Gone

Rationale by its very nature is subjective. You have policy which should be stated. You have process which should be outlined. You should always follow policy and process. Where there is no process it is acceptable to make up your own, provided you follow policy and don't go against the stated process. That's what councils do now. That's why you have differences: a lack of end to end process.

 

For rationale you'd have to ask each council.

We are doing it.  We got samples and they look good.

It's good quality. The stuff we have has lasted a long time and weathered well.

Good question. I have no answer that does not include my well know vitriol for district.

 

The last few OA meetings our rep attended were run by the adults. Long time guy who lives for those meeting as a soapbox. Misses the point, and his boyhood, entirely. Been that way for ten years now. That as why we focus on the unit not district.

 

So in a phrase I think your answer is: Overbearing adults who get off on power. That's why everything is done as a unit. Power.

@@JoeBob nailed it.

 

@@TAHAWK, I've seen just as many arrogant WBers as I have untrained clueless SMs. Both are condescending as heck. I prefer the latter since the former should know better...but don't. They get off thinking they're the smartest kids in class. They're usually wrong.

If the training was any good, there would be fewer complaints.   But it usually stinks.  

 

Summary:   content is tedious and of little practical benefit; courses take too long; training cadres tend to be full of themselves and show little respect for the attendees.

 

Give scouters some credit.   They know a waste of time when they see it.   They know they need training.   But they won't tolerate mediocrity and disrespect.

Exactly!!! The training is usually dry, off point, and taught by someone who thinks they know they skill but merely took a class and was "certified" by BSA.

 

I've take. Trainers edge. Learned little. Learned more in grad school about presenting and teaching. Those with zero skills might pick up something but to retake the same training every three years is silly.

 

And yes professions do ask you to take continuing Ed. Few ask you to retake classes which you have already taken. That's why they call it continuing Ed and not repetitive Ed.

<<

But what does this mean? How does any of this help the units? How does any of this further the goal of scouting? From my experience "district goals" have been more around JTE than anything substantial felt at the unit level.

 

I was looking for concrete program ideas and execution by "good districts" which help the units.>>

 

 

Things that districts should be doing to aid units:

 

 

1. Effective Unit Commissioners

 

2.  Effective Cub Scout and Boy Scout Roundtables

 

3.  District activities units can participate in such as Klondike Derby, Cub Scout Day Camp and district organized Cub Scout activities

 

4.  Assistance with Rechartering and recruiting

 

What do effective commissioners do?

 

What would effective RTs do? What would they consist of?

 

District and council screw up my recharter paperwork. If they stay out of the way I get it done first pass. When they get involved -- which they do only to get what they want out of my unit -- they lose stuff, screw it up or otherwise delay it.

 

Not trying to be argumentative. Just trying to define what "effective" means. I could get behind an organization that provides value to my unit. Those who waste my time, offer things I don't need and require more from me that takes away from my unit are organizations I don't need.

Part? My guess is that's the part Skeptic was referring to. So maybe it's not a "total" lack of Scout spirit, just a partial lack.

 

Right. So BSA followed the oath and law with how they handled this whole situation? Those pushing for the policy change were acting scout-like? Please.

 

As I said, there's plenty of unscout like thoughts and emotions going on here...from everyone. Let's not hide behind false piety.

Don't use any social media for the troop.

 

Smoke signals?

 

It took me a long time to find a BALOO class I could make.  they weren't offered very often

Have not taken OWL for the same reason

and it looks like IOLS will be hard to get too....

they mainly offer these is in the school season, and usually it seems this time of year when we are most busy with pack stuff.

Not that they could necessarily get all of one of these courses in on a roundtable, they could piece it out it segments maybe....

 

a bull session

3-5 minutes of announcements or whatever

then break out to something useful, like this.

 

Odd, because our local CERT and S&R training teams teach during the week on a week-by-week basis just like RT. They push through about 20-40 people in each class 3-4 times a year....all with volunteers.

 

You'd think a volunteer driven organization like BSA could do at least a few session a year not in the middle of back to school, sports and several religious holidays....not to mention prime unit camping season.

 

Am a bit surprised by the few comments after over 80 views of the original post.  

 

More troubling though is that half appear to have wanted the break, and still continue to pound the drums of negativity and conjecture.

