple of weeks later, the Troop was going to cancel the May campout (which would be the first for the new scouts) because of lack of interest by older scouts and the current leaders.  I stepped up and worked with the incoming SPL to run a mini-skills campout -- Toten Chit, Fireman Chip and making first aid kits.  Attended summer camp that summer with the Troop.  In September became one of the two ASMs responsible for the outdoor program.  With a new SM, we began emphasizing Boy-Led on camp outs.  Adults now camp 200 feet away.  

 

I grew up wandering around the woods in the Poconos in Northeastern Pennsylvania at my family's modest vacation home (which was built by my Eagle Scout father).  Maybe camped out a dozen nights growing up -- including nights in friends' back yards. My Dad taught me to fish, pick berries, row and sail.  I didn't do BSA.  For Cub Scouts, I organized the campouts which were the parents were cooking dinner and making the camp fire.  Everyone was camping out as families and then getting up in the morning and going home.  As soon as my son and I crossed over, I immersed myself in Boy Scouts learning as much as I could about the program.  The training helped as did these forums.  I also did hours and hours of research regarding camping and backpacking gear - so much that I'm now the Troop expert on gear.  I subscribed to Backpacker magazine (heck, I was able to do it with unused airline miles) and bought a bunch of books on ultralight backpacking, survival skills and camp cooking.

 

I'm close to camping out 50 nights (both with and without the Troop) since my son crossed over.  One of the other ASMs and I camped out in 25 degree weather while taking Wilderness First Aid classes -- because we could!  I've hiked or backpacked close to 200 miles over the last three years.  I'm a merit badge counselor for Camping, Backpacking, Hiking and Cooking.  I just finished a 52 mile backpacking trek with 5 boys (and another adult) on Saturday.

 

It is when we think that there is some pre-requisite to being a leader that we turn people off.  Seriously, how many of you would welcome a leader who was used to organizing and leading Cub Scout events, had never been a Boy Scout himself and who took a 20 pound 8 person tent and an inflatable air mattress on campouts?  My son's Troop did.

@@Hedgehog, your experience sounds like mine.  I never camped as a kid, lasted two months in Cub Scouts and thought roughing it was a flea bag motel.  Once my boys got involved in scouts, however, I got more involved in Cub Scouts and went on overnight campouts for Webelos with my older son, became a den leader right away for my younger son and bought my first tent at 36 years old to go on a Webelos campout. 

I became an ASM with the troop my older son joined and went on campouts with them occasionally and took some training.  When we moved and the local troop that my older son joined had an interim SM and needed someone to step up, I said sure.  Well, I took training right away learned everything I could and lasted 7 years in my first stint as SM.  I camped all the time with the troop and went to Sea Base and did a Philmont trip.  Now I am back for my second stint as SM and looking forward to it.

So, like you, I wonder if the requirments that a lot of people want to add for new leaders would have turned me off.  I know that if anyone is willing to step up in my troop and is willing to work with the boys, I welcome them with open arms.

BTW, where did you go and how was the trip?