NJCubScouter

After reading FScouter's comments, I want to clarify my earlier answer. My point was that the Scoutmaster is wrong to make his request. That does not mean that you want to have a confrontation with him. As FScouter says, diplomacy is called for, and as jmcquillan says, it might be appropriate to have an adult intermediary deal with the scoutmaster. Usually Scouts should be able to deal directly with the scoutmaster, but that assumes that the scoutmaster is acting in his proper role of teacher, advisor, counselor, role model, mentor, etc. Even disciplinarian, when necessary, if it is somet

Assuming that this is a serious question: With all due respect to your Scoutmaster, it seems to me that what you really need is not six "long-haired" Eagle Scouts, but a Scoutmaster who requires you to meet the actual requirements for Eagle and doesn't add to them. As for "long hair," I don't even know what that means. I grew up in the 60s and 70s, when long hair went from meaning anything that wasn't a crew-cut to hair that went down to someone's waste and in some cases was not kept in, shall we say, a healthy condition. In high school I had what would be considered "long hair" today. (I

Ed Mori, you say a discussion of the ACLU does not belong in a Scouting forum but then immediately discuss it, with your comment that "The ACLU is neither American or about liberty." Is this consistent? On the issue you raise, I think an argument can be made that discussions of issues directly related to the First Amendment and the rest of the Bill of Rights (which includes the placement of the 10 Commandments on public property and most of the issues dealt with by the ACLU) do have at least peripheral relevance to Scouting. One of the aims of Scouting is to teach and promote citizensh

cjmiam, could you please sing "Far, Far, Away"?

While I was reading this thread, y'all have added a page! IMHO, you folks need to get off the computer and go Scouting with your Troops/Packs/Crews! Go camping, go hiking, go jump in a lake! I have only been here a for a couple of weeks, and I, too, have noticed that several people seem to have quite a bit of time on their hands. Let's see, Monday night I went to a meeting of a school district committee to evaluate the need for new facilities; Tuesday night I went to a school board meeting; last night I had a pack and den leaders' meeting; tonight I went to pick up the Pinewood Derby tro

OldGreyEagle, perhaps not so old and grey, says: I may be old and grey and dont always remember things as I should, but wasnt Oliver North the guy who LIED to congress about Iran-Contra ? And later he admitted he LIED to Congress based on his belief he was right? Yes, you remember correctly; in fact, the article you were responding to says: North, a former national security adviser to President Reagan, was convicted of a quintet of charges that included conspiracy, making false statements to Congress and obstructing congressional inquiries into the Iran-Contra affair. As th

Re: the news article about Ollie North: Someone stated earlier that this subject (the constitutionality of placing the 10 commandments on public land) is of questionable relevance to Scouting, and it seems to me that the discussion is getting further and further afield. If the article about North is relevant to Scouting because he spoke at a Boy Scout luncheon, that would seem to be appropriate to a folder on Events In The Councils or something like that, if there is one, and this presumably would be outside the Issue and Politics area. But I am not the folder police, and would not want to

OK DedicatedDad, I'll take you on your word that your use of "publik" instead of "public" was completely unintentional, after all, a Scout is trustworthy, and as I said before, I don't comment on typos or spelling since I make my own share of errors. I was just wondering, since I don't recall ever seeing you misspell anything else.

ScouterPaul, I believe that slontwovvy drew you into this in error; the statement he seems to attribute to you (95 percent agreement with the BSA, as well as the ACLU) was actually made by me. So I'll take the heat for it. I do, however, fully agree with your post, ScouterPaul, although it may appear otherwise. You say: I stand for 100% of what Boy Scouts Stand for. I am however against the few who choose to make their personal predjudices those of the BSA. And I say I agree with the BSA about 95 percent -- the 5 percent being those 1 or 2 issues on which the BSA has adopted

DedicatedDad, I notice that four times in a fairly short post, you spell "public" with a "k" instead of a "c" at the end. Now, I learned many years ago that it is poor online etiquette to point out typos and spelling errors in other peoples' posts, so if that is what it is, please excuse the interruption. However, since you never once spell it with a "c" (at least not in that particular post), I have to wonder whether it is intentional, and if so, why you do that. Maybe your computer keyboard is starting to short out. I have seen ultra-left-wing-radicals spell "America" with a "k" instead

bigbear says: Through discussion, I know the parents of our Troop do not want the boys exposed to the homosexual lifestyle in the Scouting environment. Me, too. Unanimous. Nor do I. I don't think parents want their sons exposed to ANY sexual lifestyle in the Scouting environment, whether it be gay or straight. And it is interesting, and not mentioned often enough, that in the case that went to the U.S. Supreme Court, James Dale NEVER "exposed" the boys in his troop to the "homosexual lifestyle." There is nothing in the court opinion to suggest that anyone connected with the troop

DedicatedDad says: The ACLU is not pro Scouts either. And yet, here I am, having been at various times a member of both. (I let my ACLU dues lapse awhile back.) I agree with each about 95 percent of the time. But somehow, the BSA has managed to make the focus of everyone outside the organization that small fraction in the middle where the two organizations disagree.

