ogghall

We are a troop from western Wisconsin looking for a camp in either South Dakota or Colorado to take a backpacking high adventure in the summer of 2010. (Prefer locations we are approximately a good days drive to.) We are looking for a camp that would provide a guide and planned trek since we are not experienced at backpacking treks and it would be the first time in a long time venturing outside the state.

A couple of camps I found googling were Medicine Mountain Scout Ranch in SD and Elkhorn High Adventure Base in CO. There leader guides had the type of trips we were looking for. I did see some negative things written about Medicine Mountain but they appeared to be 4 to 5 years old and I believe were more directed to the summer camp and not the high adventure activities.

Appreciate any comments about these camps high adventure activities or other camps with backpacking near these areas.

A constitutional right here... A constititional right there.

Our council provides the cards free. Unless cost is included in the cost of the rank/merit badge. How much are they charging?

I am somewhat curious why someone continues to want the position but has no interest in being involved. It isn't the pay. Do they give any reason for wanting to stick around? Usually when someone becomes that disinterested they jump at the chance for someone to replace them.

I have a son in the Navy and I believe the restriction with tatoos is there cannot be any on the face/neck area or on the lower forearms.

I think the current fad of them being on the neck or excessive amounts of them where ever they are on the body is goofy. At least the goofy fads in my younger years like Beer Can hats could be taken off easily. I wonder what some of these are going to look like when they get older. Some aren't that attractive now and others like the barbed wire ones, neck ones, chinese symbols, or the ones on the lower back don't really show any imagination anyways.

No restictions of them in our troop and don't know of anyone with them at least in obvious spots.

I appreciate it more when posts are answered with practical answers, what the respondent actually did in a similar case or what they may do based on their experiences. I think when someone is asking a question that they know that a Council/District Scouter can help with the situation. I know I have done that in the past. But in reading posts with situations that I am interested in how they can be handled reading answers like read this or read that is frustrating. Speaking for myself the information in those manuals, handbooks, pamphlets, typically explains a general program, outline or intent but doesn't provide the information that can help a person deal with the situation or help with the issue they have. If someone is going reference the BSA program at least include practical information with it. I would hope those who do reference have that experience and would like to share it. Possibly sharing success as well as mistakes to avoid.

Another thing that is frustrating is reading a post that I have an interest in and then it gets hijacked. As far as reading those posts I try to ignore those answers but what is unfortunate is that subsequent substantive answers typically stop. The forum is a great resource for information, as mentioned, but like other posts/blogs on the internet have also provided a vehicle for those who I think would be generally ignored or do not have the interpersonal skills to contribute in any other way other then postings. It would be interesting to be a bug on the wall of their troops, work, etc to see how effective they are in their real world endeavors. Those that perpetually do that really indicate to me a lack of maturity and respect for what is trying to be accomplished by others.

Timely article from Milwaukee Journa-Sentinel on the subject of identify theft. In today's paper

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=765114

I think one of the things they really wasn't answered is if the use of ssn really improves the ability of the background check agency to find the information needed to find people with criminal backgrounds. That is the bottom line question.

Providing the number does increase the chances of it being stolen. It has to just due to the fact that someone else now has it. It would be a shame if it really isn't needed. There is also a difference between someone wanting to steal my information and someone stealing information that includes my information. I don't think I could stop someone from trying to find out about me and my specific information about me, like my credit card numbers, ssn, etc. But I would like to try and minimize the ability of people stealing information like ssn and credit card numbers and using it.

I think the news article shows that just checking your credit card statements isn't the point of the concern. It is someone using your ssn for other reasons and not being aware of it before it is too late. Then not being to do a lot about it.

Of course everbody has to make their own decisions regarding if they are willing to take the risk. A lot of those decisions will be based on persons personal experiences. People make choices, (I do not mean risky life style type choices), on how much and what type of insurances they take out, the activities they are going to be involved in, using their credit card on-line, etc. all based on the risks they want to assume. I find it somewhat curious that some of the people responding in this forum do not respect a persons concern about the risk. Just because one person might be willing to take that risks does not mean another person who does not, does not have a valid reason to be concerned. Hope some of you don't end up finding out you own a couple of homes or have another career.

I guess you can't fight city hall.

I would think the reason for having the policy stated that way is that it would make what is and what is not acceptable black and white. Using terms like "appropriate" only leaves too much up for interpertation and makes it easier to communciate the expectations and enforce.

It would seem to me there must have been problems with what had been worn at the camp and maybe previous attempts to communicate what was appropriate fell on deaf ears. Especially if some troops made sure the "rule" was followed only to come to camp to see other troops disregarding the rule.

Seems to me the easiest way to control the situation.

evmori, Today is Memorial Day and is meant to remember those who died during their service. Veterens Day is in November and would be the appropriate time to say thanks to a vet. Any day actually would work too. Just trying to keep the integrity Memorial Day in tact.

http://www.usmemorialday.org/backgrnd.html(This message has been edited by ogghall)

I think you could remain in scouting. But as one reply said it may depend on how much the troop you are in includes religous activities in its activities. Also I think it depends on how much you want to make it an issue. If you feel it is necessary to bring it up and make an issue out of it it will be one. Then again if you can accept what the troop does and do not see a need to make an issue of it it probably won't be one.

