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BSA can't pull this off for a number of reasons. First, there are so few WRFA classes held right now. I live in a major metro area. We have one troop that teaches WFRA 1-2 times a year. There are a few other groups that do but finding their info and getting a spot is tough enough now, imagine if this was mandatory for all activities. They would have to offer ten-fold more classes in numerous locations and multiple times per year. BSA is barely equipped to offer IOLS more than once a year. Now add in cub leaders to this mix.
 

If true this would go down the most poorly thought out idea from BSA in a long while. 

And how can this topic NOT be in I&P?

Now if someone had posted something about Scott Walker ice climbing McKinley for charity that'd be in I&P before you hit "post".

I wonder if they'll rename Mt. Kennedy in 2085 after his contribution to the office is forgotten.

I guess the golf courses were closed. 

I went to district the pack is failing very low numbers and I think the CO really does not care.  I did report the AS not having a background check and being wanted for a sex offence to our district executive and he has had enough and basically told us we could start recruiting out of there school so I am just waiting to see what happens

Good. I hope the district/council does something. That's not a situation they can let go.

The new requirements will not necessarily be effective with the "next rank". It depends on what rank the Scout is working on on Jan. 1, 2016. If that rank is Scout, First Class, Star or Life, then yes, for the "next rank" (Tenderfoot, Star, Life or Eagle respectively) they must start using the new requirements. But if the rank they are working on is Tenderfoot or Second Class, they may continue to use the old requirements until they make First Class.

During 2016 only, though.

If you are Tenderfoot on January 1, 2016 you may continue to use the 2015 requirements for SC and FC until December 31, 2016. If you don't make FC by then you MUST use the 2016 requirements. Same goes for any rank. If go the entire 2016 without completing your "current" rank requirements under which you were grandfathered with the old requirements, you must use the 2016 requirements as of 1/1/17.

At least that's how the BSA guide reads to me.

Councils in my experience pretty much echo the opinions of the community around them.. 

Total opposite experience. They are run by paid staff who do what they think those who they report to want. The ones I have interacted with see us (volunteers/members) as the sheep they lead.

I was in a dysfunctional pack when my son was a tiger.  I at first though it was lack of support form the parents.  I was complaining and thinking of leaving the pack.  I started to watch the leader training and a few videos and then read the scout oath and cam to the conclusion that I should try to help instead of just complaining I want a good program for my son so I stepped up became a den leader and had a great time. I started to work with the CC and tried to make thing better giving her tips on how to do stuff started planning stuff and the CC would just move right alone and do what she wanted to do. The CC would also pick and choose what rules she waned to follow she never submitted the Assistant Cub Master for the background check because he had a domestic violence  charge on his record.  Now three years latter I see his picture on the local police most wanted he is wanted for 4 counts of sexual assault against a minor.   I quickly realized were the problem was and the only way to fix it was to get her out of that position since her husband was the cub master and they both were members of the chartered organization.  there was nothing I could do I was new to scouting and had no clue what do. I left the pack for one down the street and have been having fun ever since.  

 

 

 

Basically for me if I do not like something that is going on I try to help and fix it (fight). If I find out I am not able to fix it I leave (flight)

Hopefully you reported the problem to the CO, no?

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/faculty_sites/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

 

My main point is that the recent changes in the BSA were driven from within.  The BSA has resisted any outside pressure now for over a generation.  I don't believe the majority of councils ever wanted an exclusive membership.

As we have seen, what the councils want is not what the membership wants.

@@desertrat77 We've got a few threads about districts, councils, national and their BSA operating model. The most recent one not in I&P is here and I posted my summation of what I think is wrong there.

BSA wants to address change. They create STEM. They eliminate the most controversial portion of their membership policy. They tinker with courting urban youth. They open the program to women and girls. They start Venturing (from Explorers). BSA *seems* to embrace change -- albeit very misguided and poorly implemented many times. So why do they continue to hold on to a business operating model with councils and districts which many, many people know does not work?

The dichotomy in thinking is staggering UNLESS you explain the reluctance to do so with the self-preservation argument of the paid BSA staff. Then you can clearly explain why they continue to feed the sacred cow.

And as you say, what little of that is district level, could be done at the council level..... in fact everything I can think of is duplicated.  The district pinewood derby is followed by the council derby.  The district cuboree is exactly the same experience you can get at a couple district run events through the year at the council's camp.

 

It really does seem to boil down to another redundant level in middle management, to use a business analogy.....

You boiled down my point well. I hate to come off as a nay-sayer, but I have lived through this duplicated middle management for years and years. It is exactly that: a waste of money. No unit in my area needs district or council except for paperwork processing. Do that online and we would not even need them for that. We can get gear from Scoutstuff faster and without the drive to/from to pick it up.

