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Posts posted by molscouter

  1. Nah. The endless appeals would take too long. This KKK Nazi ought to get along well with the gang population found in most correctional facilities; 3 life sentences in one of them should suffice.


    Given the nature of the crime, federal civil rights charges would appear to be in order, conviction for which might merit a trip to the Federal Pen at Leavenworth.

  2. A strict reading and enforcement of that school district's Code of Conduct would result in the suspension of any kid who rides a bike to school (bike chains are named on the banned list) and should result in the suspension of any high schooler who drives a car to school (more than likely has a tire iron in the trunk).

  3. jet,


    To be fair, the original post said the kid would turn 10 on October 14. I don't know how it is in your neck of the woods, but around here, the cut off date is Sept. 1, so if you are just starting out in kindergarten and you turn 5 on Sept 2, you wait a year until you are almost 6 and are 6 for most of your kindergarten year. So a 4th grader with an October birthday would turn 10 as a rule.


    I loved your "My-parents-didn't-start-me-in-school-like-normal-kids-so-that-I-would-always-be-older-than-anyone-else-in-my-class-and-I-would-have-the-illusion-of-being-special" line though. Far too many of my sons' classmates should, if you go by the cut off date, be a year ahead of where they are in school but aren't because they have summer birthdays.(This message has been edited by molscouter)

  4. If your area works anything like ours, the answer is likely to be it depends. My son's Scoutmaster has been around for a long time and knows a lot of people. He has been exposed to Scouts from many troops in our area through Eagle Boards, OA, etc., and has formed opinions on the standards of those troops and how they do things. I am quite certain that if my son were to have gone camping with certain troops, the Scoutmaster would have said no problem and signed off almost immediatly. There are other troops that there is no way that this would have happened, there would very much be a show-me attitude.

  5. This could prove somewhat interesting for the new First Class requirement on practicing LNT on each of your 10 outings unless they give some sort of grace period. Are they going to require a kid who has been on any of the required 10 activities to go back and recount how he practiced LNT on them or does he just have to do it for the last one(s)? I'm sure guidance will be given, I just hope they've though that out.


    (This message has been edited by molscouter)

  6. Is the fact that the council seemingly did not follow procedure an additional appealable point?


    Get a look at what was/is being forwarded ASAP (hopefully it has not been forwarded already). They are stacking the deck against you at National.(This message has been edited by molscouter)

  7. The answer to your last question is no. The BOR (with the possible exception of Eagle) is a troop function. One of the purposes of a BOR is to see how the youth views how the troop is doing. That cannot be done via another troop. In the case of an extremely small troop, I could see times where a Scouter from another unit may be asked to sit in (I know it's not by the book, but I said a very small unit who may not have 3 committee members available), but the BOR must be as fully unit based as possible.


    80 kids and quarterly BORs make absolutely no sense whatsoever, either from the boys' view nor from the committee's. You say you are on the committee, at the next committee meeting, push for a monthly schedule (on demand would be better, but one step at a time). With 80 kids, you certainly should have enough committee people to set up some sort of rotating schedule.


    One final question, does the Scoutmaster only do SM Conferences once a quarter as well?

  8. In one of your first posts you said something along the lines of the SM hold 3 positions in the district/council. Given that, I am not surprised at the outcome of the district appeal level. I would also not be shocked at a similar result at the council level. There are insiders and there are others, and your SM apparently is an insider. They are protecting their own.


    The participation percentage aspects are going to net them nothing at the national level. The troop/district/council (should they use the same reasoning) is plain wrong on this one, and will be told so. The spirit part may be a slight issue; should the council level appeal fail, you may wish to quietly gather some statements (in writing) from a few of the more mature scouts involved in the incident for use in an appeal to National. I say quietly because I could see coercion coming into play if it's done too overtly.


    And as someone said, I would definitely be looking for a transfer for son #2, and I would be looking at a troop that does not currently have "insider" leadership.

  9. We didn't do anything at the May Pack Meeting specifically for the new Webelos IIs, but we did do something at the Boy Scout crossover ceremony in March. We had had an arrow mounted on a stand, then had the "graduating" Webelos present to the Webelos I den as a reminder to keep their eyes on the Arrow of Light and as a symbol that they were now the Boy Leaders of the Pack.

  10. "I disagree; the bible is not clear on the issue, and difference Christian sects have widely different opinions."


    Merlyn, not every court decision is unanimous. While in case of the courts, majority rules, it still could be interpretted to mean the various rulings are not clear either. Interesting that you seem to want to pounce on disagreements about interpretations of the Bible, but accept majority rules in other cases when it suits your purpose.

    (This message has been edited by molscouter)

  11. Ed,


    Reread what I wrote. I said I understand why BSA is asking for it, because they are conducting credit and background checks.


    My point was there numerous entities that ask for it as a matter of practice for no good reason and those are the one's who I object to giving it to. The doctor's office I mentioned is one example. One of my local grocery stores asks for it to obtain their discount card (the grapes are $3.00/lb, but if you have this card they're $2.00/lb). They can't tell me why, just that they need it. Is my money any better if they've checked my credit. They will accept my cash/check/credit/debit card either way; it's not affecting my ability to shop there.(This message has been edited by molscouter)

  12. evmori said


    "Yeah pack, us bankers are dangerous!