If you are good and moral person respectful of others I do not see what a belief in a good or religion has to do with it. There are enough instances in history that atrocities were done in the name of god and religion to know that just saying that you believe in god isn't all there is. If you are a good person then you should stay in.

I am old enough to have seen enough people who say they believe in god and a religion they are affilitated with that do things that are opposite of the teachings. And I also know people who belong to religions who are very good people but do not necessarily believe or follow all of the religions teachings. It is noble to believe that if you join an organization you should adhere to all its beliefs but sometimes that is just not the case, We are not perfect.

If you beleive you can become a better person by being in the scouts and you can have fun doing it, stay in. If you believe you can help others to be come better than you should stay in.

Thanks for the info on the sliders. The teeth look in good shape so this may do the trick. Eureka did get back and they do not sell zippers but will replace sliders. They will repair though. I was just looking for the zipper because a parent thought they may be able to do the sewing. But not sure if they can do now. There is a place that does tent repairs in the area but had something done of mine a few years ago and were a little pricy.

Thanks again

Anyone know where replacement zippers for eureka tents can be purchased? We have a couple of older timberline 4's that are still in pretty decent shape except for the zippers.

Thanks

Possibly a reason for this attitude by the planners of the camporee is the size of the troops attending and the percentage of scouts attending from the troops. And based on the history of past attendance of the camporees. If you have troops that number around 10-12 scouts and you get 50-75% troop membership attending there may be only 7 or 8 scouts showing up. And not necessarily an even split from the patrols. (ex. 5 from Hawks and 3 from Ravens) I guess you could let the Ravens compete with 3. I know most of the troops in our district are not made up of 25-30 scouts they are mostly around 10-15.

As far as promoting the patrol method what has been difficult for me as a SM is the inconsistency of our troop size. We can go from 6 to 14 within a year due to families moving, small crossover classes, and boys/families deciding to focus on other activities. (Sports, music, etc.) I am sure there are small troops with very successful patrol method programs. It is just more of a challenge. If the troop size was more consistent the ability to develop the patrol method would have a better chance for success. And even with 3 scouts from a patrol they could compete.

Maybe this is going on in some of the troops too and that is why there is an acceptance of the practice at the camporee. I dont think it necessarily a lack of training or a desire to not follow the program that can cause this attitude. It is just the Patrol Method is not as strong as it should be in the troops. I know it has been a struggle for me but I continue to plug away. And there are ups and down in the process. (Currently on an up.)

(I also agree with Lisabob and late or poor camporee planning being a reason for poor attendance. We keep May open on our Programm planning but sometimes the weekend is not set early on calendar or changes late)

Do any of your troops help pay for any or all of the cost of Woodbadge? Or is the person expected to pay? Typically the various Scoutmaster training has been paid for by the person attending but their cost is somewhat minimal $25. Woodbadge in our area is $200.

If your troop does pay or subsidize a portion of it do you put any guidelines on the number of persons that can attend or is their some type of request like a campership. I realize it depends on the funds that are available and we are discussing how we will fund. Just looking for some guidelines for dispersing funds.

Thanks for the help.

Go Brewers

Petronius lived in the time of the Roman Emperor Nero who named Petronius "Arbiter of Elegance." Nero was one of the emperors associated with the persecution of Christians, so he could not have lived more than two centuries before Christ.

As a Quality Guy myself I think the problem is there is no patience to let the system evolve and improve them in a unique way to your work environment. Regardless whether its Quality Circles, SDWT, TQM. 6 Sigma, Lean or whatever the next thing consultants will get rich on there is always some CEO who wants the results now because the businesses are managed by the quarter. And there is equally enough corporate ladder climbers who will facillitate this and leave their messes behind. The lack of patience also goes to the planning process to implement these things. Got to do it now so we can get payback. Only about 25 years experience talking

Little late into this post but is George crying for 3,626 and counting. Cpl. Christopher G. Scherer, 21, of East Northport, N.Y., died July 21 from wounds suffered while conducting combat operations in Al Anbar province, Iraq. He was assigned to 1st Combat Engineer Battalion, 1st Marine Division, I Marine Expeditionary Force, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Can't believe anyone voted for for this clown in 2004. Let me ask this any of you want your kid to be the last casualty in this mess?

Has anyone heard of Councils not having or not supporting Pinewood Derbies because of the loosing aspect?

Thanks for the ideas. I talked with our AC about collecting books and that sounds like a really good idea. As does submitting the blue cards to the AC too.

Thanks everyone.

Replying back to the original post I think the verb "award" is getting mixed up with noun "award" Denying the rank advancement because someone hasn't completed the requirements is not denying someone an "award" it is denying them the rank advancement. An award is something you get for bravery, service, etc and is something other people think you should get. Now there are probably somethings in a grey zone in-between those two definitions but let's not get mixed up when we say "He was awarded his rank advancement."

