MrsSmith

Not being a mass murderer myself, and not knowing any to ask personally, I'll repeat what I have read (probably on the internet, so it must be true!). Those who are killing in the name of Allah think they have a religious obligation to rid the world of infidels (non Muslims), either through forcing conversion or killing them. Children, are better off dead than growing up to be infidels by choice. They believe the children are innocent and therefore, killing them sends them straight to heaven. I actually think I read that in connection with one of the Israeli/Palestinian suicide/murders involving children. Where do they come up with beliefs like that while other more moderate Muslims deny those obligations exist?

Well, read through the book of Judges sometime. Jehovah ordered the Hebrews to slay entire cities of pagans: men, women, children, born and unborn, and even their animals. Does that mean we should be killing unbelievers, too? HIS ways are incomprehensible to us.

Thank you all for the information. I tried to research this issue on my own. I am reading thread through "Let's play Unit Commissioner", but it wasn't quite what I needed to know.

"Too often unit commissioning is used as a bullpen for scouters who were not the right fit for any other position". Does that include volunteers you want to get out of the way or subtly render ineffectual? In other words, does this usually end up being just a title without any influence? Also, can one be a UC and committee member, too? Finally, with whom does the UC directly interface at the unit level, the COR, CC, or the SM or none of the above.

Thank you for your insight, Fuzzy Bear.

And why would one want this job. Or why not.

Does anyone out there speak from experience.

WOW. Its about time FOG got spanked. Goodbye FOG.

Welcome back Bob White.

Thanks for asking. He had fun and he finished summer camp with Lifesaving, Environmental Science, Wilderness Survival and election to Order of the Arrow. He had a partial in Camping. That prompted a patrol camping/canoe trip to complete requirement #9 by the merit badge makeup day. With that out of the way, summer was a huge success for our house. Ready for fall. Personal Fitness is on the agenda.

This issue of what the BSA insurance covers and when its covered seems to be part urban legend. Is there a lawyer in the house?

nldscout, what is "scouts-L" please.

While we are on the subject: Warning: as of July 27th BoyScouts.com had a link to porn in its Troop Websites section. A very unpleasant experience to say the least. That's one problem you don't have here.

"Patrol planned and executed activities where no adult is present or required to be present"

Would these scouts be covered by the BSA medical and liability insurance?

I believe this is a problem in our modern society in general. I don't know if we are ruder than we used to be or just busier. My experience in the last 20 years has been that no one RSVPs to written invitations anymore, people say they will come on the phone and then don't or they show up unannounced. Many times these party crashers want to come and go as they please and don't want to pay for the event. My son's patrol had been planning a weekend camping trip for a month and he had difficulty getting 3 out of the 6 boys to commit. It was finalized 2 days before the event, and only after he called them every night. One boy wanted to back out at the last minute because a friend invited him to a party. Thank heaven, his dad balked because they had already paid for this trip.

I think Silver Shark is right - next time offer an incentive to reserve early.

Google this phrase for several interesting articles discussing this theory. The gist is that the stage of development called "adolescence" was unknown until the 20th century; actually 1904. For thousands of years of human history, when a young person reached age 12 or 13, they "put away" childhood and became young adults with adult responsibilities. Compulsory education and child labor laws which made young people unproductive burdens on the poor and middle class required social re-engineering and, hence, the invention of adolescence. The experiment of age-segregation in school (as opposed to the one room school house of the 19th century) and Darwinism (micro-evolution) were touted as proof of the need for this interim phase of personal development. Organizations sprang up to keep idle adolescents busy. Voila: Boy Scouts.

I filed one. It was actually painless; the ladies at the office were very helpful and sympathetic. Thanks for the ammunition.

Under 12 years of age, child endangerment. Over 12, unfortunate accident.

I know you all think I am a nitwit (are we permitted to call ourselves names under the new rules?) for asking these questions. In How to get Rid of the Scoutmaster I jumped into this forum, desperately seeking help to correct the problems our troop has, chiefly, Old Guard who are used to running things their way (a camping club). Filing a Tour Permit would cramp ones style if one were not following BSA guidelines for Safe Scouting, Youth Protection, etc. That pretty much sums it up. Thanks for all the information.(This message has been edited by MrsSmith)

What are the pros and cons of applying for a tour permit? Some have said I should not apply for one for an upcoming Boy Scout canoeing trip. Are they often rejected? What happens if you go anyway? Where is Bob White when you need him?