Before it got moved to I&P (where it died) we were talking about how to fix the district/council model since many do think it is broken and redundant in another thread. With many companies moving to "the cloud" and pushing business processes (think: paperwork and manual tasks that could be automated) to centralized, consolidated functions, BSA continues to maintain a business operating model that does not fit its mission, nor the modern times.

They're all too willing to change the political climate within the organization, why not change their operating model? The reason, I think, is self-preservation of their JOBS and NOT what is best for the organization. If Gates was a REAL change agent (he's not, from a business perspective) he'd make the hard choice to re-organize BSA to a more efficient model and not continue the current model.

ROFL Calico, when has BSA EVER gotten a program change right?

You can continue to throw those of us think council or districts are useless under the bus, but the evidence against them is pretty clear. They're useless and BSA, with their six figure leaders, *is* a group of money grubbing parasites. If they're not please offer evidence to the contrary.

....or a rock.

@ya lazima vumbi sorry you missed a pretty clear argument. Don't know how to make it any clearer for you. Communication methods and changes in the scouting program are not the same thing.

The problem is not the District but rather those scout leaders who really do not have a clue how a council and district are supposed to work hand in hand in delivering the program to the youth. True in too many councils the only priorities are money and numbers and nothing else and that is where the conflicts and animosity begins.

Some of the complainers here I think feel that it is the council's job to do everything to make a unit succeed rather than take responsibility for their unit leaders who do not go to training and do the absolute minimum in delivering an exciting program to the youth.

No. Those complaining here think the council and district should help units that need it. Why else would they exist?

Let's see, I'm going to need some rope to make this tripod lashing, like a lot of it. And I guess I'll have to figure out how big it needs to be, whatever. How do I start this again? Something called a clove hitch, or whatever....might as well get started...wait, there's an app for this I think,,,just need to find it....

But first let me take a selfie!

Yeah, that cleared up your point. 

The use of new communication tools (phone, two-way radios, email, instant messaging, text messaging) has nothing to do with the traditional delivery of the scout outdoor program. The adaptation of these tools does not mean that the people delivering scouting in the traditional manner are Luddites for not embracing changes to the program itself. They are two totally different concepts.

The word from BSA was "soon".

I'd take the existing online training and wait for the new stuff then take that too. I don't suspect it will be that different. It rarely is.

Our Science club has more middle school participants than Scouting.  Our Science fair has more contestants than Scouting.  Our community college offers a summer Science camp that has more campers than Scouting.  You can mock the after-school Science programs all you want, but numbers wise, they're beating the heck out of Scouting.

No one is mocking them. We're saying if BSA gets involved they way they usually roll out something it wil be expensive and cumbersome.

Interesting comparison between this thread and the one about 'how we failed'. Here we're talking about communications and praising FB, etc. Yet the skills we try to focus on in the program are the equivalent of semaphore or Morse Code.

So to satisfy the question of the other thread, perhaps we should try to imagine what goes through the mind of a boy who is waving a flag while his phone ringtone is telling him to check the next tweet. And then we wonder why scouting's niche is getting smaller and smaller.

Two totally different topics. You can maintain the quality, direction and tradition of a program while introducing new tools with which to manage the program.

You think this discussion popped up in the 50s or 60s on how to use the phone? A chainsaw? Dehydrated meals? Other technological innovations?

Apples and oranges.

....or organize in to labs, get a lab partner, get a Petrie dish, culture some bacteria, turn on a burner and get some science on.

Kids from that part of the country are ready by 12. We do a ton of HA here. He's over qualified.

The rest of the costs (gear and other consumables) come out of dues and fundraising.  We don't pay for gas for the cars unless it is a really long trip (e.g. more than 300 miles round trip). 

Interesting approach. Our unit had a whole bunch of former tax or CPA types so every event was made to pay for itself. This process was done a long time ago as part of the PMMB and just extended out from there. Our camp out costs are slightly higher than yours, but it includes gas reimbursement. Fund raising goes totally to summer camp or high adventure. The budget is reconciled at the end of the year to see how the boys did. They are usually pretty close.

  The current generation wants to be notified via instagram or phone texts.  We haven't figured out how to do that yet.

Try "Remind". It is a free service. Our PLC came up with the idea and the adults picked up on it. They use it in schools when teachers wants to send out reminders, etc. Try it. It works well.

Bad Wolf, nobody has been "silenced." And anyone looking for the topic can still find it since there is a "redirect" in the Training section.

 

I would also say that on a personal note, the melodrama when a moderator makes a judgment call, including phrases like "silence debate", is really not necessary.

...nor is moving a thread to I&P that is not taking a political tone. Heck, you could move 3/4 of the current threads there using that definition. The reasoning for the move is silly. Just sayin'.