nolesrule

1 minute ago, Ojoman said:

Actually, unless things have changed since I 'retired' a youth remains a cub unless graduated earlier, until the end of the school year for grade 5. Youths and/or adults with certain disabilities can remain in Cubs or Scouts beyond the above criteria. I know of a nursing home that ran a Scout program for the male residents. 

Things clearly have changed since you "retired". I provided the current Scouts BSA joining requirements that went into effect April 18, 2022.

While you are correct on the disabilities portion, it is not relevant. The question is about the earliest point someone in Cub Scouts (or not in Cub Scouts) can join a Scouts BSA troop, not how long someone can stay a Cub Scout.

@fred8033 They never updated that FAQ. Shocking.

here is the current youth application with a revision date of 04/2023.

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-406.pdf

I agree the wording is somewhat ambiguous, but it's been clarified elsewhere (by some national volunteer somewhere) that the intent is that it must be on or after March 1 of the 5th grade school year. The idea behind this particular clause was that a kid not already in Cub Scouts would be allowed to join at the same time as their buddies already in Cubs would be crossing over.

On 12/2/2023 at 7:53 PM, Ojoman said:

Other times to join Scouts BSA are age 11 or 10 1/2 and graduated grade 5. 

No, the joining requirements for Scouts BSA changed on April 18, 2022, and are as follows:

At least 10 years old, currently in the fifth grade and register on or after March 1
or

At least 10 years old and have earned the Arrow of Light Award
or

At least 11 years old (but not yet 18)

My daughters are both on their way. They also left at the crack of dawn today (so even though I'm not going my day also began at 4am today... need more coffee). They are handling things much the same way as BAJ's jamboree troop. Other than a handful of designated times where there are pre-scheduled unit activities (such as the flood bucket service project mentioned above), they are free to do what they want during the day with buddies.

3 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

To me, uniforms convey a much higher level of service. I don't put my life on the line to serve my country or community.

I just want to address this, because I think it misses the point of uniforms. Uniforms are part of everyday life, sometimes subtly, sometimes not so subtly. A uniform is really just an outward expression of an individual's commitment to the aims and ideals of the group the uniform represents, and can act as a mirror to help reflect that back at yourself. It adds a level of outward expectation to strive to live up to.

When I worked as a bagger at a grocery store in high school, I had a uniform (branded polo, black pants). When I worked at Blockbuster Video in college I had a uniform (light blue oxford shirt, khakis, dress shoes.... it was before they switched to branded polos).

In both of those jobs I held, there were certain expectations that came with uniform whether the customer realized it or not, and in a subtle way it helped me live up to them. If you've ever compared grocery stores in the south east, you know that baggers at Publix are generally a step above other stores (if they even have baggers at all). At Blockbuster, there was an expectation to follow the "G.U.E.S.T." principles for interacting with customers. In Scouting it's an outward expression of your commitment to follow the Oath and Law.

Sports teams also wear uniforms. And it's not just so you know which team someone is on during a competition.

The "uniform is "just" a method, but it's more widely used than people realize if they stop to look around.

On the other hand, I have this huge phobia of eating in my field uniform. Especially on spaghetti night at summer camp.

I don't know about Arlington, but my youth troop was posting photos placing flags at the Bay Pines National Cemetery in St. Petersburg, FL this weekend. And it was good to see them continuing to do that service project 30-something years after the last time I was involved.

20 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I would be wary of the accuracy of training reports of Scouters who have been around of while. At least three in the past 19 years, training records and PORs have disappeared.

 

 

In April, our troop SM's and CC's training records disappeared.

My brother had to dig up proof he took IOLS from his emails recently because it never got recorded by his council (he was not in an SM/ASM position at that time, so it wasn't imperative to double check accurate data entry).

I'm not sure I understand. The 20 miler has been part of the requirements for as long as I can remember. The recent requirement change is from

5, 3 x 10, 15, 20 (6 hikes, 70 miles)

to

4x 10, 20 (5 hikes, 60 miles)

They have reduced the total distance by 10 miles and the number of hikes by 1.

This topic is covered in GTA Section 4.2.3.6

I like what it says about service hours and service projects.

Quote

When contemplating whether to double-count service hours or a service project, and apply the same work to pass a second advancement requirement, each Scout should consider: “Do I want to get double credit for helping others this one time, or do I want to undertake a second effort and make a greater difference in the lives of even more people?” To reach a decision, each Scout should follow familiar guideposts found in some of those words and phrases we live by, such as “helpful,” “kind,” “Do a Good Turn Daily,” and “help other people at all times.”

