PackCC

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll be taking them to our committee/leaders/CM and will post an update at a later date as to how the situaion played out.

Did want to say a few things....unfortuntely, the church that is our CO isn't at all involved in the Pack, or the Troop for that matter. I'm actually a member of that church and it's a huge issue with me, that has been taken to the pastor, that there is no involvement from the church w/ the scouts. In fact, one gets the impression that we are a down right annoyance to many in the church, for no valid reasons. It's almost embarrasssing, to me as a member of the church, as to how the scouts are treated. There's a very overwhelming feeling of not being welcome. It's something we've (CM and I) have talked to the pastor about and he in turn has brought to the church council. There has been no improvement since we brought this up around Christmas time. There's a wealth of info sitting in those pews each Sunday, but the church itself has quite an attitude of not wanting to be bothered by anything. It's a frustration for many of us.

As for the troop.......lordy, there's a story in itself. It has quite a bad reputation due to the SM rubbing everyone wrong. I hear that there is a lot of talk going on with the COR to try and see if he could be encouraged to step down, in order to try and repair the damage done. There's absolutely NO interaction between the Pack and Troop, which I understand has been the case for about 6 years now. Last year, to make sure our Webelos II finished up their arrow of light, it was like pulling teeth with the SM to set things, which he often just was a no-show on. We had a huge influx of new scouts last year (due to a new recruitement technique by the new guy at the council office) and called and talked with the SM about getting some of the boys from the Troop to temporarily help us out until we could get more leaders (we went from 25 kids to 54)and he, and the boys he promised, were a no show.

Anyway, just wanted to give that background. Thanks again for all of the ideas. Hopefully we'll have this position filled by someone who really wants to mentor the boys soon.

that's an interesting thought.....question...if our chartered organization doesnt like this idea (ie, would rather all the dens meet at their building) then do we have an say so in this matter?

Beagle Scout, no changing date/time is not a possiblity. We meet at a church and it has other activities going on every other night of the week. There was talk of changing dates before, but our meeting place can not accomodate a change. As for time change, the football games around here can start as late as 730, so we're talking 9(ish)pm before a meeting could get started. For elementary school kids, that's entirely too late.

Cubbingcarol, about the grandmother....she has privately told me that she is in over her head as is, but would happy to help with activities such as dinners,etc. But, a full time position isn't something she's up to.

We have inquired to another grandfather who brings his grandson if he'd be interested, but his grandson isn't a Webelo and he absolutely wants to remain with him.

Last year our Cubmaster filled in at the Webelos den until we found a leader (the aforementioned leader who's son isn't a webelo, but filled in anyway--bless him!). However this isn't an option for us now, as he is military and deploying to the mid-East for several months soon after our scouting year begins.

when we had the parent meeting, it wasn't to put anyone on the spot and ask them to fill a position...it was a planning meeting where we discussed the calendar, the pack rule changes, what activities we'd like to do again, what we'd like to change, what we'd like to add, etc and talked about the vacant positions in the Pack. No one was asked to volunteer right then and there. It was just informational, to let people know where help was needed. It was after the meeting that folks came up and said they'd like to take such and such spot. No one was put on the spot in front of a crowd.

As for last year's Webelos leader...he's still with us. However, he is taking the first year Webelos this year (he absolutely did not want the second). (side note, his son is no where near the webelos dens yet, but has stepped up to fill this spot anyway). We've personally (cubmaster or I) have asked two specific webelos II parents if they'd be able to help out, both of which said they couldn't do it. That leaves 5 other parents, one of which isn't the parent, but the grandmother who picks her grandson up and brings him to meetings since his parents won't for whatever reason. So, we're down to four. One other we'd really like to see take the position, BUT, their son doesn't even attend meetings until Christmas time b/c he plays football and games and our meetings are at the same time/day. The other three parents....one's son is a hit or miss at meetings...he rarely comes consistantly. Then there's the other two. One would likely not be a good leader. They're of the 'dropping him off for you to babysit' variety and don't attend any events which actually require them to be present. That leaves one other parent who we can't get a read on at all. Maybe we'll be surprised by him. I don't know.

it wasn't a threat in the letter, explaining that without a leader we wouldn't be able to serve that den....it is however, a fact of the matter and one of which should be pointed out so that that urgency of the situation is better understood

as for our chartered organization, they've absolutely nothing to do with the Pack nor the Troop either. There's no actual involvement on their part. As for the Troop, I have a son in the troop and they are going through some major issues with leadership right now and are barely afloat.

We had a few vacancies w/in the Pack. We had a parent meeting the other night to explain these vacancies and attempt to fill them. We filled all immediate need vacancies except the Webelos II den leader and assistant leader. Putting the first and second year webelos together is not an option for us this year, as the numbers are too large to do so.

It is felt w/in the leadership that it ultimately should be up to the webelos II parents to step up to the plate on this matter. Ironcially, not a darn one of them bothered to show up to the parents meeting.

A letter has not been sent to each of the Webelos II parents explaning the situation and that without a leader, we won't be able to have a Webelos II den.

