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NJCubScouter

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Everything posted by NJCubScouter

  1. NJCubScouter

    National Meeting: Affirmation of DRP

    It is now clear to me that the BSA has said that it is a religious organization, and it has also said that it is NOT a religious organization, depending on the legal situation in which they found themselves. Check this out: http://www.foxnews.com/story/2004/01/16/is-boy-scouts-america-religious-organization.html Normally I would not be quoting from Fox News nor would I be quoting Bill O'Reilly, but I have no reason to doubt that the words quoted here were actually said. This demonstrates that the BSA has been inconsistent on this question. It is especially amusing to see the BSA attorney try to dance around the issue, but it eventually becomes clear that he does not think the term "religious organization" should be used for the BSA - even though the BSA has sometimes used the term for itself. For me, I agree with the BSA on the days when it says it is not a religious organization.
  2. NJCubScouter

    Breaking Point

    I think I have actually seen a grid for this in the past - but of course it would be out-of-date now. It was when they decided that Venturing crew members 18-20 were no longer "youth" and were not "adult leaders" but were now considered "adult participants," which resulted in there being (I think) 6 different categories of people for YP purposes.
  3. NJCubScouter

    Breaking Point

    And I think it's getting worse. I am still irritated about them taking a clearly-worded policy on use of alcohol at Scouting events and turning it into a mostly-meaningless mishmash - and at the same time they left the poorly-worded policy on smoking as is.
  4. NJCubScouter

    Breaking Point

    Where does the Lion badge go? No, not THAT Lion.
  5. NJCubScouter

    National Meeting: Affirmation of DRP

    It's right here. In spirit. So to speak.
  6. NJCubScouter

    Can I still become an eagle scout?

    I think what this boils down to is that if you complete your Star Board of Review before your 17th birthday, and your Life Board of Review before your "17.5 birthday," then you have met the time requirements. Of course you also have to complete all the other requirements. Also be aware that for every day that you are still working on Star, you are creating an ever-shrinking window of time in which you must make Life. If you have your Star BOR ON your 17th birthday, then there is only one day on which you can have your Life BOR - the date exactly six months after you turn 17. Not the day before or the day after. And let's hope your birthday isn't Feb. 29. And then this also brings up the question (which almost mattered in my son's case) of whether the last day to complete Eagle requirements is the day before your 18th birthday, or the day of your 18th birthday - I have seen both answers given. I strongly recommend that you not find out. In other words, you want to get Star ASAP, leaving you some room to meet the time requirements (and all the other requirements!) for Life and Eagle.
  7. NJCubScouter

    Breaking Point

    Thanks. I knew the second sentence. I must have missed the change mentioned in the first sentence. That's not good. And I don't get it. An 18-year-old is an adult. I can understand the BSA wanticng at least one person who is a little older, but I don't get the reason for both. And having had three children go through those ages, and having observed some 18-20-year-old ASM's, I really don't think that a typical 21-year-old is leaps-and-bounds more mature than a typicael 18-year-old. Sometimes, not more mature at all. So this means you can still have an 18 year old ASM, and they count as adults for the no one-on-one rule and no-sharing-tents rule, but they don't count as adults for the two-deep rule? Is that basically it? Now I see WonderBoy's point: They actually will be LESS useful than a JASM, because they have turned 18. It also appears to mean that it is pointless to have an 18-20 year old Assistant Den Leader. I have never actually seen one of those, but when I was a Den Leader and my oldest daughter was in that age range, I got her to consider being my ADL. She decided against it, but I am sure it happens, somewhere. Before October 2018. It will still be possible, but I don't see the point of doing it under the new G2SS.
  8. NJCubScouter

    National Meeting: Affirmation of DRP

    Was that in the Dale case? Regardless of whether it was that case or a different one... I will try to put this gently... what the BSA's attorneys evidently told the Supreme Court in the Dale case - as reflected in the majority opinion, which I have read several times - does not serve as what I would call a role model for trustworthiness. So it wouldn't surprise me if they said that too. It was my understanding that the BSA parted ways with both public schools and the military as CO's not necessarily because it was a religious organization that was discriminating, but because it was was an organization that was discriminating on the basis of religion. (The Supreme Court has stated that discrimination against atheists is discrimination on the basis of religion.) A public school or military unit being a CO meant that the government was discriminating on the basis of religion. I could be wrong, but that was my understanding.
  9. NJCubScouter

    Breaking Point

    Can you explain that? Apparently I haven't been paying close enough attention recently... including to some of things posted in this forum, it would appear.
  10. NJCubScouter

    Breaking Point

    I think you are correct, but that still means there is a risk management person(s) somewhere deciding how large the self-insurance fund needs to be, and I am sure that amount is correlated to the perceived total risk - which is affected by issues like the ones we are discussing. I am sure the bigwigs at National would much rather be using as much as possible of that self-insurance fund for other crucial needs - like their own already-inflated salaries. (Hey, who took that cheap shot? He ran away so fast, I didn't see his face...)hInEAgency@gmail.com (I am ignoring the part about the lawyers, since I am one of those. )
  11. NJCubScouter

    Breaking Point

    Or if it's the BSA's insurance company saying, "Your rates are going up 40% (or whatever) unless you require two adults to be at every activity, including meetings." I don't know that to be true, but it's certainly within the realm of plausibility.
  12. NJCubScouter

    Breaking Point

    That might be true in some situations, but not others. If the patrol is going on a day hike, for the adults to be "nearby" also means thrat they are "involved." In other words they are on the hike along with the patrol. I was trying to come up with a way to avoid this, but all I get are jokes. The two adults flying overhead in a helicopter? The patrol is hiking a trail along a riverbank and the two leaders happen to be rowing down the river at the same speed and direction? Nothing serious suggests itself.
  13. NJCubScouter