By the book, anything done toward a requirement may also be used toward another requirement, as long as the requirements for one of them do not expressly forbid it, and all requirements are met as written.

On 3/19/2023 at 3:55 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:

depends upon the lodge and/or chapter. I have seen some extremely hi quality regalia used.

I'm not sure that matters much. You  can have high quality regalia and it still will appear as cosplay... just highly dedicated cosplay.

I can't tell you the number of times I've heard the word "cringy" used by scouts in reference to the Native American aspects of the OA.

And yes, I do recognize that my screen name refers to a university that uses Native American regalia and symbols... with permission (although there is no doubt in my mind that permission comes with a price tag).

The proposal section is fine... until you get to Page D. Everything past the "Giving Leadership" section is straight up project planning. My daughter didn't do a Planning section either because she found it unnecessarily redundant to the proposal.

I can see the planning section being helpful to scouts for complex projects to help keep organized, but a project doesn't have to be complex. If you have to practically plan the project in the proposal, you don't need the planning section.

32 minutes ago, malraux said:

But because the g2ss says that "All Cub Scout camping requirements still apply, including the den must have a BALOO trained adult leader in attendance and all Youth Protection policies apply." The single night limitation is part of the Cub Scout camping requirements, it would seem to me.

Yes, but....

The cub scout requirement for single overnight experiences has the caveat that it is a pack coordinated overnight. None of the other pack-level requirements have that phrase. Therefore it puts an extra condition on when single night experience restrictions apply.

They could have chosen to leave out pack-coordinated to give it broader applicability to cub camping. I postulate that the specific use of "pack coordinated" and "den coordinated" is intentional as to allow Webelos/AOL dens to continue 2-night overnight trips with troops, while restricting pack-level overnights to a single night.

I sincerely doubt the lawyers missed this one.

7 hours ago, seattlecyclone said:

One question that pops out to me about that: is a Webelos/AoL den-coordinated campout considered a "pack unit coordinated campout" (and therefore subject to the one-night limit) or is it a separate thing entirely since it's just the den and not the whole pack involved?

Regarding the ability to go along with Scouts BSA activities, it seems to be saying that the Webelos/AoL dens can stay overnight at troop-coordinated campouts, but can only be day visitors at camporees. Putting these rules together it seems they're saying pack-organized campouts are more risky than council-organized campouts, which are in turn more risky than troop-organized campouts. Make sense to everyone?

A camporee is a multi-unit event making it a district or larger event. A troop camping trip is a single unit event. The prohibition on camporee overnight attendance means a Webelos or AOL den cannot camp with a troop at a camporee. I don't know what makes a camporee inherently more risky or what other reasoning they are using. One would have to ask national.

The GTSS clearly states that Webelos and AOL dens can conduct den coordinated campouts (see the screen grab a few posts up). The single overnight experience limitation specifically applies to pack coordinated overnights. Something cannot be both pack coordinated and den coordinated. It's either one or the other. The wording for pack coordinated and den coordinated is in the same sub-section of the GTSS, so I would find it hard to believe the wording in this section is not intentional to allow Webelos and AOL dens to camp for more than one night.

Preparation and practice so that the timer isn't really necessary. The last thing you need is someone rushing through the content near the end of the presentation because they went too long much earlier.

But I do like @InquisitiveScouter's low-cost idea.

@RememberSchiff nice to see our efforts here in Mecklenburg are providing a positive to a difficult situation. We've been seeing year over year increases in in our Scouting for Food collection and I hope that continues.

26 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Deal with people individually.  It is the only way...

That's really the crux of what I was trying to say and apparently I did a lousy job of it.

I'm not saying there is maliciousness in peoples behaviors toward others by not recognizing differences (there can be, but that's a different topic). What I'm saying is that people who only have experience with others like themselves and don't see differences make assumptions based on their own experiences of similarity.

You hear things like "I treat everyone the same", which is okay to an extent, but not everyone is the same. To get back on track, this merit badge is about learning to observe, recognize and think about those differences.

Treating people the same is asking someone one on one to buy your pork barbeque fundraiser year after year after year even when you know they have some sort of dietary restriction where they cannot eat pork (the reason doesn't matter). Treating them based on their identity means considering their known individual attributes first.

