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Posts posted by NJCubScouter

  1. I can't tell you about the buttons, but the "Cubs B.S.A." over the pocket appears to match this:


    The page says the shirt is from 1940.  And notice the "angling" of the letters on the shirt, matching that on the neckerchief and the button.  I don't think I have ever seen that on a shirt before.  I am going to guess that it didn't look like that by the time I became a Cub Scout in 1966.

  2. It sounds like they were lucky your friend was there, "a little inebriated" or not.  Of course, if her rescue attempt had been unsuccessful, and it became known that she was "a little inebriated," she would currently be going through a nightmare on several levels.  If the GSUSA policy seems a little lax as to drinking "in secret," well, guess what, the current version of the BSA policy on alcohol is no better.  It was a good policy until they re-worded it into a big nothing.

  3. 2 hours ago, Thunderbird said:

    I thought there might be something in The Chartered Organization Representative Guidebook, but it just says that Chartered Org. Reps. have the authority and responsibility to "hire and fire" - it doesn't have any information on the procedures to follow when doing so.

    Internally, I think the CO would just do whatever they do when terminating any other volunteer associated with their organization. The BSA does not impose specific procedures on the CO's for that.  Externally, it would be logical for the CO, having removed a volunteer, to direct the CC to write a letter to Council informing them that the person is no longer affiliated with the unit and should be removed from the charter.  (I don't think you get a refund though.)

    • Thanks 1

  4. 9 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

    No, the guy states that in February 2019, girls will be able to join "Boy Scouts" (his words).

    He goes on to state that "sometime in 2019" we will have our first female Eagle Scouts.

    He clearly implies that girls will be able to join in February and earn their Eagle by the end of the year.

    I think it is just one of a series of misunderstandings, in some cases by people who are paid to know better.

    If the first girls join Scouts USA in Feb. 2019, there is no way any of them can make Eagle in 2019.  Unless time travel is invented between now and then. I know Iowa always wants to be the "first" in everything, but they are going to have to settle for a "tie" this time.

    • Haha 1

  5. 21 hours ago, thrifty said:

    Unfortunately, if it is not stated clearly and precisely somewhere that SM cannot refuse a request for a BC, there is no point in discussing anything further.

    I think it's clear enough.  It is also the case that the decision about whether to accept work previously done is up to the counselor, not the Scoutmaster.  An SM has no say at all in whether a Scout has successfully completed a merit badge, with that one fairly new exception for cases where it is clear that the counselor signed the card but the Scout did not actually complete the requirements.  But that is not what is going on here.

    • Upvote 2

  6. I think the answer is stated clearly enough in the sentence I have bolded below from section of the BSA's Legal Code on Advancement Guide to Advancement 2017.  I have included exerpts of other parts of that section to provide context:

    Quote The Scout, the Blue Card, and the Unit Leader

    A few merit badges have certain restrictions, but otherwise any registered Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, or qualified Venturer or Sea Scout may work on any of them at any time. Before he begins working with a merit badge counselor, however, he is to have a discussion with his unit leader. That a discussion has been held is indicated by the unit leader’s signature on the Application for Merit Badge, No. 34124, commonly called the “blue card.” Although it is the unit leader’s responsibility to see that at least one merit badge counselor is identified from those approved and made available, the Scout may have one in mind with whom he would like to work. The unit leader and Scout should come to agreement as to who the counselor will be. Lacking agreement, the Scout must be allowed to work with the counselor of his choice, so long as the counselor is registered and has been approved by the council advancement committee. However, see “Counselor Approvals and Limitations,”, for circumstances when a unit leader may place limits on the number of merit badges that may be earned from one counselor.

    [Paragraph omitted]

    A unit leader should consider making more of the process than just providing a signature. The opportunity exists to provide inspiration and direction in a young man’s life. Preliminary merit badge discussions can lead to conversations about talents and interests, goal setting, and the concept of “challenge by choice.” The benefits can be much like those of a well-done Scoutmaster conference.

    The discussion a Scout is to have with the unit leader is meant to be a growth-oriented and positive conversation. The unit leader should discuss any concerns related to working on the merit badge and provide appropriate counseling. It is then the Scout’s decision whether or not to proceed with the merit badge. The process is intended to inform the Scout about what he may encounter along the way, and perhaps to give him suggestions on how the work might be approached. It also has the purpose of keeping the unit leader up to date with what the members of the unit are doing.