Good thread, Eamonn. I have often wondered how people explain their beliefs and behavior to their kids. As for the lines between right and wrong becoming blurred, those who don't see the lines, deny there are lines. And I do think more and more people don't see the lines; That is scary.

Wow, this is heavy for 6 a.m.

"But there are just too many bad feelings for me to continue to serve with people who show me no respect"

I feel change in the air. As for going quietly, to me it would depend on your purpose behind telling those left behind. Because emails have to be kept short, please try and imagine the look of genuine empathy on my face. Is your purpose

to help fix the problem. Why? You're leaving it.

to warn others there are problems. They know.

take others with you. Let your boy tell his friends.

take revenge. Now that's a reason I understand. My parting shots would be in direct proportion to how much I personally had invested in the troop divided by the chance I will need to interact with these people again. Ye Olde Burned Bridges theory.

Good Luck.

Any chance that there are enough disgruntled families to change the troop, instead of changing troops? Don't discount the resolve of mothers who believe their families' time is being wasted. Last year we knew there was something wrong with our troop, too. I did not know where to start, so I came here early this year looking for answers. I got lots of suggestions. Among them were, study the material, get trained yourself, and then dig in. I found other families who were unhappy that the troop was not following the program. We took over the Committee, tied the Committee Chair to his Lazy Boy, got rid of the old Scoutmaster, insisted that one adult in each family register as a volunteer and get some basic training. We came up with a troop guidebook to put some of these things in writing (more difficult to ignore written guidelines). We recruited a new Scoutmaster who is committed to a BOY RUN and things are going great now. It can be done. If you are willing to leave, what do you have to lose by trying to change things first?

Done.

Boleta, I am so glad to straighten that out. I understand completely what you are saying.

OGE, I look forward to seeing this new "no bickering" rule in action. I think I agree in principal but I am just not sure what it means in practice. Can you explain it any better.

Boleta, I accept your er..uh.. apology. I suppose I am being a little "I told you so"-esqe. I agree that FOG seems more like a Tribble than the BORG when compared with JasonOK. (Although, I don't know if the late Bob White would agree.) But as we have all seen, a slippery slope is a dangerous place. And the Tribbles did threaten the ship, slowly but surely.

I am confused though. Are you saying that squelching FOG in particular was an unAmerican attitude? Or ignoring someone whose conduct was absolutely unacceptable? Or trying to persuade others to join, i.e., making a campaign out of it? Or option "other".

Dear Hops:

That's interesting. I'm sorry that you perceived my last post as a "personal attack" on you. I do think "I wont tolerate it" (sic) is an ironic choice of words given the subject. But you're the boss now.

OGE:

Thanks. Maybe I can once again recommend this website to our Scouts for resources.

When I finally got up the courage to post something about the name calling here, many members called me unAmerican, said they were ignoring me and "turning this against me" (Hops, that hurt). I, like others, really was looking for solutions to real life problems in our troop and did not want to wade through the sewage to get answers. But, hey, I don't need to be insulted by strangers on the internet. I can get that at work or from the cashier at McDonald's. So I pretty much faded back into lurker status.

Congratulations. Now Scouter.com is R rated - you have posters quoting Sir Mix-a-Lot! (I could just throw up. Can't that post be erased?) You have Senior members leaving because of the hate speech that has been allowed to pass in decent company as free speech. And amusingly, people are now using the "IGNORE THIS USER" function to shut down posts that makes FOG sound like a Mary Tyler Moore.

Maybe a spanking was not such a bad idea. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

I, for one, am glad there is a place where people quote the rules, Chapter and Verse. In fact, I wish the rules were clearer sometimes. For example, clear definitions of some important phrase, like "serve actively" would be helpful. But for the most part, after reading this forum, if people choose to ignore the rules, at least they do it with open eyes, and not out of ignorance.

As an aside, I agree some people could use a little more tact (myself included). I do believe, though, the general civility level on this forum has been improved. I appreciate that, too.