In the event that no one steps up to lead their son's den, what would you do? Do you feel that ultimately it's up to the parents of the den to fill the role if all parents have already been asked and no one wanted it?

It would be a tragedy, in my opinion, to have to send these boys to another pack, as many have been there since Tigers. BUT, if their parents aren't willing to step up to the plate in a time of desperate need, then what's left to do?

Greg Nelson, do you mind me asking how much your Pack dues are? I like the idea of splitting it into two payments at two different times of the year.

ScoutNut...how big is your Pack? Is there a penalty or opt out fee for those who decide to not participate at all? I also love the idea of getting to throw a pie in someone's face (as long as it's not mine! LOL! J/K, I'd be game as a victim if it got people fired up to sell!)

JeffD, we've decided to put out 'opt out' fee higher than what the Pack would actually make off our minimum sales requirement in order to encourage people to sell instead of pay the opt out. We put out opt out fee at $50 and our minimum sales requirement at $75.

As fall is upon us, for around here, this brings the annual council wide popcorn sales. Our Pack participates each year. Participation is marginal at best. Last year I took over as CC and our CM was new too. The outgoing CC and CM from the previous year didn't really enforce/encourage selling and the forms were just something that ended up in being handed out along with the calendar without any explanation. As both the CM and I were new in our postions last year, after the fact we acknowleged that it definitely takes more than assuming that folks understand the importance of this fundraiser and we wanted to make some changes this year.

We have decided, along with our newly founded popcorn commitee (there hasn't been one in years past) to offer a prize from the Pack (in addition to any trailsend prizes) to our top seller as well as having a pizza party for the den that sells the most popcorn. Does your pack offer prizes? What kind of selling incentive does your Pack have?

There are quite a few parents in the Pack that have the frame of mind that they don't need to bother selling, as there are other parents/boys in the Pack that 'sell enough for the rest of us." I personally think that not only is this a bad attitude, but a bad one to pass onto our child, the fact that you're in an organization, but you'll let everyone else pay your way.

Because of this, the committe, CM and I have decided that we need to set a minimum sale requirement, so that everyone is pulling their own weight in the Pack.

Does your Pack have a minimum sales requirement? If so, what is it? Do you offere the option of an opt-out fee? What is your opt-out fee? If the sales requirement isn't met, do they owe any part of the opt-out fee?

Our Pack fees are low, we think, at $7/year. They've been kept low in order to allow familes of all economic backgrounds to join. If the $7 is a hardship for anyone, our chartered organization arranges for this fee to be paid on their behalf. For our Pack to go, fundraisers are extremely important. We'd hate to have to raise the Pack fees.

I look forward to hearing how different Packs around the country handle popcorn sales.

I think it would be a good idea!

We have a leader who is completely ineffective. She is a Tiger leader. She is never prepared or relies soley on the parent participation part of the Tiger program to actually do the entire meeting while she just wonders in with literally nothing in hand and sits down and does nothing, literally. It's a wonder that any Tigers/parents returned after the first meeting of the year, when she had nothing at all for the children to do, while talking to the parents and telling them what to expect during the year (which included telling them, I kid you not, that they'd be looking for a stick as a "go see it" on an upcoming camping trip). As my child is a Tiger, I stepped in and found some craft items around and did an improptu craft with the Tigers. It's been a year of lack of being prepared or knowing what's going on within her Den. The parents have long given up asking her questions or going to her about anything, instead waiting until she leaves the room and asking me or calling/emailing me at home.

At the Pack meetings she is never prepared to give out awards to her Den. She always claims to be unaware of what her Den should be doing for Pack meetings (skit, song, etc). However, this info is in both the Pack calendar and in the monthly newsletter that goes out at the first Den meeting of the month (Pack meetings are the last of the month).

Then there are other issues: Popcorn sales. She sold a good amount, however, when it came time to turn in money, it was a huge issue and the Scout office was calling to see if we needed to press charges against them if they didn't turn it in by a set time. It was a nightmare. We got the $, but her husband (who, btw, was the assistant cubmaster, though did literally nothing either to help out in any shape, form or fashion) then decided to bad mouth myself (I'm the CC), the Cubmaster and treasurer to other parents. He has since gone missing from the program, having apparently decided to not be assistant cubmaster anymore (though this was no actual loss to the Pack). Other issues, bouncing checks written to the Pack (but always claiming it had to be an error on OUR bank's part!). Her son is a Wolf and the Wolf leader has had nothing but behavior issues with him that have her extremely frustrated, feeling that he is taking away from the rest of the den.

I'm new at the CC position this year as is the Cubmaster. There are no rules, regulations, policies of any kind in place from the outgoing leadership. It's been a very learning year and we have come up with a set of policies to help with some of the issues that we've expereinced over the past year.

Back to the leader, she clearly does not need to be a leader. What would be the way to go about this? We need a leader who LEADS, who is prepared, who isn't questionable when it comes to turning in money owed to the Pack.