    • Upvote 1

  7. 16 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    Black robes won't work in my area as we tried once before. Got complaints about the black robes being satanic as well as too reminiscent of the KKK robes.

    Forest green robes?  But that might be too close to the Spiral Scouts, if they still exist.   :)

  8. 4 hours ago, CalicoPenn said:

    I call shenanigans - something just doesn't make any sense about this story at all - this is a single tenant building - just houses the BSA - it would be pretty odd for some random person off the street to park in a random office parking lot, enter the building, and then pretty calmly leave while "eating a cupcake".  Something is fishy about this whole story.

    It does seem strange.  To make it more strange, the video says the woman entered the building at 7:35 p.m. and left an hour later.  Were they really having a staff meeting at that hour?

  9. 12 hours ago, Zebra132 said:

    I was told by Council this age group having sex at Camp was not a YPT concern. 

    It boggles my mind that anyone associated with Scouting would say that.

  10. 2 hours ago, MattR said:

    I had a scout turn 18 on a campout and he asked if had to move out of his tent that night. I asked him if he felt any different than the day before, he said no, I told him there's your answer.

    That may be the common-sense answer, but I don't think its the BSA answer.

    • Upvote 1

  11. 13 minutes ago, MattR said:

    Regalia can also mean ceremonial clothing.

    It's also part of the title of a Frank Zappa song, "Peaches en Regalia," but we'll probably never know what he meant by it, since it's an instrumental and he gave mostly random titles to his instrumentals.

  12. I changed the title of this thread so it was a little clearer what it is about

    On a substantive note, I found this interesting:

    Turley noted that when the girls-allowed policy was announced, “we could have done a better job” explaining the changes.

    A bit of an understatement, but at least he made the effort.

    • Thanks 1
    • Upvote 2

  13. That sounds better than black robes.  I think some people would misunderstand the meaning of the black robes,  regardless of the fact that they were used all those years ago on Treasure Island.  (The actual island, Treasure Island, is in New Jersey.  It is one of two islands that makes up the ex-camp, the other one of which is in Pa.  Just thought I'd mention that.)

    • Thanks 1
    • Upvote 1

  14. 21 hours ago, qwazse said:

    Thought experiment by way of example:

    A recent grad in our district had founded a "Do Something Club" into a service fraternity for young women.

    Strip away your arrowmen's homage to native tribes, then tell me what do you have that's any different than what they have? Lot's of groups claim to offer brotherhood. Many are cheerful. And, many others tout service. A few package that quite nicely. Why should a youth bother with O/A if they can't get a deeper understanding about what we admire the most from the native American mystique?

    I am curious, how would you answer your own question?

  15. 1 hour ago, Mich08212 said:

    it doesnt matter to me who speaks but the council member said I could not MC it. I can host it but, there needs to be a script for the ceremony.

    Well, someone has to invite people to speak, and it should be your son, or at least it should be people he wants to speak and you can do the inviting if that is what he prefers.  As for the MC, there is no absolute rule that says a parent cannot be the MC, but I have never seen it happen.  It would be kind of awkward, at least the way my troop does ECOH's, because during the presentation of the Eagle badge etc. the parents are called up to stand behind their son and he then pins the Mom's and Dad's pins on his parents.  Sometimes the MC will say something about all the support the Scout's parents gave him and he should be thankful to them, etc, etc.  So a parent as MC really would get awkward, kind of like the Woody Allen movie where he is both his own attorney and the witness, and he is physically hopping back and forth every time he changes roles.  Funny in a movie, not at a ceremony.

    In our troop there is a recent tendency for the Scout to choose one of his friends in the troop, or a recent alumnus from the troop, as the MC rather than one of the adult leaders.  Obviously it should be someone who is not afraid to get up in front of a group of people and speak, and who can read from a script in a reasonably articulate manner, and who if something unexpected happens (e.g. it is Mr. Smith's turn to come up and read the Eagle charge or whatever, and Mr. Smith has gone to the men's room) can think on his feet, switch the order of things on the spot or say a few words off the cuff or whatever, rather than falling into little pieces on the floor (which is what would happen with many kids and quite frankly many adults as well.)  Usually this means an older Scout, and it is nice if it is an Eagle but it does not have to be.  (The kids in our troop who have been MC have all done a great job.  One kid who has done it a few times also has some acting experience in high school, which is not a coincidence.)