    If it's required, ya gotta supply it! Plain & simple! There are 1001 ways for people to steal your identity! But you have to have something worth stealing!"


    Ed, who's to say it's required. In this case I understand, BSA is doing a background check and that's how credit agencies and government agencies track things. But most of the time, it's not necessary. Every time I go to the doctor, they ask for my SSN. They say the insurance company requires it. I say, no they don't, just submit it. And you know what, the insurance company processes the claim every time with no problems. Many states used to have your SSN as Drivers License number; they don't do that anymore. Why should private entities be allowed to?

  13. No, it's not proper to turn a kid down at a BOR if they don't feel he has met the requirements for a merit badge. Once a MB counselor has said he met it, he's met it. It would be overturned on appeal in a heartbeat. I'm assuming, of course, that the Board followed procedures by telling the boy he had the option of appeal (silly assumption I'm pretty sure). Your board seems to view their role as preventing advancement.


    As for remembering something specific on a requirement from x years ago, Ask the Advancement Chair what he had for lunch on such and such a date 2-3 weeks ago. If he/she can't do that, ...


    (This message has been edited by molscouter)

  14. Then we're back to the question of what POR's he held as a Star Scout and for how long. If he was, say, Scribe for 6 months and then APL for 6 months, that should have counted. The BOR would have been wrong in denying him (assuming his performance was up to par) and maybe there are some grounds for appeal there. If all he had was APL, he has no shot.


    It still goes back to him not taking responsibilty for his advancement. He should have gone to the SM and asked about the project option.

  15. From July to October for a Board? That's ridiculous. That being said, no, there is no hope. If I read this correctly, he still is not yet a Star Scout. Minimum time from Star to Eagle is one year. Even if he had gotten the Board the same night as his SM Conference, it still would not have been enough time.


    As far as the Position of Responsibility, first, it's 4 months for Star, not 6. Second, it does not have to be the months immediately before the Board of review, it can be anytime after he earned First Class. This won't help him, but maybe it will help some other Scout in the troop. Finally, he really should have known the requirements for what positions count and which ones don't. He's almost 18 and didn't know? His advancement is his responsibility, not the troop's.

  16. They say Reagan and Tip O'Neill fought like alley cats during the day and then sat down and had a couple of drinks at night. Probably not true, but the two men respected each other, even though there wasn't a lot they agreed on politically.


    My theory on the lack of political discourse and civility that has blossomed over the past 25 years or so is generational, and the fact that those of the Greatest Generation are no longer real players in the Government. They grew up during the Depression. People had to work together to get throught that. Then came World War II, another uniting cause. No matter how you felt politically, you respected the guy next to you, because you needed him at your back and vice versa (not excluding the women here, but politics in those days was mostly a male game). Reagan and O'Neill were products of that era, although older, Eisenhower and Stevenson lived them as well. Lyndon Johnson and Everett Dirksen had the same relationship in the Senate. Respect.


    The next genration of politicians were Boomers and had no such unifying events. Hence, the "me" attitude that to many of us show, especially our politicians, and in my opinion, the I'm right, your absolutely wrong attitude that exists today.

    (This message has been edited by molscouter)

  17. The Hennipen Canal is not just Sheffield, it stretches some 100 miles from Central Illinois to the Mississippi River. All of it will be closed. On a personal note, the troop I serve has used it quite often for canoeing.


    As for the political aspects, amazingly (tongue firmly in cheek), none of these are located in the greater Chicago area. Most are in the Republican portions of the state. And the money saved will go to: funding more police in Chicago. While a worthy goal, I fail to see why somebody living in Rock Island (170 miles away) or Cairo, which is nearly 400 miles away, should be funding that.

  18. Sounds to me like they could use some training. THE BSA website has an on-line modules on BORs. You can download a .pdf version for them to use at:



    Beyond that, by BSA policy, when a Scout "fails" a board of review, the reasons must be provided to him in writing. Also, the appeal process must be explained to him. The board needs to be reminded that this is part of their duties. In the case of the Star Scout, his denial the first time would have been overturned in a heartbeat at the district level, since tieing a bowline is not a requirement for Star.


    While I know a BOR is not supposed to be an exam, I am not adverse to asking a few exam type questions, not for the purpose of passing or failing the Scout, but to detect trends. One Scout who can't tie a bowline is not a big deal, multiple ones who can't indicate a program issue.

  19. Jambo is essentially a long term camp, 6 nights could be counted once. I would differentiate that from a Philmont or Boundry Waters trek, where you are moving everything each day and spending the night at a different place every night (or maybe once in a while, you might spend 2 nights in the same place in the BW). To me, those are 4, 5, 6, etc., separate nights.(This message has been edited by molscouter)

  20. Ditto to all that has been said above.


    Not that it should be foremost on anyone's mind right now, but the news stories make it sound as if many of these young men should be nominated for and be awarded one of the meritous action awards sometime in the near future.(This message has been edited by molscouter)

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