 

To me, this shows a total lack of Scout Spirit, and is truly disappointing.

 

Oh please. The members of this forum often trade in information they see and hear, and what Stosh and I have posted is no different. My LDS contact (the guy who hosts our district and is fairly high up in the LDS scouting side) said that he received word this response was a temporary measure until the LDS church can figure out what it wants to do long term. The boys are beginning a new cycle (new program year) and LDS did not want to go off half-cocked (like BSA does too often) and pull the plug without something to take its place AND a transition plan to get boys bridged to the new program.

 

Speaking for myself, I don't care if they go or stay as it does not affect my unit. But part of me would like to see them stand their ground and show BSA they made a very bad decision. There's plenty of a "total lack of scout spirit" on both sides of this argument for you to be disappointed about.

So my son and his den, who will be crossing in January, will be under the new book and the new program then..... right?

 

 

Yes. Although the word on this forum has been that the new handbook will come out IN January, so it is possible that there may be some days between your son joining the troop and the appearance of the new handbook. 

 

The BSA rep on that podcast said January 16th which is a Saturday.

We have a page which is our marketing brochure. We follow the BSA social media guidelines about posting, pictures and contact. It's run by a few ASMs and our Historian. The latter has a group account which is a generic account which can only admin the page. Not tied directly to the scout but through an alias.

 

Don't use groups because we have SOAR which has a newsletter and email lists which we have found more effective for our size group.

great news, I'm happy and hopeful we can all work together for the sake of the boys.

 

The rumor is that this is a temporary move until LDS can solidify a youth program they can get behind 100%. From what I just heard I don't expect this "support" to last.

The LDS church has officially decided to continue with Boy Scouts.  

 

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-to-go-forward-with-scouting-program?cid=social_20150826_51467126&adbid=10153389426257013&adbpl=fb&adbpr=53305042012

 

Wow!

Certain certifications are needed to maintain accreditation in various fields.  One takes the basic course and is qualified, but then so many "continuing education" hours are needed to maintain it.  I can see doing X number of hours per year to maintain one's trained status and that could be handled very nicely at RT, UofS, summer camp, camporees, etc. when the people are already in attendance or have a reason for attending in the first place.  

 

I could see if RTs offered WRFA or CPR/AED or climbing or RSO training. In my area these are done by units, not district or council, so the training offered is really nothing more than I can get online. To drive to RT and back is a waste. I'd go if they had better training.

Room and board is part of the compensation. And, it is seasonal work!

 

Still...a tent on a crate with institutional food. That cannot be worth the difference between the options available to most scouts.

 

At $7.25/hour on a 40 hour week, kids can earn nearly $290/week working a 40 hour week or $2600 over 9 weeks (before taxes). Compare that with earning $75/week for 6 weeks or so at camp you earn roughly $500 before taxes. When you add in these kids at camp work well more than a 40 hour week, this is REALLY low...and a very good reason NOT to staff a council camp unless you 1) really have to because you have few options, or 2) really like council camps, food, accommodations, etc.

 

I have staffed council and national camps in my youth. The wages were better then and more competitive than staying home and working. Seems the gaps has gotten wider, which means the best staffers are working at Cinemark rather than Camp [insert name here].

 I would suggest not starting a new unit then.  One doesn't get the choice on having the numbers for a while.  There's a lot to be said about coasting along on other people's program building and building one of one's own.  Whole different skill set to consider. 

 

Yes, it would be nice to have the numbers.  Yes it would be nice to have the older boys to teach.  Yes it would be nice to have some track record of what works for the group and what doesn't.  Yes it would be nice to have an over abundant reserve in the treasury. Yes it would be nice to have all the equipment to do a nice campout.  Yes it would be nice to have a lot of what others simply take for granted because their programs have been entrenched and operational for many years.

 

 

I've done the new Crew start-up. That was less pressure to succeed because in my area many crews fail in the first year and few have more than 5-10 scouts. We have 20 and run it essentially like the old Leadership Corps. It's is more a Venture Patrol than a Crew. Format worked for us and allowed the guys to give back to the main unit.

 

Starting a whole new troop is well beyond my patience level. I take my hat off to all who try.