I agree with ScouterPaul that what is considered "moral" by a consensus of society does change over time. And you need not go back as far as slavery. In the chosen year of 1910, society in general had no real problem with discrimination against racial minorities and women. Segregation, denial of basic civil liberties including the right to vote, discrimination in employment, none of these things were considered "wrong," or if you will, "immoral." Some people fought against these things even then, but there was no societal consensus that they were wrong. In some states, it was actually ille

OldGreyEagle writes: I am not sure how important this is, but was the monument to be publicly or privately financed? It is difficult to know how important that fact would be. As the article suggests, the state of the law on this subject is so fragmented that it is difficult to predict what the ruling would be on any set of facts. It would literally depend on which state supreme court or federal appeals court is the last one to hear the case, because 6 justices of the U.S. Supreme Court are enough to decide that the case will not be heard at the highest level. In the semi-long-run

cjmiam says: hmmmm... while things have quieted down, I think I'll sing. This is my favorite verse. Sing along with me now Our fathers' God, to thee, author of liberty, to thee we sing; long may our land be bright with freedom's holy light; protect us by thy might, great God, our King. Animatedly, cjmiam "Now go do the right thing" Dr. Laura I personally would like to thank cjmiam for reminding us of God's role in all this. I personally would not want to be the current BSA executive board members, or the leaders of certain religious organizati

First of all, it sounds to me like perhaps too much weight is being placed upon this Cubmaster -- perhaps by the other parents in the pack not being active, and perhaps by the Cubmaster herself in not knowing how to accept help and how to use volunteers, and most likely a combination. My pack has a similar problem, though not to the degree you describe. So what I did was look through your post with an eye to, What tasks is this Cubmaster trying to perform, or being expected to perform, that someone else should be handling? As I am sure you know, the Cubmaster is in charge of carrying

DedicatedDad, I have a question for you. Don't worry, it is not about whether you know any gays or whether you had any disturbing childhood experiences. My question gets back to the original theme that tjhammer started this thread with, and that I joined in on, which is local option. You have repeatedly attempted to equate homosexuality with bestiality and with adult incest, and you argue that the BSA policies on these orientations/behaviors should be the same. Without debating that point, let's say for purposes of this discussion that I agree. Let's treat homosexuality like we treat

Bob Russell, who I take it is a fellow attorney, says: The application that I signed a long time ago contained no policy regarding homosexuals that I recall. Nor did the one I signed less than 2 years ago (after the Dale decision.) Nor does the one that I had our new committee chairman sign last week. It's just not there. So to determine the exact rules and policies that we are to follow, I went to the BSA website and searched it for BSA's policy regarding homosexuals. I confess I could not find one. Imagine that, the most important policy in the public eye and it's not clearl

None (in my pack, you said troop but I assume you meant all units.)

dan says: There has been something bothering me about these and I could not figure it out until last night, it seems that some of the people I see debating only post in this forum. I never see them in any of the other forums on this board. It makes me wondering if they are really scouters! or just someone trying to stir things up. You can't be talking about me, I have been on here less than a week and my third post was in the Uniforms area, about the new Webelos hat. (My son's verdict: More comfortable, but why is it so ugly?) As for really being a Scouter, I just got back from d

Hey, I see I am a "Junior Forum Member" now. Thanks, scouter.com, it has been a long, LONG time since I was called a junior anything. Though I know that with the passage of time, this honor will be yanked away as well.

DedicatedDad opines: Yep, that elusive morally straight thing is pretty weak if you choose to accept the practice of perversion as virtuous behavior. As I assume you have figured out by now, I do not agree that homosexuality is intrinsically immoral. Therefore, a gay person can promise to be "morally straight" without being dishonest. I don't think the meaning of "straight" as "heterosexual" was even dreamed of when the words "morally straight" were made part of the oath. "Morally straight" means to be of good character, an upstanding person, honest, a good egg, a mensch, etc. I

Scouter Paul writes: Tread carefully NJ or you will be labeled a troll. Not to worry, someone called me that once on America Online when I first started posting. I ignored it and kept on stating my opinions. I have learned to take a little name-calling in stride, after all I have 2 teenaged daughters. I actually enjoy it when people call me names in a debate, it just demonstrates the lack of substance in their arguments.

For about a year on America Online, I have been pushing the idea of "local option" on gay leadership. The folks there who favor the current discriminatory policy were never really able to tell me why they opposed this, other than a few weak comments about "sharing a campsite with the 'gay troop' at the camporee." It is interesting to see that the group here is much more animated on the subject, but I find the reasoning just as weak. I read here that "local option" will be the end of nationwide standards on everything from leadership criteria, training and advancement to all of the other

In my (admittedly limited) experience, the interest in starting and/or continuing a unit comes from the parents, and specifically from a very small group of parents, of the boys in the unit or prospective unit. As others have said, the chartered organization often fills that role as an accomodation to the leaders and the boys, not because the impetus to start the unit came from the CO. The one time I have seen a unit start up as an adult, it was entirely the work of the Cubmaster of a pack (the one I am now CA of) from which his son was about to graduate. He decided to form a troop for his