    And yes, there should be a script.  There are some on the Internet.  If I had one handy I would send it to you, but I don't.  Good luck.

  16. If it were me, I would give up on getting a better explanation and move on.  Someone(s) has an issue with your son.  That's just the way it is.  Maybe you and/or your son have some idea what the issue is, maybe you don't.  I just don't see what can be done about it at this point.  Except that you and your son can organize and carry out his court of honor.  It sounds like there are people in the troop who would probably agree to participate (such as the SM, who can ceremonially award the Eagle pin, certificate etc. to your son and maybe say a few words) and maybe some who won't.  Good luck to your son.

    • Upvote 1

  17. Matt the Life Scout, are you a member of the PLC?  Does the PLC actually have meetings?  I ask this because the PLC can be an agent for change in the troop, more than the average 15-etc.-year-old may realize.  When I hear a discussion among the boys (or when one of them asks me at a BOR or elsewhere) about a change they would like to make in the troop, I always suggest that they talk about it in the PLC, and if a majority of the PLC thinks it's a good idea, they write it up and give it to the SM to give to the committee for consideration.  So far I don't think they have ever taken me up on it, and I have seen a few good ideas drift away because the boys could not devote say 30 minutes of their lives to bringing the issue to the committee's attention.  (In at least one case I brought the idea up at a committee meeting myself, but I thought the others were things that should come to the boys, if at all.)  Matt the Life Scout, if you read my post about what I did in ancient times when I was ASPL, you can do that, assuming you are a member of a functioning PLC.  You can point what the book says about elections.  If the other Scouts agree with you (perhaps over the vote of the current SPL, if he there), you type up the plan and give it to the SM.  And watch what he does with it.  If he takes it to the committee, maybe there will be a change.  If he throws it in the wastebasket, then you have other issues with your troop.

  18. Just now, NJCubScouter said:

    I agree with most of the advice above.  I would also ask you to consider whether there are things that you may not know about the situation.  But from what you say, it does sound like some things are amiss.

    As for the SPL being the son of the SM, I agree with Oldscout448's comments on this subject.  I can tell you from personal experience (as someone who was SPL while his father was SM) that although it is difficult, it can work.  Of course I can't be completely objective about my own situation, and 43 years' time does tend to sand off the bad parts in one's memory, but I think it did work in my case.  The SM has to treat the SPL as just another Scout, as much as possible, which is not easy.  I think my father succeeded in doing it.  I think it would be correct to say that he did expect a little more of me than he would have with another Scout, but that's ok as long as it doesn't go too far, which it didn't in my case. 

    On the other hand, the fact that your SM appointed his own son SPL is a problem, even beyond the lack of elections, and it is no doubt contributing to some of the problems you describe in the SPL's performance.  Prior to my showing an interest in being SPL, the SPL in my troop was appointed (by a combination of the SM and troop committee I believe), not elected.  Shortly after my father became SM, another Scout was appointed SPL and I was appointed ASPL (also by the SM/committee.)  At some point while I was ASPL, my father told me that when the other Scout's term (1 year) was up, he I would not be appointed SPL because of the position it would put him in, and that my other option was for the PLC to recommend a system of elections (term, qualifications, etc.) for consideration by the committee, and then I could run if I wanted to.  So I wrote up a proposal, the PLC agreed to it, the committee agreed to it, and at the end of my predecessor's term I was elected SPL.  So I guess I did have to work a little harder just to get the position than another Scout might have.  But that's ok.  It builds character.

    But enough about me...  :D



  19. 1 hour ago, malraux said:

    Now, by the time one gets to 10 knots they've either worked rather hard to get there, built up a fair amount of political capital to get there, and like some combination of both. Either way, I figure if you are too the point of needing your pocket dropped down to accommodate your knots, who am I to say anything.

    Well, the guy I am talking about has been a member of the BSA continuously since he joined the Cub Scouts at age 8, and I believe he is now 66 or 67, so he has had time to earn his 12 or whatever knots, and I am sure he earned them.  As for me, I have three:  Arrow of Light, Cub Scout Leader Award and Boy Scout Leader Award, and technically that would now be considered two knots, because the last two have been combined into one.

    And more to the point, since I did not start this thread, it sounds like Jillian has three as well, so it isn't an issue.   :)