Hmm, so it's all on the boys. I don't know stosh, there are a lot of successful boy run troops around. Sometimes failure is the result of adult leaders just doing it wrong. Not all adults have what it takes to run a troop. Obviously nobody here can know how you really run your program, but even the best of us change and tune our programs to meet the boys needs. 

 

Barry

 

Good point. And those of us who can run a good larger program might not have the skills to build and grow a smaller program. I know I can run a medium to large program and keep it thriving. I don't know that I have the skills/patience to do the same for a smaller one.

Forgot to add that Roundtable is where the updated info should be given out

 

Why RT? If BSA is moving in to the 21 Century with STEM, electronic MB books and other things, can't we get away from paper distribution of information and the incessant need to have meetings when an electronic communication, virtual RT or some other form of communication would be 1) more effective, and 2) less time consuming?

 

If folks REALLY want to have a RT -- presumably for social reasons -- let them have it, but don't hold those who don't want to go hostage by making it the only place to get certain information. If RTs are going to shake this reputation they need to stand on their own as a quality product. 

Thanks but I am still hoping someone can provide a rationale for all these variations. What I'm reading is more evidence of still more variations of how this is handled. No one seems to know 'why' we do it all the different the ways we do it except that for unknown (or unexplained) reasons, we've always done it this (whatever) way.  The term 'arbitrary' is coming to mind.

Didn't this post answer why?

 

http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/27578-how-does-your-district-handle-eagle-references/?p=423738

 

The GTA provides a rough set of guidelines but not a definitive process or outcome. I think that's why there is no standard across councils. Otherwise I am sure the knowledgeable folks here would have pointed that out.

Nothing.  New requirements only kick in AFTER 2016 and after they complete their current rank.  At that time, we'd let them know about the new requirements.

I thought this too. Yesterday I was doing my 5k through the woods and listening to the BSA August podcast. The lady on the podcast said this:

 

- the requirements kick in January 1, 2016.

- New requirements take effect for webelos crossing over in 2016 immediately.

- Any scout not yet Fisrt Class can continue to work on First Class (and all lower ranks) using the old requirements. As soon as they make First Class they MUST use the new requirements for Star and beyond. So if you complete First Class in May 2016 you have to use the new requirements for Star.

- Any scout ABOVE First Class on January 1, 2016 can continue to use the old requirements to complete their current rank. After they earn that rank they MUST use the new requirements for the next rank. So if a scout earns Life in April 2016 he MUST use the new requirements for Eagle.

 

I was under the impression 2016 was a "transition year" and we had to use the requirements for everyone starting December 31, 2016. That does not appear to be the case. We need to start using them NEXT year, and at different times depending on the scout's rank. That will make the admin burden FAR GREATER than expected.

75 dollars a week? Wow, I thought they'd make more by now. As a junior staffer at summer camp ('78) I made 25 dollars a week, with a ten dollar raise per week for each subsequent year I was rehired. My third and final summer on staff, I made 45 dollars a week. A glorious sum! Looks like the BSA is really fighting to control costs, and so they are holding the line on those outrageous camp staff salaries .

 

No wonder the staff is suspect. At those rates who would take such a job but the truly desperate. The high-end scouts we want teaching scout craft or first year scouts are life guarding or at private outfitters making minimum wage.

 

So do I have this right? Councils fall under non discrimination laws at their camps but not minimum wage laws? How crazy is that?

I've always been puzzled by this.  It would save a lot of nickel and diming along with at least some of the push to sell popcorn if the Councils could just charge some of what it actually costs to run the council.

Lord no! Not until there's accountability to run councils properly.

Then you have a seasonal Camp Director (usually a junior DE, often a random business/non-profit leadership major with no scouting background) who actually tries run the summer camp program (but has to split time with their district responsibilities, and try to keep their family/personal life functional). 

 

This explains a lot about why summer camps are not as well run as they could be.

Good districts have good volunteer leadership- leaders who can develop a consensus about district goals and can convince others that they - the others - want to cooperate to  achieve the district objectives.

 

But what does this mean? How does any of this help the units? How does any of this further the goal of scouting? From my experience "district goals" have been more around JTE than anything substantial felt at the unit level.

 

I was looking for concrete program ideas and execution by "good districts" which help the units.