NJCubScouter

I have to tell you, I am not prone to cry, but I felt at least a small twinge when I got to their part where the boy thought he was a Scout. He apparently is of the right age to be a Tiger (or maybe in a Wolf den), and I think he should be. I'd like him to be placed in the custody of some uncle or grandparent who isn't a thief, and preferably one who lives in my town, so he can join my pack and really be a Scout. He obviously needs some adult examples who are not his biological parents, and he probably needs some friends as well.

Rooster says: Do you understand that prior to Christ that there was a spiritual wall between us and God? Rooster, do you understand that your question (it's really a statement) is offensive to Jewish people? Jews do not believe that there is a wall between them and God.

First of all: I think this is to kwc: Israel is very concerned about Iraq and has been for a longer period than the U.S. Others have mentioned the Scud attacks during the Desert Storm, when Israel sat idly by at our request, while deadly missiles rained down on its soil. I was very upset about that, but I understood at that time that it was important to keep the "coalition" together. There will be no such coalition this time, even if we do have a few allies (UK, Poland, Qatar, whoever) helping us out. We should never ask an ally to do what we asked Israel to do back then. Also d

Kwc, I agree on the neckerchiefs. If a Cub Scout with a knotted neckerchief is the mark of a fraud, I've been seeing several imposters at every pack meeting. Seriously, I agree with the title of the thread: Who needs this? Who can even explain this? Theft is one thing, but to use your own son as a tool to commit a crime... it's just creepy. I wonder if these people should have their child taken away and placed elsewhere. I don't say that lightly; I believe that these days, child protection agencies sometimes (often?) intervene when they should not. But this is one of those very

Its Trail Day asks: Could the BSA use of the word 'avowed' with no applied definition be a way to have local option on this question without calling it that? Personally, I think the answer to that is, No. I think the Dale case supports that conclusion. There is no mention that his troop was ever consulted. Once the council found out, he was sent a letter saying (in essence) that his association with the BSA and any of its units was terminated. Now, one might say, his sexuality was basically announced in the newspaper, they couldn't just "look the other way." But that sort of pro

I think the "Rosa Parks" analogy is an interesting one. Ms. Parks was indeed a courageous woman. But notice, she did not have the option (as TJ does) of concealing the characteristic that caused people to discriminate against her. Everybody could see that she was black, and therefore by the "law" of the bus company, she had to stand in the back of the bus. For the same reason, actual laws prevented her from going certain places, educating her children as they should have been educated (probably), exercising her right to vote (probably), and many other things. The "rules" of society dictat

Ed says to me: NJ, I don't mean to sound mean spirited but who really cares what you believe in this case. Well, Ed, it sounds to me like you succeeded in sounding mean spirited, regardless of whether you meant to or not. We could all take the attitude of who-cares about what the other person thinks, but then what would be the point of having the discussion. TJ posted he has told other Scouters he is gay. If that isn't avowed then I don't know what is. Not to sound mean-spirited or anything, but I'll partially agree with you: You don't know what it is. From TJ's des

Acco, it sounds to me like the remedy, both for this boy and the others who may be affected, would be to have a conversation with the registrar's boss. She is adding an age requirement for rank that clearly does not exist.

Acco, I think you are correct, but I also think I know what your registrar is confused about. As you say, there are 3 options for joining a troop: Be 11 years old, have completed fifth grade (by which time almost any boy will be at least 10.5), or earn Arrow of Light. So if the boy is under 10.5, the Arrow of Light would be the way he gets in. Here is requirement 1 for Arrow of Light: Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge. So, it's an either-o

I think the original post suggests that this is not a matter of leaving early to go to religious services. It says the boy and his father have "a different excuse every time." Let's give the writer the benefit of the doubt and assume that he is not referring to religious services as an "excuse," much less a different excuse every time. This is an example of something I have noticed in this forum, and mentioned once or twice. Some people tend to assume that the thread-starter has not told the whole story, and they add in facts that change the answer. Why do some of us do that? Can't

I have to admit that I do not watch Rather, Jennings, Brokaw, etc., so I have no opinion on whether they present the news in a biased manner. I am somewhat suspicious about the fact that the claims of "liberal bias" in these shows are always made by conservatives. But I don't think it matters. The range of news sources is now so broad and diverse that the claims of "liberal bias," if they were ever correct, have become irrelevant. I get most of my news from the Internet, basically its the Associated Press and Reuters wires, and I think most people would agree that those services are fa

Rooster says: What's truly disheartening is not TJ's confession, but the responses of his supporters - fellow Scouters who are not plagued by unnatural desires, just perverse politics. Uh huh. "Perverse politics." Rooster, don't you think it's possible that some of us simply do not believe that homosexuality, in and of itself, is immoral? Why would we support a policy of excluding people whose conduct is not immoral?