We also have things like 504/IEP in school, where people are treated differently based on their needs so that they can perform better. My younger daughter gets distracted and agitated by the clicking of keyboards to the point she can't get work done, and pretty much everything has been moved to laptops at schools these days. So the school formally allows her to wear ear plugs so she can focus. For her, ear plugs are the difference between being a C student and an A/B student. It's not taking anything away from someone else.

We don't do popcorn, because we'd never be able to compete with the Cub Scouts. We sell Camp Cards in the spring and last year First Aid Kits in the fall. Unfortunately we are never able to get table sales in front of a high traffic area. The one time we did get in at a Walmart they doublebooked us with girl scouts selling cookies and that was a disaster.

3 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Because it's wrong to use race and gender to claim more knowledge, rights and privileges than others.   Go figure.  It's fundamental to the political hypocrisy of these issues --> Using the differences of race and gender to justify why the other person is less informed.  

Not claiming more knowledge. Claiming more experiences with differences and how differences are treated. People with experience being different tend to have more consideration for those who are different from them. It's just the way the world works, and it's because experience informs your how you think about things which informs your behavior.

That's not to say people who aren't in minorities don't, but it's certainly less likely. I see evidence of it all the time.

We could also talk about some of the negativity that came with girls being allowed in Scouts BSA, and we still see 4 years later. My daughter has experienced some of that. As @KublaiKen rightfully points out, inclusion means more than just allowing membership.

My daughter is also left handed, and we live in a very right-handed oriented world that people who are right handed don't seem to understand.

Is that a better example? Because it's just as applicable to the conversation but for some reason because it's not about race or religion or gender it's more palatable.

4 minutes ago, Armymutt said:

Doesn't seem to be a consistent thing.  The Lowe's closest to our Pack pretty much ghosted us when we asked for permission.  Meanwhile, the 4 other Lowe's in the council, including one in our district, were cool with it and were listed on the TE shift manager.  We had to drive 30 minutes to get there, but it was like a tobacco auction until the good popcorn ran out.  

Lowe's corporate HQ is literally 10 minutes outside our council borders. I wonder if the stores were just giving us a line.

3 minutes ago, Armymutt said:

We tell our Cubs to sell, sell, sell because I'd rather spread the cost of Scouting across the community than pull it from the parents' bank account.  Realistically, even with the 30% commission going to the Scout, it only takes about 4 to 6 hours at Lowes to make the Scout $1000 in commission.  That covers their dues, national and council fees, camping, uniforms, and a bit left over for some high quality camping gear.  My kids both have Big Agnes sleeping bags and air mattresses with $0 coming from our family's accounts.  

You can sell at Lowes? We reached out to do a fundraiser at 2 of them nearby and they told us they don't allow them anymore as a corporate policy.

2 hours ago, fred8033 said:

That's your scout.  Few scouts would ever list any Citizenship MB as a favorite.  
 

Yes, that's my scout. Who is also a minority gender in scouting as well as a minority religion. People who tend to be from a group that gets marginalized to any degree tend to discuss those challenges. As a female Jewish person in organization comprised mostly of white Christian males she wonders (and so do I) why people afraid of having conversations about differences?

What are they scared of?

33 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

That woke Boy Scouts of America with their "help other people at all times" and friendly and kind schtick. 😕

The Oath and Law are just suggestions that we give lip service to.

And you are going to get differing opinions on whether it can actually fit into the other Citizenship merit badges. I don't think it effectively can, as I think it works better as a single focused topic. But again, that's an opinion. On the other hand, I think Nation and World should be combined. And I think that you could incorporate outdoor food safety requirements into the cooking part of Camping merit badge and drop Cooking back to an elective. But again, that's my opinion.

I also don't think it's something that can be effective as part of the Scout Spirt requirement. The setting is different since the MB is a discussion among scouts sharing thoughts and opinions and you aren't going to get the same level of coverage across units as you would in a scout spirit conversation for rank as you would with the merit badge. 

And the fact it is a merit badge means it can't get skipped over by the people who think they know better and that having in depth discussions about applicability of the Oath and Law is a 4 letter word.

And for a data point, my daughter at her Eagle Board of Review 3 weeks ago stated it was her favorite merit badge of the 53 she had earned (I know because she told me afterwards... I was not in the room).

The output is a fillable PDF, so your scout can manually complete the missing data.

But as @qwazse said, report the issue at the linked discssuion form which provides support for scoutbook.