NWScouter

VentureScoutNY is asking is it allowed to wear 9-11 pins on Scout uniform. The answer is no unless it is a BSA approved and the only way that a 9-11 remembrance could be worn officially is a temporary patch, CSP or OA Lodge Flap created for some purpose.

Now would someone asks some one to take 9-11 pin off, maybe, maybe not, but according to the rules it should not be worn.

FOG,

I know you think Mike Walton has inside information that no one else seems to have. I just look to what BSA publishes: The general rule is that badges awarded by organization other than the Boy Scouts of America may not be worn on an official uniform. This includes military medals and service ribbons. There are, however, notable exceptions. Among these are religious emblems and those special badges approved by local councils in conjunction with the nation Program Group committee such as Historic Trails medals. p. 3

This makes no mention of the NRA medals and there is no mention of them any were else in Insignia Guide.

FloridaScout,

I'm sorry you are wrong. Show me where you find them allowed in the insignia guide.

In general rule is, if it is not BSA it cant be worn officially. Even some pins and patches that are BSA issue are not allowed for uniform use (mothers pins, BSA Lifeguard, Mile Swim to name a few). The religious awards are the only ones that come to mind that are not BSA issue that are allowed on the uniform, there may be others. The most often one I seen worn that is not official for the uniform is the NRA shooting medals.

I heard back when the last Indiana Jones movie came out, that the reason that Indiana was a Life Scout was that Spielberg was honoring his father, who had made Life.

I have been on camp staff and many of the rules for who can participate in their high adventure activities have reasons that have nothing to do with ability or safety. Cost of equipment can cause age limitations due to number of harness, sail boards, and mountain bikes and to sizes offered. Not enough for the whole camp or not buying one small enough for the small scouts, age allows them to limit. Also camps want the younger scouts to concentrate on first year programs and use the high adventure program to attract older scouts back to camp when they have done most of their merit badges.

. same reason it doesn't let 12 and 13 yr old Boy Scouts do High Adventure. The G2SS does not differentiate between a 10 yr old new Scout and a 17 yr old Scout, does and dont are the same for each. BSA does not ban high adventure for any age in Boy Scout. Individual troops may make decisions on who goes on the high adventure activities. When I was a scoutmaster it more ability, desire and maturity that determined who would go on high adventure weeklong treks. My son did his first one when he was twelve. He ended up doing about 8 high country treks in the Cascades, Olympics, Rockies, and Yosemite before he turned 18. He is an Eagle, nine-year camp staffer, two of which as program director. At 28 he climbs mountains and has been four years on the council property committee. That troop does every couple of years a climb of Mt. St. Helens and still goes for weeklong treks every summer.

We found that early participation in high adventure outing is indicator of how long they stay in the Troop, they stay in and active so they can go.

We may be lucky out here, I can walk out at lunch and see Mt Baker, Mt Rainer and the rest of the Cascades to the north, east and south and to the west the Olympics and Im not 100 feet above sea level and mile away from the salt water. If you dont start the young scouts on high adventure out here you just dont keep them in.

O by the way there are around 3 million people within 50 miles of where I am sitting.

You will note, "I'm siding with the Charter as the IH." If I'm reading it right, matua is the Institutional Head of the CO. So he would have ultimate responsibility as he has delegated to the Charter Rep. To sign the applications but he still can sign them too.

The other thing irregardless of why the leader is behind on his support, to brag about it shows a lack of judgment that is maybe reason enough for the CO not to approve.

Opps. The only candidates who do not become members are those who do not make it to the ordeal. I need to proofread better, sorry

I have not known a candidate to the OA fail his ordeal. I have seen the lodge leadership work hard to make it a positive experience. The only candidates who become members are those who do not make it to the ordeal. The lodges try hard to not have this happen either.

The other way boys do not make it into the Order is by not having a unit election, if your Troop or Team is has not had an election in over a year encourage the PLC to schedule one soon.

Leggings are now called gaiters. I assume you could wear them now as you would wear a rain coat over your uniform.

After he goes through the Ordeal most lodges will give him a OA handbook. Get him signed up for first ordeal weekend he can make and let the adventure begun.

I would say if he is there in a capacity as representative of the OA. It might be the Lodge or Chapter Chief at an Eagle Cof H , or on the election team at a troop meeting, (it might be permissible to wear your sash at OA election night at your troop meeting). I guess the rule of thumb might be am I at this function primarily because I am representing the OA.

It's not quite right but when I was a scoutmaster I had any new ordeal member wear his sash to the next troop to show it off.

Ventures may wear OA insignia because they are members of the BSA.

Unless it changed it the last few year it not the requirements in the Merit Badge book but the one published in the latest requirement book or Merit Badge Book which ever is most current. Merit Badge Books are not always undated or your council may not have the latest one for sale.

Proud Eagle,

I hope you are proud of your comment. To cast scorn upon an others arguments is one of the lowest form of debate. I have not seen any mention of any specific harm that would come if Venturers or females would be part of the Order other vaguely sexist fears.