TJ asks: if this were a matter of principle, how am I more desirable to BSA as a "closeted" homosexual than as an "open homosexual"? This relates to something I have discussed a few times. If it were up to me to choose whether a leader in my son's troop were a "closeted" gay person or openly gay (though not discussing his/her sexuality with the boys), I would choose "openly" every time. (That is, assuming he/she could be openly gay without getting booted out.) TJ, I do not mean to disparage you, obviously I do not know you or how you have dealt with your own situation, but my observat

TJ: First of all, wow. You sure know how to liven up a discussion. I had mostly stepped away from this whole subject, because it was the same old arguments with the same old people, over and over, round and round and round. I personally think that the bit about genetics really took us off the track. I think you have added something new to talk about. What do you think, 15 pages or so for this thread? Obviously the main issue here is, what is "avowed." My assumption has always been that it basically the same thing as "out," though only if you have "outed" yourself. In other word

Littlebillie, if you believe that a scientific finding that homosexuality is genetic would make a difference to certain people, I suggest that you think back to some of the discussions that have taken place in this forum regarding evolution. Some of the same people who are the most insistent that homosexuality is immoral, were the ones taking the position that the theory of evolution cannot possibly be correct, because it contradicts the Bible. In other words, the Bible wins over science every day of the week. How prevalent this attitude is within the BSA as a whole, I'm not sure, but I'm a

Just a note on "Supremes": On a number of occasions I have heard attorneys refer to the U.S. Supreme Court as "the Supremes." I wasn't sure if it was just a New Jersey thing or what. I do not think that it is necessarily a term of disrespect. It is a more of a shorthand; when an attorney says "the Supremes" other attorneys know that he/she is NOT referring to the New Jersey Supreme Court or any other state supreme court; it means THE Supreme Court: the Supremes. Is there a bit of a joke behind it? Sure. To my recollection, attorneys who refer to "the Supremes" are almost always of

First of all, I am assuming here that this boy is in the fifth grade. If so, sometime in February through April is the time to crossover. I am not sure if this is "official" anywhere, but it is the right answer. This is a subject of great interest to me, because my son is 11 years old (since October), is a Citizen badge and a couple other requirements away from Arrow of Light, and is the only Webelos 2 in the pack. (The Webelos den this year is a combined den, though with about 15 Webelos 1's (I know, they should have had 2 dens) and my son. The other boys in my son's year drifted awa

The whole thing with the Unitarians is one of the ways the BSA violates its own declaration of religious principles. That declaration says that the BSA is "non-denominational" in its approach to religion. It is not. If your denomination believes gays have the same rights as everybody else, and should not be excluded, and your denomination says so, you are penalized by not having your award approved for wear on the BSA uniform. That is not non-denominational. One type of religious belief is being favored over another.

My understanding is that a unit checkbook is supposed to be in the hands of the unit treasurer, who is a member of the unit committee. (The unit being the troop in this case.) Ideally, two signatures should be required on checks, but again, both of these should be committee members (for example, the committee chair and treasurer.) If the CO insists on handling the checkbook and writing the checks, then the person doing that is effectively your treasurer. If you have to go through a lot of bureacracy within the CO to get a check written from the troop checkbook, then in effect the "bureacra

OK, Kwc, let's get this straight. (Maybe this should be in the "How well do you remember the 60's and 70's" forum, if there was one.) The little girl in the big chair, by Lily Tomlin (on Laugh In) was "Edith Ann." Lily Tomlin's other major character that I remember was Ernestine, the telephone switchboard operator. Gilda Radner had a number of running characters on Saturday Night Live, including both Emily Litella and Rosanne Rosannadanna. They were probably the two main "Weekend Update" characters of hers. Gilda Radner also did "Baba Wawa" (Barbara Walters) and "Lisa Lupner" in t

Kwc says: Or how about leave it as it is and let everyone stay on campus, do their own thing and leave them alone. Because it's not their property or money. It's state property and money, and university property and money. The state and university rules say you can't discriminate on our property and using our money. These groups don't want to follow the same rules as everybody else. It seems to me that this argument is often used by people trying to keep gays out of the BSA. But here, it actually applies. Let these groups discriminate on their own property and with their own mo

I take it from what you say that you are an adult leader, as opposed to a member of the age 14-18 group. The first question that comes to my mind is, in the UK do you follow the concept that units should be "boy run"? (Or maybe boy and girl run at the age level you are talking about.) In the US, a Venture Crew (ages 14-21) is run to a very large extent by the youth members. Boy Scout troops (ages 11-17) are also boy-run, though there is likely to be more adult involvement. But in either case, the proper role of an adult leader would not involve being "loud." You would be guiding the boys

Well, it's nice to see my alma mater in the news again. (If you'll recall, the Rutgers Gay Alliance was the organization of which James Dale was an officer, which set in motion the events that led to the Supreme Court case. At least that was their name when I was there, long before Mr. Dale; I worked at the college newspaper across the hall from their office in the Student Center.) I have read this article and the similar ones linked in the other thread. I think it's much simpler than all this. It's a state university, therefore a government agency. A religious organization should no

Here's another variation: Our Blue and Gold dinner is not a regular pack meeting, AND we do NOT have a regular pack meeting at all that month. We also do not have a regular pack meeting the preceding month, which is the Pinewood Derby. I do not like this because it means that after the December pack meeting, we do not have a regular pack meeting until March. (This year due to room availability issues, we do have a regular meeting in January, Pinewood Derby in February, and Blue and Gold in late March, with a regular meeting in April. I am not particularly happy about B&G being in Marc

OK, a third post, because I see you responded to sctmom. You mention "outside" patches or whatever. In my opinion, the Sports and Academics program (the belt loops and pins) is the "outside" awards program. They just came out with a new guidebook for that program, and I think they added between 5 and 10 new subject areas. There is enough in there to keep any boy buried in awards forever. I don't think there's enough room on a belt for all the belt loops. The boys love getting those, as you probably know.