As far as the POR issue this post turned into discussing this shouldn't be a mystery. It should be the responsibility of the SM/ASM or other adult the POR works with, to identify if the scout is not performing the duty and meet with him and remove him if he doesn't have the skill, motivation, or maturity to perform the job. Definitely let him know why just like you might handle someone at work not performing their duties properly. If this happens too often you may want to look at how well the duties of the position are known by the scouts or how well defined you have the positions. If the position does not have a lot "history" in the troop I wouldn't expect the scout to define it for himself that is where the SM or committee person should be helping out with defining the resposnibilites.

Was interested in how your troops communicate with Advancement Chairs to keep records upto date. (Had this posted on another scout forum that closed down and got a good response unfortunately didn't copy the answer before it closing down.)For example is the only thing used to sign off requirements the scout's handbook? Then how does that get reported to the Advancement chair for posting in something like Troopmaster. We are a small troop of 11. Typically me, the SM, has been keeping the software updated but have a parent now who wants to take on the responsibility. Any info on the workings of andvancement communications is appreciated.

I guess who is going to be the judge of addiction. Someone who is against all smoking would say someone smoking a couple of day may be an addict. In the past 2 packs a day was just alot. While I don't smoke as far as I know cigarettes are legal. If your troop wants to prohibit it from campouts then go ahead. The council camps have done that. Same thing as alcohol. Just make the rules and live by them.

I am looking too for more specific examples on what actually can go on during troop meetings to make them interesting and successful. We are a small troop usually around 7 to 9 scouts. (Currently oldest are 9th graders.) I would have to say we do not have a very strong leadership history for various reasons. Some years with few or no crossovers from Webelos, military area where families move, etc. (I would prefer to keep discussion on troop activities though.) We have had 2 scouts go through the new NYLT training. SPL and others are motivated. But I am looking for specific examples much like BEAVAH.

I agree that scout led means that it isn't let all up to the boys to take care of everything. Adults need to provide the examples, training and coaching for the scouts to become better leaders and take on the leadership roles. But I would like to hear the specifics of a successful meeting agenda.

Thanks to the both of you for the help. Eamonn I looked up some of the past Scouter magazines. Those helped in putting together a list for the older scouts.

Our Troop committees haave been well attended lately but not consistent adult help at Troop meetings and outings. I think that it part of this older scout issue too. Its hard to juggle everything sometimes. At our last TC I brought the organization of troop meetings up and the older scout issue. Our CC and Org Rep brought up some things. Their experienced but do not have scouts in troop anymore. There is only one other trained parent. Looks like if we/I get organzied we should be able to make some strides to get older scouts more involved and get troop organzied for planning in August.

Captnkirk, its like you said I need to spend more time training the scouts to lead not running the meetings. The troop has to get more adults to help in the advancements, leadership development, and meetings. It looks after out last TC meeting that may be happening. Maybe needed to ask for help sooner.

Also any suggestions on getting a scout who is 17, 3 partial merit badges and project away from Eagle to return. It's my son and he was the SPL. He says he's just doesn't want to be in Scouting anymore. He doesn't have a lot of outside interests. Hate to say it but just a little lazy.

I am a SM of a 16 boy troop. I have been SM a little over 2 years and had been involved in the troop for one year before that. I have gone through the SM training. I am having difficulty making the boy led troop work. Along with myself there is an ASM and 1 or 2 parents that help out occasionally. 6 scouts are Star and Life (Most have attended JLT) and the other 10 are 2nd class and lower. (A couple of lean recruiting years in between.) One problem is not a very strong tradition/history of a boy lead troop. The older scouts want to have activities and meetings that are less boring/more exciting but do not take the lead when given the opportunity. They are distracted easily. i.e.side conversation "putzing" around, etc. They are good kids and come because they want to but like to have things done. My idea is to sit down with them and in some way challenge them to make the troop better and take the initiative to lead and provide a good example to the younger scouts. (Many of these older scouts have younger brothers in the troop)

We hit the Spring and Fall camporees, have a winter camp, go to summer camp, have a fall and spring campout ourselves, and a couple of other things like hikes and canoeing. Attendance is good about 10 attend most outings. But the program planning for this and the outing planning is like pulling teeth sometimes. (Not a lot of ideas. ASM and I seem to come up with ideas.) And as far as the troop meeting planning and troop meetings go there is even less enthusiasm to come up with ideas and stick with an agenda.

Any examples on how I can challenge the older scouts to take initiative to lead and not follow?

Our troop would like to take a boundry waters trek. (I am the SM somewhat new, and cannot go.)There are two adult members of the troop that would like to lead the outing. One is a committe member who has canoed in the BW before with the troop 3yrs ago, and the other is an 18yr old/ASM/(Eagle scout too.)Who also went on the troop trip 3 years ago. Neither of the two have any official training.

What training will they need? I have the Guide to Safe Scouting. It looks like Safety Afloat and Safe Swim Defense Training and CPR are needed. Any others?

(It's the weekend and wasn't able to call the council office so I thought I'd give the forum a shot.)

Thanks