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Posts posted by NJCubScouter

  1. 2 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

    Ok.  So a girl joins on Feb 1 and turns 18 on Feb 2, 2019.  Same question.

    That would seem to be the perfect case for a full 2-year extension.  As for your previous question about whether they stay in the troop while age 19 and 20, how is it handled NOW when a Scout is given an extension past his 18th birthday? I do not know the answer to that question.  We had one Scout who was given until his 19th birthday to make Eagle due to severe physical disabilities.  Until he made Eagle (which actually was 4 or 5 months before he turned 19) he was treated as a Scout for all purposes.  Whether that was correct under National policy, I don’t know.  And this was about 12 years ago, so the application of YP rules may be different today than it was then.

    i think these are things that can be worked out.

  2. Just now, Thunderbird said:

    This seems to say that a 16-year-old would get 24 months (at most) from initial registration:

    "The actual extension will be based upon the individual’s registration date and age at the time of the request and will provide not more than twenty - four months from the date of initial registration to complete all requirements."

    I think what it actually seems to say is that every extension may be a different length. I think it probably suggests that someone who turns 16 on Jan. 31 will get significantly LESS than the full 2 year extension.  But we’ll find out.

    • Upvote 1

  3. 2 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

    I actually found this solution to be much better than what was being asked.  There was pressure to shorten the time period between ranks or even give credit for work done before joining Scouts.   They are offering to this to boys as well and are not changing requirements (other than max age)... plus you have to earn this within 24 months so it is not for those who want to abuse this exception.

    I would have been completely happy with no modifications and I’m surprised they are allowing the exception, but at least they didn’t follow some of the suggestions that would have weakened the rank.

    I agree. It seems like the most limited and equitable “transition rule” they could have adopted, if they were going to adopt one at all.

    • Upvote 2

  4. Until I got to #3, I thought this was the worst decision in history.  But both genders are being treated equally, so I guess it isn’t the worst decision in history.  It actually seems like a Solomonic decision. I guess.

    On a more positive note, I think the decision not to recognize a “first female Eagle Scout”, and the stated reasoning, is perfect.  That is what I was hoping they would do.

    • Upvote 2

  5. On 10/1/2018 at 2:13 PM, LVAllen said:

    Clarke Green over at scoutmastercg.com recently posted a podcast in which he discussed his troop's reaction to female scouts during a trip to the International Scout Center in Switzerland. It took his troop maybe ten minutes to grasp the concept that the females they saw weren't Girl Scouts, they were just Scouts. 

    I suspect those first 10 minutes were spent thinking, "Hey, girls!"  If it only takes 10 minutes for the "girls" to become "just Scouts," that bodes well for this thing being successful.

    • Upvote 1

  6. 7 hours ago, Eagledad said:

    The BSA seems to at the very least reference morality with higher power in the same objective of preparing young young people for life.

    Possibly.  My point is that they don't require that its members share such a belief.

    7 hours ago, Eagledad said:

    Oh sure, a lawyer can find loop holes if that's what it takes to be part of the group.

    Any lawyer in particular?

    7 hours ago, Eagledad said:

    But I think your reasoning (defense) of higher power and morality only make understanding harder, not clearer.

    Maybe.  I suppose it is clearer and simpler to say that you have a book right here that contains all of the moral lessons and requirements that mankind needs, handed down from on high.  It is much more complicated and messy if you believe that morality is aggregate result of thousands of years of human interactions, but that's what I think.

    7 hours ago, Eagledad said:

    It guess morality really is accountability of our actions toward others. While most believers actions are accountable to god, you believe your actions are only accountable to you. 

    I would appreciate it if you wouldn't tell me what I believe.  In fact, I believe all of us are accountable to each other for our actions, although the "enforcement" of that accountability tends to be flawed and inconsistent, because we are human beings.

    7 hours ago, Eagledad said:

    But I think, while you protest using a higher authority for judgement, most feel higher authority is the law.  

    I'm not protesting anything.  We can all believe what we want to believe.  Which gets back to the main point of the BSA's openness to a wide variety of beliefs.

  7. 10 hours ago, Eagledad said:

    How could the hideously flawed man even conceive right from wrong without a perfect timeless measuring stick.


    Someone was questioning how this discussion relates to Scouting.  One way it relates to Scouting is that Scouting does NOT require its members to believe that our moral code was dictated by a higher power.  It merely requires a belief in a higher power.  I for one believe that a supernatural force, beyond our comprehension, created the Universe and then probably retreated to the sidelines to watch the show - leaving the creatures on planets that eventually developed “intelligent” life to work out their own moral code(s) the best they could and try to survive in the process.  I do realize that there is no organized religion that believes that, religious members of my own religion don’t believe that, and most members of this forum don’t believe that, but the great thing about Scouting is that I can believe that and still live the Scout Oath and Law at the same time.

    • Upvote 3

  8. On 9/24/2018 at 8:18 PM, SSScout said:

    "We can't join Scouts, we're not Christian". 