    Breaking Point

    For awhile, the PLC in our troop was meeting at the SPL's home, after school, on a schedule that they determined. (Without the SM, but that's another subject.) There were no adult leaders there. For part of this time the SPL happened to be the son of the CC, but that doesn't necessarily mean that any parent was home while they were meeting. This was not just a group of friends meeting; they were planning future troop meetings and camping trips, which suggests to me that this was an "official" unit function. Is THAT now going to be prohibited?
  14. NJCubScouter

    National Meeting: Affirmation of DRP

    Let's assume the National Council of Churches is a religious organization. (I'm not really familiar with it so I will take your word for it.) Is the National Conference of Christians and Jews a religious organization? The name suggests it is an organization of people who express a faith, but it is not the same faith. To me it does not meet the definition of a religious organization, for much the same reason as the BSA doesn't.
  15. NJCubScouter

    National Meeting: Affirmation of DRP

    The BSA is not a religious organization. A religious organization has a specific creed relating to God, the Supreme Being, etc. The BSA does not have that.
  16. NJCubScouter

    National Meeting: Affirmation of DRP

    Interestingly, the DRP does not say anything about kicking out Scouts who do not believe in God or some other higher power. I don't think it is even implied. (For adult leaders, it is clearly stated that only persons who are "willing to subscribe to these declarations of principles" are qualified to be leaders. I wonder what percentage of adult leaders don't actually agree with some portion of the DRP.)
  17. NJCubScouter

    Eagle Scout Rank Patch wear after age 18

    I wish they made some things for us Lifes for Life. Not even a Life coffee mug.
  18. NJCubScouter

    National Meeting: Affirmation of DRP

    You want teenagers to declare that they are not the center of the Universe? Good luck with that.
  19. NJCubScouter

    Cost of Being a Scout

    That's one of the reasons why my troop can never keep a good treasurer for very long, especially the part about having to ask parents multiple times to pay dues. Right now our CC is doubling as treasurer, which is not ideal, but on the other hand he just retired so he has a little more time available than most of us.
  20. NJCubScouter

    Cost of Being a Scout

    The National Forests are not exactly distributed evenly around the country. The closest National Forest to me is 3 to 4 hours away. With gasoline now back up to $3 per gallon, and multiple vehicles making the trip, how much are you really saving as opposed to the $100 fee for a site at our council camp for the weekend? (I'm actually guessing at the $100 part, but it's probably somewhere around there.) There are some "free" campsites. I believe you can still camp along the AT basically for free, and a good stretch of it is within say 90 minutes of my home. But I don't think too many troops go backpacking every month, either.
  21. NJCubScouter

    Cost of Being a Scout

    Shortridge, you're saying $1,080 per year plus equipment, Qwasze is giving an estimate of $100 per month ($1,200 per year), I think you're both in the right ballpark. Since you say you're lowballing it, $1,100-$1,200 is probably the right range. Part of it depends on how you view operating costs (summer camp, meals for weekend camping trips, etc.) vs. "capital expenditures" (uniform, handbook, personal camping equipment, etc.) You also have to consider whether the registered adult leaders are paying their own registration fees or whether it is coming out of the dues (which means the dues may have to be higher.) You also need to consider whether all 11 of those camping trips are going to be "standard" overnighters (i.e. rent a cabin or a campsite at a BSA camp, state park or somewhere else with reasonable rates), or whether there are going to be any "special trips." About twice a year our troop does something "special" like going to one of the military academies and taking the tour plus going to a football game (we are about halfway between West Point and Annapolis), "camping" on the Battleship New Jersey, camping at Knoebel's amusement park in Pa., or something like that. Between the tickets to get into whatever you're going to, the food and everything else, those trips always seem to cost in the $50-60 range per person.* This of course means that the cost is under your control to some degree, but you get what you pay for. Back when the economy was tanking I gently suggested that we may want to ease up on the $50-60 trips, but I don't think we did. Then there is the question of absolute cost vs. relative cost. If a youth is not doing Scouting, what else is he/she doing, and what does it cost? There are plenty of ways to spend more than $475 for a week of activities during the summer. Or the kid can sit at home like a lump for 8 straight weeks, which costs only the price of electricity for playing video games. But most people don't regard the latter option as being desirable. *I guess I should mention that that estimate is as of 2009, which is when my son aged out and I basically "retired" from camping. Some of those trips probably cost more now.
  22. NJCubScouter

    Why Not Girl Guides?

    I looked briefly and found this: http://www.bsaonsc.org/familyscouting.html Admittedly this is a council site, but the "parallel (separate) girl program for ages 11 to 18" is what National was talking about last fall. I will try later to find something directly from National. There probably are relevant links in discussions in this forum from last fall, but the content of the linked pages may have changed in the meantime.
  23. NJCubScouter

    COs without meeting space

    One of the troops in my area is chartered to a "Friends of..." entity, but they have been able to arrange to use one of the public school gyms for their weekly meetings, and they have also arranged with one of the local churches for storage space.
  24. NJCubScouter

    Neckers back in the "news"

    Yes, let’s please keep it to neckerchiefs. Not every thread needs to be turned into an ideological discussion.
  25. NJCubScouter

    Why Not Girl Guides?

    I usually wouldn’t passs up an opportunity to accuse National of money-grubbing, but I don’t understand your point. Why wouldn’t they want more volunteers, when each new volunteer represents a new registration fee? And there are going to have to be more volunteers anyway, and many of them are going to have to be women. I have no inside information, but if I had to guess why they didn’t create a separate program, it would be that in designing the separate program, they encountered too many issues and decisions that would have to be made, and they just decided to make their lives easier and include girls in the existing program.
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