Trail Pounder,

Dont go away mad at the OA. Many members want Venturers (both male female) to be eligible to be elected to the Order. Dont let the comments of those on this forum color too much your option of the OA

It is also my understanding that GS do not have an FOS program like Boy Scouts, so the cookie sales is the major fund raising push for their councils. Also the units get a much lower percentage that the BS units get for popcorn. Every GS also has to sell and they can't have any other fund raising. I may be wrong please correct my information.

As a District Commissioner I assign Unit Commissioners to the various units based on their experience and interests. It makes no sense for someone having a commissioner with only Cubing background to be assigned to a Crew. Therefore a fully staffed District should be able to serve all type of units. The Key phrase is fully staffed, finding volunteers to step up and become commissioners is harder that it may seem. The lack of unit service comes from not having enough commissioners. National wants a one commissioner to three units, I have enough commissioners to make that ratio but I have commissioners with only one or two units because they just havent the time to do more. We have to remember that they are volunteers.

Women in our lodge are quite active, In 95 we had our first women elected to Vigil, in 99 I went through Vigil with two women. We have an active bunch of female camp staffers (youth) that are at most of our fellowships and even have gone to conclave in our section even up to Alaska. Never had any problem with them.

Enthusiastic Scoutmaster --- Tyee Tumtum

Two CommentsOne can not be elected to OA at present from between 18 and 21. I understand only Scout/Varsity members can be elected as youth member and since OA youth membership goes to age 21, one has to be 21 to be elected as adult to the OA.

At one time you could be elected from an Explorer Post but you had to have earned First Class in Boy Scout troop, that kept girls out.. The essence of our existence is that we must be those campers- Boy Scout, Explorers, and Scouters who best exemplify the Scout Oath and Law in our daily lives. Order of the Arrow Handbook 1991 printing p.7. It was your fellow Scouts or Explorers that elected you to membership in the Order p. 31 When they created Venturing they did not allow the crew to elect, and with Explorers going to Learning for Life and no longer part of Traditional Scouting, they could no longer elect.

Now my view, I believe that Ventures should be allow to elected to the OA, of both sexes.

I for some reason could not get this thread submitted from work, so I sent it home to do later. I did not notice that similar thread had been started before I submitted it.

Not picking on MK9750, but he mentioned that he carried merit badges and rank badges with him. I have seen others make mention of having stashes of badges. I believe their idea is that they can present the rank at the campfire or what ever and honor the Scout right then. As a former District Advancement chair I have problems with that. We are instructed by the BSA to present the badge to the Scout as soon as possible, preferably the next Troop meeting, but not before the paperwork is turned in. In another thread we have a scout claiming that he has 38 more merit badges than his record. Now I can't believe a troop could lose that many records but the handing out badges without turning in the paperwork first is a good way to 'lose' the records. The council record of the advancement sheets is the proof of the work of the scout.

Unless there was a fire in his old council's office, his old Council should have kept copies of advancement forms for about 8 yrs or more. He should be able to go there and get copies of those with his name on them (he might have to spend some time going through them to find them).

Here is some REI advice on picking water purification systems:

http://www.rei.com/online/store/LearnShareDetailArticlesList?categoryId=Camping&url=rei/learn/camp/filter3f.jsp

Gone are the days when I was a Scout, we would have our cup clipped to our belt and at every stream we would drink our fill. Now you need to purify the water no matter how it clean it looks.

I have never been a leader in GS and my girls were in Campfire but from what I have heard from Scouters involved in GS, if you think you females are treated like second class citizens in BS try being a male in GS.

Eamonn,

Just some advice about stoves. Unless you are going out of this country, Canada or Europe you don't need to get the multi fuel stoves. White gas or Coleman fuel is available all over. The cost goes up. I like MSR and have two older Whisper lites. Maybe it's because we were getting them reconditioned from MSR (they are headquartered in Seattle). Here is REI site on how to chose a stove: http://www.rei.com/online/store/LearnShareDetailArticlesList?categoryId=Camping&url=rei/learn/camp/bkstove3f.jsp

Another thing that as my older bones need is a sleeping pad. I go nowhere without my Therma-rest. Here is REI site on sleeping pads:

http://www.rei.com/online/store/LearnShareDetailArticlesList?categoryId=Camping&url=/rei/learn/camp/slpadf.jsp

I have done 50 miles on Mt Rainer when I was 15 to 50 miles in the North Cascade in my forties and many in-between. Im planning on head one or the other this summer to test out my leg that both bones were broken by a car hitting the my car door and pinning my legs between the body of the car and door. The Scout troop of my youth and the troop I was scoutmaster in for ten years did a high adventure trek every year. Last year they went over the Chilkoot Trail in Southeastern Alaska.

My Units Commissioner is still hiking along with the troop on the week long treks and hes in 70s.

About fifteen years ago I took a winter camping seminar with a final exam spending a night at 7000 ft on Mt. Rainer in January. They brought us into the visitor center in the evening to dry us and warm us up after all day building igloos to sleep in. The Park Ranger gave us a talk on Avalanches safety. The one thing that I will remember always from that talk was his percentages of survival. These are close to what he said: 100 % of the people who dig themselves out survive, 75 % whose party dig them out make it and only 10 % who are dug out by a rescue crew that was brought in live.

The ones who die that their party digs out are usually killed by traumatic injury and the most of ones who are dead by the time the rescue crew gets there are dead due to hypothermia and suffocation.