    Well, yes, some people seem to think that, and I have had Jewish people tell me that Scouting is a Christian organization as a reason (excuse?) why their sons do not join.  I tell them about the Schiff family and, less famously, my family.  My father became a Boy Scout in 1938 in a troop sponsored by, of all things, a Jewish Community Center, in Bayonne, New Jersey.  The first troop I was in as a Scout was about 30-40% Jewish, and the second was about 60% Jewish.  So where this idea got started I have no idea, but it is a misconception that I have seen first-hand.

  9. On 9/21/2018 at 3:23 PM, SSF said:

    I'm waiting to hear about the troop that has decided to add an additional rank somewhere,...Third Class between TF and 2C, it's probably happened

    That is a suggestion I have made for real, in this forum.  When the most recent made round of advancement requirement changes were made (2016?) I had an issue with turning "Scout" from the "joining badge" into a "rank" and doubling (or so) the number of requirements.  I thought Scout should remain the "joining badge" and have requirements that could be finished at the Scout's second or third troop meeting.  But with the number of requirements for each rank now, that would probably mean creating another rank, and I thought "Third Class" would make the most sense.  Not that I think it is ever going to happen.

  10. 1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

    This is why I'm hoping to see more Scouters start getting involved outside their packs & troops.

    Just for myself, I have no plans to ever get involved at the district or council level.  I have just seen too much "politics" at that level, and they don't seem to treat the volunteers very well, especially the newer ones.  I believe that all of that would get in the way of whatever benefit I could provide.  I suspect I am not the only unit Scouter who feels that way.,

  11. 3 hours ago, Eagledad said:

    Yep, and it supports my deepest concerns of inexperienced adults leading the program.

    It at least shows that they (at least in my council) recognize the issue and are trying to do something about it.  Most likely it is not enough, but it is something.

    3 hours ago, Eagledad said:

    I can't see it going any direction other than Advancement based Eagle Mill camping programs. :(

    It depends on the content and quality of the training.

  12. On 9/22/2018 at 3:17 PM, sst3rd said:

    I would not recommend "linked" troops as this group is already stretched too thin. We're working on recruiting more adult leaders for both the pack and troop.

    This whole thing, at the Boy-Scout-age level, is not going to  work unless and until the parents and other relatives of the girls who want to join, including mothers and other female relatives, step up to plate to become SM's and ASM's for the girl troops.  That is true regardless of whether it is a linked or standalone girls troop.  (I have said that I would be happy to be on a "linked committee" and to serve as Advancement Chair for both troops.  But I would not want our SM or ASM's to be involved with the other troop, beyond maybe one person to service as liaison between the "uniformed leaders" of each unit, because their Scouting time should be undivided.)  And I think the BSA knows that this is only going to work with a substantial number of new leaders dedicated to the girls troops.  My council is running a new training program this fall specifically for new SM's and ASM's who have never been involved in Scouting before.  That can't be a coincidence.

    • Upvote 1

  13. On 9/20/2018 at 4:58 PM, Eagledad said:

    Sadly, we live in a pop political culture where speech is very limited today. You even see it some in this forum....

    I am not sure what freedom of speech has to do with this.  And I disagree with your premise anyway.  Except for specific places like college campuses where the "safe space" movement has gone too far, speech is pretty free in this country.  And in this forum.


    It's on the volunteers now. It will likely be an issue on both sides.

    It is on the volunteers who choose to be involved.  The BSA has made clear that a trans yonuth will be placed in a unit that will welcome them.  When the BSA changed the policy, the 8 year old trans boy who had been rejected by his "home" pack was welcomed by a pack in a different town.


    Anyone who hasn't experienced a call by the lawyer of a parent hasn't felt the full brunt of intimidation yet.  

    You're talking to the wrong guy.   :D

  14. I don't think there was any way the BSA could have "stayed away" from this issue.  It was not like National woke up one day and decided it wanted to let "trans males" join the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts.  (It never would have been an issue with Venturing anyway.)  A boy (using his preferred identification) wanted to join the Cub Scouts, with the approval of his mother.  Based on then-existing policy they were told he can't join because his birth certificate says he is female.  Mom filed a complaint with the New Jersey (it's always New Jersey) Division on Civil Rights, they decided to go after the BSA, and the BSA had to decide whether it wanted to get involved in litigation (again).  They decided not to, and they changed the policy, which (unlike the policy on gay youth) has a local option.  I don't think they did a lot of studying into the concerns you mention.  Basically the policy is that if the parents sign an application saying their child is a boy, he will be admitted as a boy.  And now, with the additional changes in membership policy, the "trans" issue becomes an issue of den or troop placement rather than a real "membership" issue.

    • Upvote 1

  15. i don’t see why this would be a surprise to anyone.  PETA doesn’t believe ANY animal should be used for food by humans.  They are entitled to advocate for their beliefs.  Obviously they are not going to succeed in stopping people from fishing.  Right at the moment their main activity (along with other groups) seems to be saving abandoned pets from drowning in the Carolinas, so thanks to them for that.

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